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False Universalism

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HSong

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False Universalism = Everyone will go to Heaven even if they don’t believe in Christ thus they still have sin.

True Christian Universalism = Everyone will go to Heaven because everyone will believe in Christ thus be made clean from sin.



To explain this, here is a conversation between Sailor Writer who says



And also, one question. Why do you believe in Universalism? Isn't it false? That whether you're saved or not, you'll still go to Heaven. It minimizes the full consequences of sin and the reason why Lord Jesus Christ come to Earth to die for our sins. I am saying this because... It is not even fair to God to put the unrepentant sinners and take them to Heaven. I hope you understand. Thank you once again.

And myself, which is the reply below.



Hi my friend SailorWriter, thank you for this question. As the Overseer of the Universalism section of this forum, I will answer your question.



First, we must define Christian Universalism. You say that Universalism means, whether or not someone is saved, they will go to Heaven. That is false. I do not believe in that Universalism. The Bible makes it clear that those who are not saved will not enter Heaven.



Revelation 21:24 By its light will the nations walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it, 25 and its gates will never be shut by day—and there will be no night there. 26 They will bring into it the glory and the honor of the nations. 27 But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life.



Like you say, the full consequence of sin is death. Therefore, all who are not saved will remain in Sheol (OT) aka Hades (NT), since sin is still in them.



1 Samuel 2:6 The Lord kills and he gives life, He sends down to Sheol, he can bring the dead up again.



Repentence is defined as recognition of sins. Of course, one must repent, which means, be aware that they have sin, in order to understand that they need a saviour, Jesus Christ. Jesus is the only way to Heaven. Therefore, I tell you, nobody with sin will ever enter Heaven. It's impossible for anything unclean, anything sinful, anything that is not completely perfect in righteousness to ever enter the Gates of Paradise.



The only way to obtain this perfect righteousness is by faith in Christ. Jesus paid the penalty for sin, death, and resurrected, showing how He fully paid it off. Therefore, all who believer in Christ are made clean of sin. No uncleanliness at all.







Christian Universalism is defined as such: Everyone will become believers in Jesus. Yes, all people will become Christians. Christ shall be all in all.



1 Corinthians 15:22-28 All will be made alive in Christ, but each in his own turn and ultimately Christ will subdue all His enemies, eliminate death and God will be all in all.



Since nothing unclean can enter Heaven, therefore, all people will be made clean and enter Heaven.



ISAIAH 1:25 I will thoroughly purge away your dross and remove all your impurities.



You may be wondering "What about those who already died without believing in Christ?" Because, yes, right now, they are atheists who died, or muslims that exist in our world. Many false religions, none of them can save us. Truly, all atheists and muslims will be converted to Christianity. Everybody will attend the LORD's feast of happiness. No more death = no more Sheol/Hades realm of the dead, all people saved and given permanent life.



Isaiah 25:6-8 " On this mountain the LORD of hosts will make for all peoples a feast of rich food, a feast of well-aged wine, of rich food full of marrow, of aged wine well refined. On this mountain he will destroy the shroud that enfolds all peoples, the sheet that covers all nations; And he shall destroy on this mountain the surface of the covering cast over ALL nations. he will swallow up death forever. The Sovereign LORD will wipe away the tears from all faces; he will remove his people’s disgrace from all the earth. The LORD has spoken.



When a non-believer dies, they remain in Sheol/Hades. There is punishment for sin, consequence, which is death. However, God's anger towards sinners does not last forever. But all sinners will be washed of sin by having faith in Jesus. The pain and suffering we feel is temporary, everybody's tears will be wiped away. The Lord is merciful to all.



Isaiah 57:16 "For I will not contend forever, Nor will I always be angry; For the spirit would fail before Me, And the souls which I have made."



Romans 11:32: "For God has consigned all to disobedience, that He may have mercy on all."



We were all disobedient to God, we all have sinned. What makes us, you and me, so special that we are saved and not the others? Truly, as 1 Cor 15:22-28 says above, our turn is ahead of other people's turn. We believed now, there will be others who believe later. And this will keep going until everyone believes.



1 Timothy 2:3-6: "This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved



The LORD is Almighty. His desire to save everyone thus will be fulfilled. He will have absolute victory over death, sin. He is God of the Living after all.



PSALM 103:8-14 The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in mercy. He will not always strive with us, nor will He keep His anger forever.



His mercy applies to everybody, the whole world (John 3:16). The Lord has mercy, not just on you and me, HSong and SailorWriter specifically as sinners, but to all sinners everywhere! Salvation is not something given to just a few people, but to the whole world. That is God's love for the whole world, which never fails (1 Cor 13:8).



Psalm NEB 138:8 The Lord will accomplish His purpose for me. Thy true love, 0 Lord, endures for ever, leave not thy work unfinished.



Someone who has sin is unfinished. A completed creation is a believer in Christ. Atheists, muslims, all those who believe in false religions are incomplete. They do not understand true love, who is God, who is Christ. Eventually they will, and believe, even after death, becaues God brings up the dead, like I mentioned above in 1 Samuel 2:6.



Psalm 118:1 Give thanks to the Lord, for He is good; His love endures forever.
 
False Universalism = Everyone will go to Heaven even if they don’t believe in Christ thus they still have sin.

True Christian Universalism = Everyone will go to Heaven because everyone will believe in Christ thus be made clean from sin.



To explain this, here is a conversation between Sailor Writer who says



And also, one question. Why do you believe in Universalism? Isn't it false? That whether you're saved or not, you'll still go to Heaven. It minimizes the full consequences of sin and the reason why Lord Jesus Christ come to Earth to die for our sins. I am saying this because... It is not even fair to God to put the unrepentant sinners and take them to Heaven. I hope you understand. Thank you once again.

And myself, which is the reply below.



Hi my friend SailorWriter, thank you for this question. As the Overseer of the Universalism section of this forum, I will answer your question.



First, we must define Christian Universalism. You say that Universalism means, whether or not someone is saved, they will go to Heaven. That is false. I do not believe in that Universalism. The Bible makes it clear that those who are not saved will not enter Heaven.



Revelation 21:24 By its light will the nations walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it, 25 and its gates will never be shut by day—and there will be no night there. 26 They will bring into it the glory and the honor of the nations. 27 But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life.



Like you say, the full consequence of sin is death. Therefore, all who are not saved will remain in Sheol (OT) aka Hades (NT), since sin is still in them.



1 Samuel 2:6 The Lord kills and he gives life, He sends down to Sheol, he can bring the dead up again.



Repentence is defined as recognition of sins. Of course, one must repent, which means, be aware that they have sin, in order to understand that they need a saviour, Jesus Christ. Jesus is the only way to Heaven. Therefore, I tell you, nobody with sin will ever enter Heaven. It's impossible for anything unclean, anything sinful, anything that is not completely perfect in righteousness to ever enter the Gates of Paradise.



The only way to obtain this perfect righteousness is by faith in Christ. Jesus paid the penalty for sin, death, and resurrected, showing how He fully paid it off. Therefore, all who believer in Christ are made clean of sin. No uncleanliness at all.







Christian Universalism is defined as such: Everyone will become believers in Jesus. Yes, all people will become Christians. Christ shall be all in all.



1 Corinthians 15:22-28 All will be made alive in Christ, but each in his own turn and ultimately Christ will subdue all His enemies, eliminate death and God will be all in all.



Since nothing unclean can enter Heaven, therefore, all people will be made clean and enter Heaven.



ISAIAH 1:25 I will thoroughly purge away your dross and remove all your impurities.



You may be wondering "What about those who already died without believing in Christ?" Because, yes, right now, they are atheists who died, or muslims that exist in our world. Many false religions, none of them can save us. Truly, all atheists and muslims will be converted to Christianity. Everybody will attend the LORD's feast of happiness. No more death = no more Sheol/Hades realm of the dead, all people saved and given permanent life.



Isaiah 25:6-8 " On this mountain the LORD of hosts will make for all peoples a feast of rich food, a feast of well-aged wine, of rich food full of marrow, of aged wine well refined. On this mountain he will destroy the shroud that enfolds all peoples, the sheet that covers all nations; And he shall destroy on this mountain the surface of the covering cast over ALL nations. he will swallow up death forever. The Sovereign LORD will wipe away the tears from all faces; he will remove his people’s disgrace from all the earth. The LORD has spoken.



When a non-believer dies, they remain in Sheol/Hades. There is punishment for sin, consequence, which is death. However, God's anger towards sinners does not last forever. But all sinners will be washed of sin by having faith in Jesus. The pain and suffering we feel is temporary, everybody's tears will be wiped away. The Lord is merciful to all.



Isaiah 57:16 "For I will not contend forever, Nor will I always be angry; For the spirit would fail before Me, And the souls which I have made."



Romans 11:32: "For God has consigned all to disobedience, that He may have mercy on all."



We were all disobedient to God, we all have sinned. What makes us, you and me, so special that we are saved and not the others? Truly, as 1 Cor 15:22-28 says above, our turn is ahead of other people's turn. We believed now, there will be others who believe later. And this will keep going until everyone believes.



1 Timothy 2:3-6: "This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved



The LORD is Almighty. His desire to save everyone thus will be fulfilled. He will have absolute victory over death, sin. He is God of the Living after all.



PSALM 103:8-14 The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in mercy. He will not always strive with us, nor will He keep His anger forever.



His mercy applies to everybody, the whole world (John 3:16). The Lord has mercy, not just on you and me, HSong and SailorWriter specifically as sinners, but to all sinners everywhere! Salvation is not something given to just a few people, but to the whole world. That is God's love for the whole world, which never fails (1 Cor 13:8).



Psalm NEB 138:8 The Lord will accomplish His purpose for me. Thy true love, 0 Lord, endures for ever, leave not thy work unfinished.



Someone who has sin is unfinished. A completed creation is a believer in Christ. Atheists, muslims, all those who believe in false religions are incomplete. They do not understand true love, who is God, who is Christ. Eventually they will, and believe, even after death, becaues God brings up the dead, like I mentioned above in 1 Samuel 2:6.



Psalm 118:1 Give thanks to the Lord, for He is good; His love endures forever.
You use the wrong definition of "repentance".
The correct definition is "turn from" or, "change".
"For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." (2 Cor 7:10)
Your definition omits the sorrow.
 
You use the wrong definition of "repentance".
Hi Hopeful my friend,

The definition of repentence means to recognize one's sins. For one to recognize their need for a saviour, who is Christ Jesus they must recognize that they have sin, thus recognizing that Jesus Christ will save them from their sin. All people will recognize this need for faith. Therefore, they will have faith alone in Christ and be saved.

Romans 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness.

We are not saved by "turning from sin". Of course, by itself, it's good to turn from sin. But that's not what saves us. Our own good works do not save us. It's faith alone in Christ, a gift that we accept. Therefore, repentance, as it's used for salvation, means that we must turn to God to have faith alone in Him.

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ

Turning from sin would mean having a righteousness of our own coming from the law. But truly, none of our works are really "good" because only God is good, only His works are good! So it's impossible to be saved by turning from sin by ourself. Try as we might, but no matter how many sins we try to turn from, we will never get saved by our own works. It's only by faith alone in Christ that we are saved.

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

{about} repentance
μετάνοιαν (metanoian)
Noun - Accusative Feminine Singular



Here's a good quote from Dr. Max Younce in his .pdf book “A Biblical Examination Of Baptism”

The ONLY thing that you need to repent of to be saved is whatever it is that's been keeping you from coming to Christ to be saved.

And another from Dr. Harry Ironside On Repentance

"Repentance is the sinner’s recognition of and acknowledgment of his lost estate" (Except Ye Repent, p. 11).
Because what if someone turns from sin but does not believe in Christ? Then they are not saved! Because only the blood of Christ washes away our sins, our own tainted blood does not save us my friend. None of our works are good by themselves! Only the work of God is good!

Honestly, salvation is a smple matter, as directly said in the Bible.
Acts 16:31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved

They don't mention the words repentance or baptism here, simply "believe in the Lord Jesus" and thus a person is saved. Therefore, this shows us that repentance and baptism are not good works

Turning from sins is a good work
Good works do not save us, only faith aloen in Lord Jesus
Therefore, biblical repentance is not turning from sins, it's the recognition of sins.

Being baptized by water is a good work
Good works do not save us, only faith alone in Lord Jesus
Therefore, biblical baptism is not being immersed/sprinkled/etc by water, it's the spiritual baptism when the Holy Spirit goes inside a person and spritiually washes away all of their sins.

I mention baptism and repentence both here because this verse mentiosn them

Mark 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. (KJV)

What is the remission of sins? Faith alone in Christ. Baptism is spiritual baptism for when a person who had faith alone in Christ gains the Holy Spirit. Repentance is spiritual repentance for when a person recognizes they have sins and thus recognizes their need to have faith alone in Christ.

Repentance is what leads to faith alone and baptism is what follows faith alone.

Faith alone is what saves, repentance is just the before and baptism is the after. Repentance meaning recognition of sins. And baptism meaning the Holy Spirit spritually washing away our sins.

Repentance is not turning from sins for salvation, that's a good work, it does not save us. Baptism is not physical water for salvation, that's a good work, it does not save us.

Thus, when a person believes in Lord Jesus, they are permanently saved. And therefore, all people will believe in Christ to be saved and all will gain permanent life.

Romans 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Hope that explains it Hopeful my friend!
Please have a good day, God bless! :biggrin
 
Hi Hopeful my friend,

The definition of repentence means to recognize one's sins. For one to recognize their need for a saviour, who is Christ Jesus they must recognize that they have sin, thus recognizing that Jesus Christ will save them from their sin. All people will recognize this need for faith. Therefore, they will have faith alone in Christ and be saved.

Romans 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness.

We are not saved by "turning from sin". Of course, by itself, it's good to turn from sin. But that's not what saves us. Our own good works do not save us. It's faith alone in Christ, a gift that we accept. Therefore, repentance, as it's used for salvation, means that we must turn to God to have faith alone in Him.

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ

Turning from sin would mean having a righteousness of our own coming from the law. But truly, none of our works are really "good" because only God is good, only His works are good! So it's impossible to be saved by turning from sin by ourself. Try as we might, but no matter how many sins we try to turn from, we will never get saved by our own works. It's only by faith alone in Christ that we are saved.

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

{about} repentance
μετάνοιαν (metanoian)
Noun - Accusative Feminine Singular



Here's a good quote from Dr. Max Younce in his .pdf book “A Biblical Examination Of Baptism”

The ONLY thing that you need to repent of to be saved is whatever it is that's been keeping you from coming to Christ to be saved.

And another from Dr. Harry Ironside On Repentance

"Repentance is the sinner’s recognition of and acknowledgment of his lost estate" (Except Ye Repent, p. 11).
Because what if someone turns from sin but does not believe in Christ? Then they are not saved! Because only the blood of Christ washes away our sins, our own tainted blood does not save us my friend. None of our works are good by themselves! Only the work of God is good!

Honestly, salvation is a smple matter, as directly said in the Bible.
Acts 16:31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved

They don't mention the words repentance or baptism here, simply "believe in the Lord Jesus" and thus a person is saved. Therefore, this shows us that repentance and baptism are not good works

Turning from sins is a good work
Good works do not save us, only faith aloen in Lord Jesus
Therefore, biblical repentance is not turning from sins, it's the recognition of sins.

Being baptized by water is a good work
Good works do not save us, only faith alone in Lord Jesus
Therefore, biblical baptism is not being immersed/sprinkled/etc by water, it's the spiritual baptism when the Holy Spirit goes inside a person and spritiually washes away all of their sins.

I mention baptism and repentence both here because this verse mentiosn them

Mark 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. (KJV)

What is the remission of sins? Faith alone in Christ. Baptism is spiritual baptism for when a person who had faith alone in Christ gains the Holy Spirit. Repentance is spiritual repentance for when a person recognizes they have sins and thus recognizes their need to have faith alone in Christ.

Repentance is what leads to faith alone and baptism is what follows faith alone.

Faith alone is what saves, repentance is just the before and baptism is the after. Repentance meaning recognition of sins. And baptism meaning the Holy Spirit spritually washing away our sins.

Repentance is not turning from sins for salvation, that's a good work, it does not save us. Baptism is not physical water for salvation, that's a good work, it does not save us.

Thus, when a person believes in Lord Jesus, they are permanently saved. And therefore, all people will believe in Christ to be saved and all will gain permanent life.

Romans 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Hope that explains it Hopeful my friend!
Please have a good day, God bless! :biggrin
Sorry you seem to have gravitated to the road of accommodating sin.
 
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