Faith/Works

[slaney4]

The book of James is one of the most important topics to cover when it comes to faith and works. James is believed by many people to contradict Paul, especially in the book of Romans, making the case that works are an essential component to be the evidence of our faith.

While James writes that faith without works is dead, just as the body without the spirit is dead, Paul states that he who does work will not be made righteous; however, those who do not work but believe in him who justifies the ungodly, their faith is counted as righteousness (Romans 4:4-5).

Both Paul and James become clear that they do not contradict each other but how do they agree without excluding one of these two concepts? Since both of them believe that grace comes through faith alone, works would not add to that according to James, who writes:

“You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

He presents the point that even demons believe in the existence of God, so how can works apart from faith be useless? Depending on how you interpret the context of what James says and how Abraham was justified by works, we can settle to a point with Paul. Whereas faith without works is dead only in the eyes of men, not in the eyes of God.

If that is the case, how is faith made evident according to what other parts of scripture says about the fruit of the spirit? Most people believe that the fruit of the spirit (or works) means to gradually abandon sin or, by having corresponding actions, to go along with our faith.

One of the most common reasons why people believe you must still abandon sin is told in John’s epistle: “No one who abides in him makes a practice of sinning; for whoever is born of God does not sin; you cannot keep on sinning by being in him.” Since he appeared in order to take away our transgressions, there is no sin in our new creation that’s within us, but as for our mortal body, sin still exists daily; it is part of our natural human tendency.

So works never involve deeds of the law as evidence of faith. Whether good works can signify our faith is another matter to look at further. As for our sinful nature, which has broken the laws of God, that is what the cross was for—to replace us from dying in the flesh—by his work alone, so we can live free according to the spirit.

If Christ’s righteousness is applied to us, then how can the law itself ever negate self-righteous effort? For if you mix the law together, what grace could you receive if Christ didn’t cover it fully? By his atoning sacrifice, his death, after living a perfect life, was sufficient enough to cover the full penalty. What works can add any value to that establishment for us on earth? We were called to be like him through only one way that can grow. Therefore, we should always look to spread his word through the willingness of the holy spirit.

In free grace theology, contrary to lordship salvation (where one must submit to God), opposes that we must gradually obey the law through the process of sanctification.

We are to allow him to save us from those consequences. But in order that he will, how must we prove our belief for his word to reside in us?

Neither do good works or deeds of the law ever lay the foundation of our faith; all works are as filthy rags, as stated in the book of Isaiah:

“All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like a polluted garment” (v. 64:6).​

However, those without corresponding actions may have denied him by not living according to the heart of the gospel teachings. Only by the fruit of this spirit — love, peace, joy, kindness, patience and forbearance — can faith become evident (Galatians 5:22 etc.). Those are the corresponding points to what Paul and James taught on the doctrine of justification.

 

[Manasseh]

The book of James is one of the most important topics to cover when it comes to faith and works. James is believed by many people to contradict Paul, especially in the book of Romans, making the case that works are an essential component to be the evidence of our faith.

While James writes that faith without works is dead, just as the body without the spirit is dead, Paul states that he who does work will not be made righteous; however, those who do not work but believe in him who justifies the ungodly, their faith is counted as righteousness (Romans 4:4-5).

Both Paul and James become clear that they do not contradict each other but how do they agree without excluding one of these two concepts? Since both of them believe that grace comes through faith alone, works would not add to that according to James, who writes:

“You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

He presents the point that even demons believe in the existence of God, so how can works apart from faith be useless? Depending on how you interpret the context of what James says and how Abraham was justified by works, we can settle to a point with Paul. Whereas faith without works is dead only in the eyes of men, not in the eyes of God.

If that is the case, how is faith made evident according to what other parts of scripture says about the fruit of the spirit? Most people believe that the fruit of the spirit (or works) means to gradually abandon sin or, by having corresponding actions, to go along with our faith.

One of the most common reasons why people believe you must still abandon sin is told in John’s epistle: “No one who abides in him makes a practice of sinning; for whoever is born of God does not sin; you cannot keep on sinning by being in him.” Since he appeared in order to take away our transgressions, there is no sin in our new creation that’s within us, but as for our mortal body, sin still exists daily; it is part of our natural human tendency.

So works never involve deeds of the law as evidence of faith. Whether good works can signify our faith is another matter to look at further. As for our sinful nature, which has broken the laws of God, that is what the cross was for—to replace us from dying in the flesh—by his work alone, so we can live free according to the spirit.

If Christ’s righteousness is applied to us, then how can the law itself ever negate self-righteous effort? For if you mix the law together, what grace could you receive if Christ didn’t cover it fully? By his atoning sacrifice, his death, after living a perfect life, was sufficient enough to cover the full penalty. What works can add any value to that establishment for us on earth? We were called to be like him through only one way that can grow. Therefore, we should always look to spread his word through the willingness of the holy spirit.

In free grace theology, contrary to lordship salvation (where one must submit to God), opposes that we must gradually obey the law through the process of sanctification.

We are to allow him to save us from those consequences. But in order that he will, how must we prove our belief for his word to reside in us?

Neither do good works or deeds of the law ever lay the foundation of our faith; all works are as filthy rags, as stated in the book of Isaiah:


However, those without corresponding actions may have denied him by not living according to the heart of the gospel teachings. Only by the fruit of this spirit — love, peace, joy, kindness, patience and forbearance — can faith become evident (Galatians 5:22 etc.). Those are the corresponding points to what Paul and James taught on the doctrine of justification.

Thanks for posting this.

I have heard grace and mercy described in the following way; Grace is when God gives to us that which we did not deserve (His Holy Spirit), and Mercy is when He does not give to us that which we do deserve (eternal separation).

Not all redeemed men will receive the same measure of grace. But all redeemed men will receive a sufficient measure of grace to save them.

All redeemed men will bear fruit, but not all redeemed men will bear the same fruit, in quality or quantity.

I rejoice with my brother King David, that Yahweh is mindful of my frame, and that my Redeemer lives.

Spiro's Zodhiates has a wonderful three volume commentary on the book of James. He covers this topic quite well. It's a difficult commentary to find, but well worth it if that sort of thing interests you.

I believe it is necessary to strive to do the will and works of God, not for salvation, but to gain a deeper understanding of the salvation we have been blessed with. The more I strive to be like Christ, the more I realize just how desperate my situation would be without Him. And the more like Christ I become (a very long and painful process), the more I realize just how unlike Him I actually am, and again, how desperate my situation without Him.

We should be generous with the Grace and Mercy of Christ. And we should be very wary of anyone who tries to imply that the shed blood of Jesus Christ is insufficient to save even the worst of sinners, or the best of Christians, which in my humble estimation, is pretty much the same thing.

We all need Christ, some of us recognize that need a little stronger than others. Some only recognize this need in others, and that's the problem as I see it.

 

[mailmandan]

There are no contradictions in God's word. The harmony of Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:24 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul, when he uses the term, refers to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the sinner as righteous. James, however, is using the term to describe those who would show the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do.

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

 

[Bruce Leiter]

The book of James is one of the most important topics to cover when it comes to faith and works. James is believed by many people to contradict Paul, especially in the book of Romans, making the case that works are an essential component to be the evidence of our faith.

While James writes that faith without works is dead, just as the body without the spirit is dead, Paul states that he who does work will not be made righteous; however, those who do not work but believe in him who justifies the ungodly, their faith is counted as righteousness (Romans 4:4-5).

Both Paul and James become clear that they do not contradict each other but how do they agree without excluding one of these two concepts? Since both of them believe that grace comes through faith alone, works would not add to that according to James, who writes:

“You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

He presents the point that even demons believe in the existence of God, so how can works apart from faith be useless? Depending on how you interpret the context of what James says and how Abraham was justified by works, we can settle to a point with Paul. Whereas faith without works is dead only in the eyes of men, not in the eyes of God.

If that is the case, how is faith made evident according to what other parts of scripture says about the fruit of the spirit? Most people believe that the fruit of the spirit (or works) means to gradually abandon sin or, by having corresponding actions, to go along with our faith.

One of the most common reasons why people believe you must still abandon sin is told in John’s epistle: “No one who abides in him makes a practice of sinning; for whoever is born of God does not sin; you cannot keep on sinning by being in him.” Since he appeared in order to take away our transgressions, there is no sin in our new creation that’s within us, but as for our mortal body, sin still exists daily; it is part of our natural human tendency.

So works never involve deeds of the law as evidence of faith. Whether good works can signify our faith is another matter to look at further. As for our sinful nature, which has broken the laws of God, that is what the cross was for—to replace us from dying in the flesh—by his work alone, so we can live free according to the spirit.

If Christ’s righteousness is applied to us, then how can the law itself ever negate self-righteous effort? For if you mix the law together, what grace could you receive if Christ didn’t cover it fully? By his atoning sacrifice, his death, after living a perfect life, was sufficient enough to cover the full penalty. What works can add any value to that establishment for us on earth? We were called to be like him through only one way that can grow. Therefore, we should always look to spread his word through the willingness of the holy spirit.

In free grace theology, contrary to lordship salvation (where one must submit to God), opposes that we must gradually obey the law through the process of sanctification.

We are to allow him to save us from those consequences. But in order that he will, how must we prove our belief for his word to reside in us?

Neither do good works or deeds of the law ever lay the foundation of our faith; all works are as filthy rags, as stated in the book of Isaiah:


However, those without corresponding actions may have denied him by not living according to the heart of the gospel teachings. Only by the fruit of this spirit — love, peace, joy, kindness, patience and forbearance — can faith become evident (Galatians 5:22 etc.). Those are the corresponding points to what Paul and James taught on the doctrine of justification.

I'm afraid that I got lost in your many words, slaney4. With my Bible studies and seminary education, I have come to understand that Paul and James define the word "faith" differently. James uses it in writing to Jewish Christians to mean "head knowledge about God." Therefore, he says that faith must be shown with good works.

On the other hand, as in Ephesians 2:1-10, Paul defines "faith" as both believing in and doing actions for God who re-creates us through faith by grace with the result being good works, all of which are to his credit:

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

 

[for_his_glory]

To say faith without works is dead is the same as saying faith without love is dead for the works we do unto the Lord are our labor of love for others as in Matthew 25:34-40. It's the same labor of love Christ did for us. Faith is action and if it has no fruit it is a false faith. James is not speaking about one who has faith, but one who claims to have faith. It's like giving lip service, but the heart is empty and void of God. Just because one claims to have faith doesn't mean they do, especially if there is no fruit to judge in them as that is how we judge one another, Matthew 7:15-23. We are saved by faith (Christ Jesus) through that of Gods grace (favor) as we can not earn it, but confess it.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[donadams]

1st we need the grace of Justification to be in union with Christ!

how does one obtain the grace of justification?

thks

 

[for_his_glory]

1st we need the grace of Justification to be in union with Christ!

how does one obtain the grace of justification?

thks

Justification is that of God's grace as only God can declare a sinner righteous, not based on our own merits, but through faith in Christ Jesus atoning sacrifice. Romans 3:24-26; 5:1-2

 

[JLB]

Both Paul and James become clear that they do not contradict each other but how do they agree without excluding one of these two concepts?

Amen.

 

[JLB]

The book of James is one of the most important topics to cover when it comes to faith and works. James is believed by many people to contradict Paul, especially in the book of Romans, making the case that works are an essential component to be the evidence of our faith.

While James writes that faith without works is dead, just as the body without the spirit is dead, Paul states that he who does work will not be made righteous; however, those who do not work but believe in him who justifies the ungodly, their faith is counted as righteousness (Romans 4:4-5).

Both Paul and James become clear that they do not contradict each other but how do they agree without excluding one of these two concepts? Since both of them believe that grace comes through faith alone, works would not add to that according to James, who writes:

“You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

He presents the point that even demons believe in the existence of God, so how can works apart from faith be useless? Depending on how you interpret the context of what James says and how Abraham was justified by works, we can settle to a point with Paul. Whereas faith without works is dead only in the eyes of men, not in the eyes of God.

If that is the case, how is faith made evident according to what other parts of scripture says about the fruit of the spirit? Most people believe that the fruit of the spirit (or works) means to gradually abandon sin or, by having corresponding actions, to go along with our faith.

One of the most common reasons why people believe you must still abandon sin is told in John’s epistle: “No one who abides in him makes a practice of sinning; for whoever is born of God does not sin; you cannot keep on sinning by being in him.” Since he appeared in order to take away our transgressions, there is no sin in our new creation that’s within us, but as for our mortal body, sin still exists daily; it is part of our natural human tendency.

So works never involve deeds of the law as evidence of faith. Whether good works can signify our faith is another matter to look at further. As for our sinful nature, which has broken the laws of God, that is what the cross was for—to replace us from dying in the flesh—by his work alone, so we can live free according to the spirit.

If Christ’s righteousness is applied to us, then how can the law itself ever negate self-righteous effort? For if you mix the law together, what grace could you receive if Christ didn’t cover it fully? By his atoning sacrifice, his death, after living a perfect life, was sufficient enough to cover the full penalty. What works can add any value to that establishment for us on earth? We were called to be like him through only one way that can grow. Therefore, we should always look to spread his word through the willingness of the holy spirit.

In free grace theology, contrary to lordship salvation (where one must submit to God), opposes that we must gradually obey the law through the process of sanctification.

We are to allow him to save us from those consequences. But in order that he will, how must we prove our belief for his word to reside in us?

Neither do good works or deeds of the law ever lay the foundation of our faith; all works are as filthy rags, as stated in the book of Isaiah:


However, those without corresponding actions may have denied him by not living according to the heart of the gospel teachings. Only by the fruit of this spirit — love, peace, joy, kindness, patience and forbearance — can faith become evident (Galatians 5:22 etc.). Those are the corresponding points to what Paul and James taught on the doctrine of justification.

The “works” James is referring to is the obedience of faith.

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26

 

[donadams]

Justification is that of God's grace as only God can declare a sinner righteous, not based on our own merits, but through faith in Christ Jesus atoning sacrifice. Romans 3:24-26; 5:1-2

we don't need to be born again?

thks

 

[for_his_glory]

we don't need to be born again?

thks

Of course we have to be Spiritually born again in order to inherit the Kingdom of God. It's all by faith in Christ Jesus that we have repented of our sins and are justified before God as we are made clean again by the blood of Jesus.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[Blain DeCastro]

It seems to me that they do not contradict each other rather they are speaking of two parts of works and faith Paul statiung that it is faith not works that save us and count us as righteous and James saying that works are the evidence or product of faith

Faith without works is dead after all

 

[GodsGrace]

It seems to me that they do not contradict each other rather they are speaking of two parts of works and faith Paul statiung that it is faith not works that save us and count us as righteous and James saying that works are the evidence or product of faith

Faith without works is dead after all

Hi Blain
I very much agree with you.
I DO wish we could elimnate the word EVIDENCE.

Why do we need to have evidence for our faith?
To whom are we offering the evidence?
If it to man or to God?

Does God require evidence?
Does He not know if we're saved or not?

Why can't it just be FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.
James 2:26

New International Version
As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

New Living Translation
Just as the body is dead without breath, so also faith is dead without good works.

English Standard Version
For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

Berean Standard Bible
As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

Berean Literal Bible
For just as the body apart from spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

King James Bible
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

New King James Version
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

New American Standard Bible
For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

NASB 1995
For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

NASB 1977
For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

Legacy Standard Bible
For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

Amplified Bible
For just as the [human] body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works [of obedience] is also dead.

Christian Standard Bible
For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

American Standard Version
For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, even so faith apart from works is dead.

Contemporary English Version
Anyone who doesn't breathe is dead, and faith that doesn't do anything is just as dead!

English Revised Version
For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, even so faith apart from works is dead.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
A body that doesn't breathe is dead. In the same way faith that does nothing is dead.

Good News Translation
So then, as the body without the spirit is dead, also faith without actions is dead.

International Standard Version
For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without actions is also dead.

NET Bible
For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

New Heart English Bible
For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, even so faith apart from works is dead.

Webster's Bible Translation
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Weymouth New Testament
For just as a human body without a spirit is lifeless, so also faith is lifeless if it is unaccompanied by obedience.
Majority Text Translations
Majority Standard Bible
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

World English Bible
For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, even so faith apart from works is dead.

 

[Blain DeCastro]

Hi Blain
I very much agree with you.
I DO wish we could elimnate the word EVIDENCE.

Why do we need to have evidence for our faith?
To whom are we offering the evidence?
If it to man or to God?

Does God require evidence?
Does He not know if we're saved or not?

Why can't it just be FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.
James 2:26

New International Version
As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

New Living Translation
Just as the body is dead without breath, so also faith is dead without good works.

English Standard Version
For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

Berean Standard Bible
As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

Berean Literal Bible
For just as the body apart from spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

King James Bible
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

New King James Version
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

New American Standard Bible
For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

NASB 1995
For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

NASB 1977
For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

Legacy Standard Bible
For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

Amplified Bible
For just as the [human] body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works [of obedience] is also dead.

Christian Standard Bible
For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

American Standard Version
For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, even so faith apart from works is dead.

Contemporary English Version
Anyone who doesn't breathe is dead, and faith that doesn't do anything is just as dead!

English Revised Version
For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, even so faith apart from works is dead.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
A body that doesn't breathe is dead. In the same way faith that does nothing is dead.

Good News Translation
So then, as the body without the spirit is dead, also faith without actions is dead.

International Standard Version
For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without actions is also dead.

NET Bible
For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

New Heart English Bible
For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, even so faith apart from works is dead.

Webster's Bible Translation
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Weymouth New Testament
For just as a human body without a spirit is lifeless, so also faith is lifeless if it is unaccompanied by obedience.
Majority Text Translations
Majority Standard Bible
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

World English Bible
For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, even so faith apart from works is dead.

Well the evidence is to shine our light to the world it is for the sake of the world that our evidence is to be shown

 

[GodsGrace]

Well the evidence is to shine our light to the world it is for the sake of the world that our evidence is to be shown

I agree with that.
It brings glory to God if someone knows that we profess to be Christian and then actually sees that faith in action.

Matthew 5:13-16
13 "You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how * can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men.
14 "You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot * be hidden;
15 nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.
16 "Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

 

[donadams]

Of course we have to be Spiritually born again in order to inherit the Kingdom of God. It's all by faith in Christ Jesus that we have repented of our sins and are justified before God as we are made clean again by the blood of Jesus.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

what water?

 

[for_his_glory]

what water?

It's Gods word that we are made righteous through Him, sanctified, justified and made Holy before Him. No dirty river water can save us, but is only an outward appearance to others that we have repented of our sins and have been washed clean (made righteous before God) by the blood of the Lamb and the renewing through the Holy Spirit.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Water in that verse means living water, not literal water. There are around 1526 instances of living water in the Bible. Here are some verses on living water being the word of God. John 4:4-26; 7:37-39; 12:44-50; Ephesians 5:26; 1 John 5:5-8; Jeremiah 17:13; Zechariah 14:8, 9; Rev 21:6-8; Ezekiel 47:22

 

[Bruce Leiter]

1st we need the grace of Justification to be in union with Christ!

how does one obtain the grace of justification?

thks

donadams, we obtain God's justification the moment we trust in Jesus' death and resurrection as the only way to the Father's acceptance. We have that justification as well the new birth the rest of our lives.

 

[donadams]

It's Gods word that we are made righteous through Him, sanctified, justified and made Holy before Him. No dirty river water can save us, but is only an outward appearance to others that we have repented of our sins and have been washed clean (made righteous before God) by the blood of the Lamb and the renewing through the Holy Spirit.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Water in that verse means living water, not literal water. There are around 1526 instances of living water in the Bible. Here are some verses on living water being the word of God. John 4:4-26; 7:37-39; 12:44-50; Ephesians 5:26; 1 John 5:5-8; Jeremiah 17:13; Zechariah 14:8, 9; Rev 21:6-8; Ezekiel 47:22

Isa 1:16-18

16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;

17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Ez 36:25-27

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


Baptismal Regeneration!

A) yes

or

B) no

The entire christian religion is a new creation in a new covenant!

The old creation was polluted by sin, God established a new creation, new covenant of righteousness by grace!

New creation in Christ!

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Regeneration!

Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

((Baptism the initiation in the new covenant))

"Baptismal regeneration"

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;


Those who oppose baptismal regeneration refuse to follow and are oppose to Christ and His new covenant religion and are a form of anti-religion!


spirit baptism?
born again ny the spirit alone?

no the apostolic church administers the grace of justification by water baptism! mt 28:19 water AND the spirit Jn 3:5

cannot enter Jn 3:5

2 Corinthians 8:19
And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:

2 pet 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

church fathers say being born again and regeneration are effected by the laver (washing) of the sacrament of baptism! acts1;8 & acts 2:42

Pope Pius XI, Quas Primas, on the Feast of Christ the King (#15): "The gospels present this kingdom as one which men prepare to enter by penance and cannot actually enter except by faith and by baptism, which, though an external rite, signifies and produces an interior regeneration."

Pope St. Leo the Great, dogmatic letter to Flavian, Council of Chalcedon, 451: “Let him heed what the blessed apostle Peter preaches, that sanctification by the Spirit is effected by the sprinkling of Christ’s blood (1 Pet. 1:2); and let him not skip over the same apostle’s words, knowing that you have been redeemed from the empty way of life you inherited from your fathers, not with corruptible gold and silver but by the precious blood of Jesus Christ, as of a lamb without stain or spot (1 Pet. 1:18). Nor should he withstand the testimony of blessed John the apostle: and the blood of Jesus, the Son of God, purifies us from every sin (1 Jn. 1:7); and again, This is the victory which conquers the world, our faith. Who is there who conquers the world save one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? It is He, Jesus Christ, who has come through water and blood, not in water only, but in water and blood. And because the Spirit is truth, it is the Spirit who testifies. For there are three who give testimony – Spirit and water and blood. And the three are one. (1 Jn. 5:4-8) in other words, the spirit of sanctification and the blood of redemption and the water of baptism. These three are one and remain indivisible. None of them is separable from its link with the others." mt 16:18-19 & mt 18:18 apostolic scripture gives authority to the apostolic church to bind all christians to believe the truth!

Acts 1:8 church fathers says the born again laver of regeneration (baptism) is the means of receiving the grace of justification!

But what a thing it is, to assert and contend that they who are not born in the Church can be the sons of God! For the blessed apostle sets forth and proves that baptism is that wherein the old man dies and the new man is born, saying, “He saved us by the washing of regeneration.”Tit. 3:5. But if regeneration is in the washing, that is, in baptism, how can heresy, which is not the spouse of Christ, generate sons to God by Christ? For it is the Church alone which, conjoined and united with Christ, spiritually bears sons; as the same apostle again says, “Christ loved the Church, and gave Himself for it, that He might sanctify it, cleansing it with the washing of water.”Eph. 5:25-26. If, then, she is the beloved and spouse who alone is sanctified by Christ, and alone is cleansed by His washing, it is manifest that heresy, which is not the spouse of Christ, nor can be cleansed nor sanctified by His washing, cannot bear sons to God.2901 St. Cyprian

eph 5:25-27

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, (faith and baptism)

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

 

[for_his_glory]

Isa 1:16-18

16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;

17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Ez 36:25-27

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


Baptismal Regeneration!

A) yes

or

B) no

The entire christian religion is a new creation in a new covenant!

The old creation was polluted by sin, God established a new creation, new covenant of righteousness by grace!

New creation in Christ!

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Regeneration!

Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

((Baptism the initiation in the new covenant))

"Baptismal regeneration"

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;


Those who oppose baptismal regeneration refuse to follow and are oppose to Christ and His new covenant religion and are a form of anti-religion!


spirit baptism?
born again ny the spirit alone?

no the apostolic church administers the grace of justification by water baptism! mt 28:19 water AND the spirit Jn 3:5

cannot enter Jn 3:5

2 Corinthians 8:19
And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:

2 pet 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

church fathers say being born again and regeneration are effected by the laver (washing) of the sacrament of baptism! acts1;8 & acts 2:42

Pope Pius XI, Quas Primas, on the Feast of Christ the King (#15): "The gospels present this kingdom as one which men prepare to enter by penance and cannot actually enter except by faith and by baptism, which, though an external rite, signifies and produces an interior regeneration."

Pope St. Leo the Great, dogmatic letter to Flavian, Council of Chalcedon, 451: “Let him heed what the blessed apostle Peter preaches, that sanctification by the Spirit is effected by the sprinkling of Christ’s blood (1 Pet. 1:2); and let him not skip over the same apostle’s words, knowing that you have been redeemed from the empty way of life you inherited from your fathers, not with corruptible gold and silver but by the precious blood of Jesus Christ, as of a lamb without stain or spot (1 Pet. 1:18). Nor should he withstand the testimony of blessed John the apostle: and the blood of Jesus, the Son of God, purifies us from every sin (1 Jn. 1:7); and again, This is the victory which conquers the world, our faith. Who is there who conquers the world save one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? It is He, Jesus Christ, who has come through water and blood, not in water only, but in water and blood. And because the Spirit is truth, it is the Spirit who testifies. For there are three who give testimony – Spirit and water and blood. And the three are one. (1 Jn. 5:4-8) in other words, the spirit of sanctification and the blood of redemption and the water of baptism. These three are one and remain indivisible. None of them is separable from its link with the others." mt 16:18-19 & mt 18:18 apostolic scripture gives authority to the apostolic church to bind all christians to believe the truth!

Acts 1:8 church fathers says the born again laver of regeneration (baptism) is the means of receiving the grace of justification!

But what a thing it is, to assert and contend that they who are not born in the Church can be the sons of God! For the blessed apostle sets forth and proves that baptism is that wherein the old man dies and the new man is born, saying, “He saved us by the washing of regeneration.”Tit. 3:5. But if regeneration is in the washing, that is, in baptism, how can heresy, which is not the spouse of Christ, generate sons to God by Christ? For it is the Church alone which, conjoined and united with Christ, spiritually bears sons; as the same apostle again says, “Christ loved the Church, and gave Himself for it, that He might sanctify it, cleansing it with the washing of water.”Eph. 5:25-26. If, then, she is the beloved and spouse who alone is sanctified by Christ, and alone is cleansed by His washing, it is manifest that heresy, which is not the spouse of Christ, nor can be cleansed nor sanctified by His washing, cannot bear sons to God.2901 St. Cyprian

eph 5:25-27

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, (faith and baptism)

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Do you believe it is by literal water or living water that is the word of God that we are made Spiritually new again.

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


Acts 2:38,39 When we repent of our sins and ask Jesus into our hearts we are also receiving the promise of God that his Holy Spirit will come and dwell in our hearts and teach us of all things we need to learn, John 14:26. The baptism that Peter was talking about in Acts 2:38 was a Spiritual rebirth through the word of God. Some people think it is being dunked or sprinkled with water the way John the Baptist did and there is nothing wrong with that for it is an outward appearance to man that you have repented and received Jesus and the Holy Spirit into your life, Matthew 3:11, but Jesus himself never baptized with water, John 4:2, for the baptism of Jesus was for receiving the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) that helps us to learn all truths and to know the will of the Father, 1 Thessalonians 4:1-12.

There is nothing wrong with immersion in water as this is an outward appearance to others that you have received Gods Salvation and the Holy Spirit. When the Disciples where in the upper room they all received the Holy Spirit, not by immersion of water, but by Gods Spirit falling on them. What about those people who can not be immersed in water that are incapacitated. Peter did not say that it was through water that we receive the Holy Spirit in Acts 10:47, 48 he was saying that others should not forbid a Gentile who wants to be immersed in water, but repentance must come first. After repentance and the Spiritual rebirth, John 3:5-7, we are then baptized in the Holy Spirit and fire through that of Christ baptism according to Acts 2:38, 39, Matthew 3:11.

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