For those who do not believe that Jesus Christ is YHWH, Almighty God...

[Capbook]

I believe Jesus is begotten and is in the form of God in the beginning. This "begotten" being you state came from the Fathers presence yet you state the Logos was unbegotten. So your unbegotten Logos became begotten when?

The Word that was God, was not the Son yet, see verse below, the Father did not say, "You are the Word, Today I have begotten You." Means when the Word became the Son, the "begotten" word was used.

Thus, the Word is unbegotten, became begotten when born as a Son. (Psa 2:7)

To understand more fully, the word "begotten" with Strong#H3205, in Hebrew "ילד yâlad" defined by Bible lexicon means as - of child birth, to be born, to beget a child, day of birth, to declare one's birth, etc.

Definition proves that the Word that was God, is uncreated, unbegotten, eternal and etc.
When became flesh, emptied Himself the form of God and take the likeness of man to die on the cross to offer salvation to all mankind in faith. Exalted, glory restored, and being worshiped together with the Father. (Rev 5:13,14)

Psa 2:7 "I will surely tell of the decree of the LORD: He said to Me,'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.
Psa 2:7 "I will surelyH3588 tellH5608 of the N1decreeH2706 of the LORDH3068: He saidH559 to Me, 'You are R1My SonH1121, TodayH3117 I have begottenH3205 You.

H3205 (Brown, Driver, Briggs Lexicon)
ילד yâlad
BDB Definition:
1) to bear, bring forth, beget, gender, travail
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to bear, bring forth
1a1a) of child birth
1a1b) of distress (simile)
1a1c) of wicked (behaviour)
1a2) to beget
1b) (Niphal) to be born
1c) (Piel)
1c1) to cause or help to bring forth
1c2) to assist or tend as a midwife
1c3) midwife (participle)
1d) (Pual) to be born
1e) (Hiphil)
1e1) to beget (a child)
1e2) to bear (figuratively - of wicked bringing forth iniquity)
1f) (Hophal) day of birth, birthday (infinitive)
1g) (Hithpael) to declare one’s birth (pedigree)
Part of Speech: verb

Just so you understand the church views the Sons sonship as ontological not as the Fathers offspring despite the usages of "from". As in no beginning, coeternal, coequal of one and the same substance.

Yes, from the beginning before became a Son, as the Word, He was God, being in the nature of God doesn't ceased. He emptied Himself the form of God, that is to divest one’s self of that prerogatives.

The word "emptied" with Strong#G2758, in Greek "κενόω kenoō" defined by Bible lexicon, means as - to divest one’s self of one’s prerogatives, and etc.

Php 2:7 but N1 R1emptiedG2758 HimselfG1438, takingG2983 the formG3444 of a R2bond-servantG1401, and R3beingG1096 madeG1096 in the likenessG3667 of menG444.

G2758 (Mounce)
κενόω kenoō
5x: to empty, evacuate; ἑαυτόν, to divest one’s self of one’s prerogatives, abase one’s self, Php_2:7; to deprive a thing of its proper functions, Rom_4:14; 1Co_1:17; to show to be without foundation, falsify, 1Co_9:15; 2Co_9:3.

Yet Jesus calls God, His God and Father and stated He was the only true God and was greater than Him. Scripture clearly shows His God setting His Son above all and the honor, power and glory attributed to the Son was because of His service to God and not because He is God who has always been above his creation. That "God" brought the world into existence through the Son. That is the Son was the Fathers agent in the creation. From the Father through the Son.

Yes, Jesus calls the Father His God, but before He became the Son, as the Word, the Word/logos did not call the Father His God as He is also possessed the nature of God.
But bear in mind, in the beginning God created all things through the Word, the Word became flesh only in the New Testament. Then the creation of all things credited to the flesh because He was the Word before.

So why does a being who has always existed call another His God and Father?

Because Jesus as the Son called His Father His God, but the Father also testified that the Son is God.

Why did God state , "therefore God, your God has set you above your companions"? Why the need anyway if Jesus is the true God?
How can one's own stated God not be the greater?

Yes, then Who do you think the first word "God' refer to in that text?

I believe this abut this about the Son but we differ in how it is so. The logos had the Fathers nature in Him. God was the Logos. The Logos was always Gods Son as in child not ontological and that is why Jesus calls God His God and His Father.

Now, you revised John 1:1, the Bible did not state, "in the beginning was the Word, and the Word is always the God's Son."

When reading the Bible, I prefer to start from the beginning, cause without it, we cannot see the whole picture.

The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being,

Yes, that's it, the exact representation of the Father's nature as God.

(NAS95) Heb 1:3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

God, our Father is unbegotten. The Son is begotten. Jesus is not your Father as He is your Lord. "Christ", the Lord. God's Christ. Yet the only begotten Son who came from the Fathers presence is also found in Greek manuscripts. Begotten weakens your case either way. Begotten is cohesive with my understanding in who Jesus is. Gods oldest "child". The Firstborn.

Yes, I've already proven that the Word is unbegotten.
As I've said, we cannot see the whole picture when we won't start from the beginning.
Who do you think Jesus was before He became flesh?
Was the Word God or not?
Was the Word begotten or not?
Was the Word firstborn or not?
Would you care enough to answer those questions above?

In Him was pleased to dwell the fullness as opposed to being that fullness or Deity in Himself. It's the Fathers Deity and they are one in that Deity. In this context the Son is the First and Last, but the Son is also the beginning of the creation of God, the Firstborn. A like to like begotten Son of the Father or the only begotten God.

If you believe Heb 13:8, as "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever."
Think of Him in the beginning as the Word, and I believe you will understand.

Yes, that is truth, but our discussion is more about "the Son who was"

If we skip the beginning, we will be misled.
Long journey, always start in the first step.

I state the Son who was and the Son of Man and the Son who is now is the very same person and has always been the Gods Son. He sat down on His Fathers throne. He was not the Logos who became the Son and remained the Son. He has always been the Son. God's Firstborn.

You state that the, "the logos was always God's Son," as the logos was God, then read Heb 13:8, as "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
That you will understand that Jesus/Word as God, is the same yesterday, today and forever God.
Was the Father wrong when He testified Jesus as God? (Heb 1:8)

That doesn't make Him coeternal. I believe His words.

I noticed, you always skip Who the uncreated Word. The Word is eternal being uncreated.

The Son has His own spirit which cannot be Deity. The Deity of the First and Last in Him is the living Father. This glory of oneness was gifted to Him at His beginning at some point in History before the world began.

Above you state, "like begotten Son of the Father or the only begotten God," being Deity is being God.
Now, I find your statements conflicting.

"Father into your hands I commit MY spirit"

As lowercase "s" in "spirit," I understand it refer to the breath of life.

The Fathers promise, "In the last days I will pour out MY Spirit"
Acts 2 the Spirit Jesus sends He received from the Father. (From the Father given through the Son)

What about the Spirit who will dwell in us?
Is it the Spirit that when we "blasphemes" there is no forgiveness?
Unlike to the Father and Son can be forgiven.
Isn't that proves that the Spirit is a separate and distinct person to the Father and Son?
If you believe the Spirit is owned, why they differ about forgiveness?
Would you care to explain?

 

[Capbook]

If Jesus had a newly created spirit of a man and a human body how can He be fully God or what part of Him was God? Also what part of Jesus descended from above into that body if NOT His own spirit? He stated He came down from heaven and asked His then disciples who couldn't accept Him as the bread who came down from heaven, "Does this offend you then what if you see Him ascend to where He was before?"

It doesn't offend me, because before Jesus become flesh, He was in heaven with God, the Word.

He has always been the Son, (His spirit), the fullness was gifted unlike the Son's spirit which was formed by God, His Father as the beginning of the creation of God.
He is Gods Firstborn, His spirit, and is before all created things except His own person/spirit. In Him was pleased to dwell the fullness -from the will of another. Gifted not formed at that beginning, A other who defined His being as in His God and Father. That Son is the image of the invisible God but He is a child of God.

Can you state a Bible verse that state, "He has always been the Son," or that phrase unBiblical.

On this day Jesus spoke of His disciples would have a common frame of reference to understand the oneness He spoke of but we can't know fullness of Deity. For we have been gifted fullness in Him but Jesus has been gifted the Spirit without limit. The fullness of the Deity of the First and Last.

On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

​

For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10and you have come to fullness in Him

You've acknowledged Jesus being the "only begotten God," being God is also being a Deity, why confuse the usage?

I use uppercase for the Lord. Lowercase for His spirit and uppercase for the Fathers Spirit. I do not believe Jesus had the Spirit of a man nor do I believe His spirit is Deity. The Son who was, His spirit was in that body. He descended and ascended to where He was before. The Deity of the First and Last in Him is the Father's.​

May I know Who do you believe own the spirit (breath of life) of man?

As one who believes Jesus calls the Father the only true God I only believe in One God, my Father and one Christ my Lord. I do not state the Fathers own Spirit is a 3rd person. It is just that the Spirit of the Sovereign Lord and the Fathers Spirit would have the Fathers nature.

Hence, "Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ".

Good, then Who is this one Lord that is called God?
Remember, God created all things through the Word.

Act 17:24 "The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands;

 

[Randy]

It doesn't offend me, because before Jesus become flesh, He was in heaven with God, the Word.

I didn't state it offended you. I used reason and asked you a question in regard to your understanding which you ignored. A foundation of mystery doesn't supply that answer does it?

Can you state a Bible verse that state, "He has always been the Son," or that phrase unBiblical.

The firstborn of all creation. He is a Son as He states and He has a Father and a God as He states.
I'll ask you again as you ignored it before.
If He always was and always was God how did He become a Son?
Do you believe the Logos ceasted to exist and became the Son and remain the Son?

You've acknowledged Jesus being the "only begotten God," being God is also being a Deity, why confuse the usage?

God is unbegotten. I believe all the fullness of the First and Last lives in Him as the FATHER. In this glory of oneness the Son is all that the Father is. The only begotten like to like Son of the Father OR the only begotten God.
But the Son's spirit, the Firstborn, is not deity. Not God.

May I know Who do you believe own the spirit (breath of life) of man?

Jesus, His spirit, was before the world began. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
A body was prepared for Him.

Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;

The doctrines of the trinity are not my bias in this understanding. I have another teacher who greatly influenced my understanding.

Good, then Who is this one Lord that is called God?
Remember, God created all things through the Word.

God created by His Son. Hebrews 1 about the Son. Nicene creed "through Him all things were made"
God spoke to us by His Son.
My reasoning is the same as Jesus gave in regard to who spoke to us, "the Father living in Him doing His work"

Act 17:24 "The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands;

But as Jesus states the "Father" was living in Him as the "Father" not Himself who was doing HIS work.

 

[Randy]

The Word that was God, was not the Son yet, see verse below, the Father did not say, "You are the Word, Today I have begotten You." Means when the Word became the Son, the "begotten" word was used.

So you believe the Logos ceased to exist and became the Son and reamained the Son who now has a God and Father?
I believe Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

I'll ask you again as you ignore my question.
What part of Jesus descended into that body from above if NOT His own spirit?
If He had a human body and a spirit of a man what part of Him was God?

Thus, the Word is unbegotten, became begotten when born as a Son. (Psa 2:7)

The being you state that has no beginning has a God and Father. So the First and the Last is His own Son and His own God and Father? How confused they must be.

I know different.

To understand more fully, the word "begotten" with Strong#H3205, in Hebrew "ילד yâlad" defined by Bible lexicon means as - of child birth, to be born, to beget a child, day of birth, to declare one's birth, etc.

Definition proves that the Word that was God, is uncreated, unbegotten, eternal and etc.
When became flesh, emptied Himself the form of God and take the likeness of man to die on the cross to offer salvation to all mankind in faith. Exalted, glory restored, and being worshiped together with the Father. (Rev 5:13,14)

The Son who was, His spirit, was in that body. He descended and ascended to where He was before. His spirit is God's Firstborn and has always been the Son. He has not always been the Son of Man. He is now the Son of Man but His spirit remains the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Psa 2:7 "I will surely tell of the decree of the LORD: He said to Me,'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.
Psa 2:7 "I will surelyH3588 tellH5608 of the N1decreeH2706 of the LORDH3068: He saidH559 to Me, 'You are R1My SonH1121, TodayH3117 I have begottenH3205 You.

The Son of God. God's Christ or anointed is the Son of God. But the Firstborn that God brought into the world, His spirit, was alive before the world began. A body was prepared for Him.

H3205 (Brown, Driver, Briggs Lexicon)
ילד yâlad
BDB Definition:
1) to bear, bring forth, beget, gender, travail
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to bear, bring forth
1a1a) of child birth
1a1b) of distress (simile)
1a1c) of wicked (behaviour)
1a2) to beget
1b) (Niphal) to be born
1c) (Piel)
1c1) to cause or help to bring forth
1c2) to assist or tend as a midwife
1c3) midwife (participle)
1d) (Pual) to be born
1e) (Hiphil)
1e1) to beget (a child)
1e2) to bear (figuratively - of wicked bringing forth iniquity)
1f) (Hophal) day of birth, birthday (infinitive)
1g) (Hithpael) to declare one’s birth (pedigree)
Part of Speech: verb

Yes, from the beginning before became a Son, as the Word, He was God, being in the nature of God doesn't ceased. He emptied Himself the form of God, that is to divest one’s self of that prerogatives.

He has always been the Son. God has always been His God and Father and we agree they are not the same person.

The word "emptied" with Strong#G2758, in Greek "κενόω kenoō" defined by Bible lexicon, means as - to divest one’s self of one’s prerogatives, and etc.

Php 2:7 but N1 R1emptiedG2758 HimselfG1438, takingG2983 the formG3444 of a R2bond-servantG1401, and R3beingG1096 madeG1096 in the likenessG3667 of menG444.

He walked in the weakness and limitations of the flesh as we do.

G2758 (Mounce)
κενόω kenoō
5x: to empty, evacuate; ἑαυτόν, to divest one’s self of one’s prerogatives, abase one’s self, Php_2:7; to deprive a thing of its proper functions, Rom_4:14; 1Co_1:17; to show to be without foundation, falsify, 1Co_9:15; 2Co_9:3.

Yes, Jesus calls the Father His God, but before He became the Son, as the Word, the Word/logos did not call the Father His God as He is also possessed the nature of God.
But bear in mind, in the beginning God created all things through the Word, the Word became flesh only in the New Testament. Then the creation of all things credited to the flesh because He was the Word before.

Because Jesus as the Son called His Father His God, but the Father also testified that the Son is God.

Yes, then Who do you think the first word "God' refer to in that text?

Now, you revised John 1:1, the Bible did not state, "in the beginning was the Word, and the Word is always the God's Son."

I didn't change anything. God was the Logos is cohesive with my belief that Christ Jesus had and has now the Fathers nature. God in that context. He is NOT coeternal. They are ONE.

When reading the Bible, I prefer to start from the beginning, cause without it, we cannot see the whole picture.

When hearing the unexplainable as a foundation of Mystery I cried out to the Lord, can anyone explain the trinity.
He answered. Via the Spirit to my spirit, I heard words in my mind in "english"
The Firstborn of all creation=>"He is Gods Firstborn and has always been the Son" is the correct meaning.

If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you.

Yes, that's it, the exact representation of the Father's nature as God.

Because the Father in all His fullness lives in His Son as the Father. They are ONE.

(NAS95) Heb 1:3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Yes as God commanded Him He sat down at Gods right hand UNTIL God makes His enemies a footstool for His feet.

Yes, I've already proven that the Word is unbegotten.
As I've said, we cannot see the whole picture when we won't start from the beginning.
Who do you think Jesus was before He became flesh?
Was the Word God or not?
Was the Word begotten or not?
Was the Word firstborn or not?
Would you care enough to answer those questions above?

You have proven no such thing.

If you believe Heb 13:8, as "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever."
Think of Him in the beginning as the Word, and I believe you will understand.

He has always been the Son. His spirit never changes. He was in that body.

If we skip the beginning, we will be misled.
Long journey, always start in the first step.

He was with the Father in the beginning.

You state that the, "the logos was always God's Son," as the logos was God, then read Heb 13:8, as "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
That you will understand that Jesus/Word as God, is the same yesterday, today and forever God.
Was the Father wrong when He testified Jesus as God? (Heb 1:8)

What you believe is not that as you believe the Deity of the Logos actually became the Spirit of a man. His spirit has never changed.

I noticed, you always skip Who the uncreated Word. The Word is eternal being uncreated.

There is no uncreated word. Your understanding is mistaken. John could not refer to Jesus in that beginning so He used, "Word" in John and "word of life" in 1John. And the Son of Man was the word of the Father. He spoke the Fathers message not His own and gave the words the Father gave Him. The source of truth was the Father as in God spoke to us by His Son. But the Son is a being not a word.

Above you state, "like begotten Son of the Father or the only begotten God," being Deity is being God.
Now, I find your statements conflicting.

Jesus is all that the Father is as I have stated numerous times and He, His spirit, is begotten and in that context the only like to like begotten Son or the only begotten God is the same understanding to me.
Again Col 1:19 from the will of another as in a creation of God. The Father as the Father is the one Jesus testified to as living in Him doing His work. He stated they are ONE.

As lowercase "s" in "spirit," I understand it refer to the breath of life.

Jesus, His spirit never changes. He is the same yesterday, today and forever. A body was prepared for Him.
Jesus's spirit existed before all other created things. The creation account given by God in Genesis and thrones and authorities set up in the heavenly realms.

 

[Randy]

What about the Spirit who will dwell in us?
Is it the Spirit that when we "blasphemes" there is no forgiveness?
Unlike to the Father and Son can be forgiven.
Isn't that proves that the Spirit is a separate and distinct person to the Father and Son?
If you believe the Spirit is owned, why they differ about forgiveness?
Would you care to explain?

What about it? Those who didn't belong to God were those who couldn't accept the Fathers works Jesus performed by the Holy Spirit of God stated He performed those works by unclean spirits thus they blasphemed the Spirit by calling it unclean or demons. That sin will never be forgiven as Jesus who is the one who judges stated. None of that makes Him coeternal, coequal. Sins against the, " Son of man" will be forgiven. Those who lied to the Father as in His Spirit were struck dead as you read in acts.

But other than blaspheming the Holy Spirit because of what Jesus stated God is not bound.
For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

Fathers promise=>"In the last days I will pour out MY Spirit"
Jesus stated the Father would send the Spirit in His name.

There is only one Spirit and the Father alone calls that Spirit His own.

But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

 

[JLB]

The Word that was God, was not the Son yet, see verse below, the Father did not say, "You are the Word, Today I have begotten You." Means when the Word became the Son, the "begotten" word was used.

The Word is a reference to the Son.

The Word did not become the Son, the Word became flesh.

The Son of God became flesh.

The Son is eternal.

The Son is God.

The Son is YHWH.

The Son created the heavens and the earth.


But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And: “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10

 

[Capbook]

I didn't state it offended you. I used reason and asked you a question in regard to your understanding which you ignored. A foundation of mystery doesn't supply that answer does it?

You said, ""Does this offend you then what if you see Him ascend to where He was before?"
I don't also understand what's the point of that.

The firstborn of all creation. He is a Son as He states and He has a Father and a God as He states.
I'll ask you again as you ignored it before.
If He always was and always was God how did He become a Son?

Jesus was born in the New Testament, the Son of human Mary,named Jesus as the "Son of Man."
And as Jesus was the child by the Holy Spirit, He is called the "Son of God."

Mat 1:25 but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.
Mat 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit.

Do you believe the Logos ceasted to exist and became the Son and remain the Son?

No, His God nature never ceased to exist as He is uncreated.

God is unbegotten.

Yes, the Word also.

I believe all the fullness of the First and Last lives in Him as the FATHER. In this glory of oneness the Son is all that the Father is. The only begotten like to like Son of the Father OR the only begotten God.

Yes, Jesus is the "only begotten God," as in the beginning the Word was God and became flesh in the New Testament, was called "the Son of God" and the "Son of Man."

But the Son's spirit, the Firstborn, is not deity. Not God.

Do you mean the breath of life?

Jesus, His spirit, was before the world began. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
A body was prepared for Him.

While the body was being prepared, He was the Word, the same yesterday, today and forever God.

Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;

To save all mankind, it needs a blood sacrifice, the bloodless Word that was God needs to became flesh body to shed His blood and offer hope of salvation to all in faith.

The doctrines of the trinity are not my bias in this understanding. I have another teacher who greatly influenced my understanding.

My teacher are the Bible translations that abide in the process of "textual criticism" that aims to maintain the highest degree of accuracy to the original languages with the assistance of Bible lexicons to know what original Bible words means at the time of its usage.

The concept of Trinity is Biblical.

God created by His Son. Hebrews 1 about the Son. Nicene creed "through Him all things were made"

What do you mean by "God created by His Son?"

God spoke to us by His Son.

Yes, by the speech/logos in the Old Testament, and flesh in the New Testament.

My reasoning is the same as Jesus gave in regard to who spoke to us, "the Father living in Him doing His work"

Yes, they have the power to inter-dwell.

But as Jesus states the "Father" was living in Him as the "Father" not Himself who was doing HIS work.

How do you explain what Jesus said "I am in the in the Father?"

Joh 14:10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

 

[Capbook]

What about it? Those who didn't belong to God were those who couldn't accept the Fathers works Jesus performed by the Holy Spirit of God stated He performed those works by unclean spirits thus they blasphemed the Spirit by calling it unclean or demons. That sin will never be forgiven as Jesus who is the one who judges stated. None of that makes Him coeternal, coequal. Sins against the, " Son of man" will be forgiven. Those who lied to the Father as in His Spirit were struck dead as you read in acts.

If you mean Acts 5, that's the blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, cannot be forgiven, death was the result.
Never put the Spirit to test, as they both lied, not to men but to the Holy Spirit referred as God.

Act 5:3 But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land?
Act 5:4 "While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God."
Act 5:9 Then Peter said to her, "Why is it that you have agreed together to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out as well."

But other than blaspheming the Holy Spirit because of what Jesus stated God is not bound.
For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

Fathers promise=>"In the last days I will pour out MY Spirit"
Jesus stated the Father would send the Spirit in His name.

There is only one Spirit and the Father alone calls that Spirit His own.

The Father and the Holy Spirit differs about forgiveness, that proves they are separate and distinct person with each other.
If you forgive someone, do that mean you also do not forgive that same person?
That means two will, one never forgive and the other can.

But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

If you sent someone as a spokeperson, do that mean you are that person?

 

[Capbook]

The Word is a reference to the Son.

In the beginning, God created all things through the Word, the speech/logos in the creation week, Old Testament and etc.
The Word became flesh only in the New Testament.

The Word did not become the Son, the Word became flesh.

Do you believe that the Son is not in flesh?

The Son of God became flesh.

Then how do you interpret John 1:14?
Who became flesh?

The Son is eternal.

Yes, His divine nature is eternal, His flesh not.

The Son is God.

Agree.

The Son is YHWH.

Being the speech/logos in the OT, He was named YHWH.

1Sa 3:21 And the LORD appeared again at Shiloh, because the LORD revealed Himself to Samuel at Shiloh by the word of the LORD.

The Son created the heavens and the earth.

Before the Son was born, God created all things through the Word, also credited to the Son when in flesh.

But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And: “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10

When we start at the beginning, it was the Word, then credited to the Son when incarnate.

 

[Randy]

If you mean Acts 5, that's the blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, cannot be forgiven, death was the result.
Never put the Spirit to test, as they both lied, not to men but to the Holy Spirit referred as God.

Act 5:3 But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land?
Act 5:4 "While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God."
Act 5:9 Then Peter said to her, "Why is it that you have agreed together to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out as well."

The Father and the Holy Spirit differs about forgiveness, that proves they are separate and distinct person with each other.
If you forgive someone, do that mean you also do not forgive that same person?
That means two will, one never forgive and the other can.

If you sent someone as a spokeperson, do that mean you are that person?

No I mean to show the Spirit is the Spirit of God our Father just as "Jesus" stated. Not a 3rd person.
"Jesus" calls the Father the only true God. Is that false?

 

[Randy]

You said, ""Does this offend you then what if you see Him ascend to where He was before?"
I don't also understand what's the point of that.

He descended and ascended to where He was before. If He had the Spirit of a man what part of Him descended if NOT His own spirit?

Jesus was born in the New Testament, the Son of human Mary,named Jesus as the "Son of Man."
And as Jesus was the child by the Holy Spirit, He is called the "Son of God."

First of all HE never refers the the Spirit as His God or Father. Its, "our Father who is in heaven" Second of all His spirit was before the world began. A body was prepared for Him.
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;

Mat 1:25 but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.
Mat 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit.

The Spirit of the only true God is the Holy Spirit. The one He calls Father. The body was conceived by the Spirit.

No, His God nature never ceased to exist as He is uncreated.

He is begotten and is God's firstborn. The Father alone is unbegotten.

Yes, the Word also.

Yes, Jesus is the "only begotten God," as in the beginning the Word was God and became flesh in the New Testament, was called "the Son of God" and the "Son of Man."

Yes He is "begotten" not unbegotten.

Do you mean the breath of life?

You state that. Have I ever posted that?

While the body was being prepared, He was the Word, the same yesterday, today and forever God.

He has always been a Son. God created by the Son havn't you read Hebrews 1?
Its the church of the Firstborn not the church of the logos.

To save all mankind, it needs a blood sacrifice, the bloodless Word that was God needs to became flesh body to shed His blood and offer hope of salvation to all in faith.

That doesn't make Him coeternal.
We believe this ministry of reconcilation.
and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

My teacher are the Bible translations that abide in the process of "textual criticism" that aims to maintain the highest degree of accuracy to the original languages with the assistance of Bible lexicons to know what original Bible words means at the time of its usage.

You understanding of a 3 person Godhead is from the doctrine of the trinity.
Its what causes you to look elsewhere even when Jesus calls the Father the only true God.

The concept of Trinity is Biblical.

It intoduced error not found in the NT.
The Son is begotten and has a beginning at some point in history before the world began and the Fathers own Spirit is not another person. Its one God, our Father and one Christ our Lord.

What do you mean by "God created by His Son?"

The same as God spoke to us by His Son. The Father living in His Son as the Father doing His work. Only the Deity of the only true God can create. Apart from the Father the Son could not create.
"through Him all things were created" (As testfied to in genesis and thrones and authorities established in the heavenly realms.

Yes, by the speech/logos in the Old Testament, and flesh in the New Testament

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2&but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

Yes, they have the power to inter-dwell.

How do you explain what Jesus said "I am in the in the Father?"

I am in Christ and the Father as well.

Its the Deity of the Father as the Father living in His Firstborn.

Joh 14:10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

Yes I do believe.
Bu it doesn't help your case.

On that day you will realize that I am in my Father and you are in me and I in you.

 

[JLB]

In the beginning, God created all things through the Word, the speech/logos in the creation week, Old Testament and etc.
The Word became flesh only in the New Testament.

The Word is the Son.

The Son is God just as the Father is God.

God the Son, the Word became flesh.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16

 

[JLB]

Do you believe that the Son is not in flesh?

The Son of God, God, the Word became flesh.

 

[JLB]

Then how do you interpret John 1:14?
Who became flesh?

The Son, The Word, God became flesh.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16

 

[JLB]

Before the Son was born, God created all things through the Word, also credited to the Son when in flesh.

The Son created all things.

 

[Capbook]

No I mean to show the Spirit is the Spirit of God our Father just as "Jesus" stated. Not a 3rd person.

As you answer "no", to the question, "if you sent someone as a spokeperson, do that mean you are that person?"
You just proven that they are separate persons.

As Ananias and Saphira died at the moment they lied to the unforgiving Holy Spirit, consequences happened.

Who do you believe, the faithful and just to forgive us our sins, if we confess? (1John 1:9)

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

"Jesus" calls the Father the only true God. Is that false?

Yes, the Father and Jesus are true God.
As the Father testified for Jesus as God, is Jesus a false God? (Heb 1:8)

 

[Capbook]

He descended and ascended to where He was before. If He had the Spirit of a man what part of Him descended if NOT His own spirit?

The spirit of man (breath of life) is from God, the Word, the speech/logos.
Remember, God (the Father) created all things through the Word, as the Word was God from the beginning.
The Word was with the Father at the creation week.

First of all HE never refers the the Spirit as His God or Father. Its, "our Father who is in heaven" Second of all His spirit was before the world began. A body was prepared for Him.

May we know where in the Bible that state, "all His spirit was before the world began?"

Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;

The Spirit of the only true God is the Holy Spirit. The one He calls Father. The body was conceived by the Spirit.

He is begotten and is God's firstborn. The Father alone is unbegotten.

Yes He is "begotten" not unbegotten.

You state that. Have I ever posted that?

He has always been a Son. God created by the Son havn't you read Hebrews 1?
Its the church of the Firstborn not the church of the logos.

I believe I've already address these points.
I would like to point out that when the Bible mention word "Son," it imply the Word became flesh.
Before the Word became flesh, the Bible never state;
1. The Word is firstborn,
2. The Word is begotten,
3. The Word as heir,
4. The Word died,
5. The Word wasn't to be sacrificed, as He was a co-creator,
6. The Word was not the Son of Man,
7. The Word was not the Son of God.

When the Word became flesh, the Bible state;
1. Jesus was firstborn,
2. Jesus is begotten or only begotten "God,"
3. Jesus as heir,
4. Jesus flesh to die but not the God nature of the Word,
5. Jesus shed His blood sacrifice, as the Word is bloodless,
6. Jesus was the Son of Man,
7. Jesus is the Son of God.

Hope that distinction sink in.

That doesn't make Him coeternal.
We believe this ministry of reconcilation.
and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

8. The Word cannot initiate reconciliation as He is bloodless needed for sacrifice once and for all.
8. Jesus' blood was shed to offer the hope of reconciliation to the Father in faith.

You understanding of a 3 person Godhead is from the doctrine of the trinity.
Its what causes you to look elsewhere even when Jesus calls the Father the only true God.

The concept of the Trinity is Biblical, as a Christian, a follower of Christ, I obey His last command of baptism before His ascension, to be baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. And by obeying, He promised to be with us til the end of time.

It intoduced error not found in the NT.
The Son is begotten and has a beginning at some point in history before the world began and the Fathers own Spirit is not another person. Its one God, our Father and one Christ our Lord.

The same as God spoke to us by His Son. The Father living in His Son as the Father doing His work. Only the Deity of the only true God can create. Apart from the Father the Son could not create.
"through Him all things were created" (As testfied to in genesis and thrones and authorities established in the heavenly realms.


In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2&but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

I am in Christ and the Father as well.

Its the Deity of the Father as the Father living in His Firstborn.

Already demonstrated the distinctions above.

Yes I do believe.
Bu it doesn't help your case.

On that day you will realize that I am in my Father and you are in me and I in you.

Would you apply the "literal one" interpretation of John 14:10 to John 14:20?
That we became literally Jesus?

 

[Capbook]

The Son, The Word, God became flesh.

When was the creation week done through the Word? In the OT or in the NT?
When was the Word became flesh or born as Son? In the OT or NT?
When was the Word named Jesus? In the OT or the NT?

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,

Yes, the Word was God in the beginning, before became flesh.

Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16

Yes, 1 Timothy 3:16 is in the New Testament. The Word already became flesh.

 

[Capbook]

The Son of God, God, the Word became flesh.

Was the Word became flesh in the OT?
Any OT verse that state the speech/logos Word, referred as begotten, firstborn, etc?

 

[Capbook]

The Word is the Son.

Yes, but the Word, the speech/logos in the OT was not yet the Son, the begotten.
The word "begotten" with Strong#H3205, in Hebrew "ילד yâlad" Bible lexicon definition means as - beget, of child birth, to be born, to beget a child and etc.

That by definition the Son was yet to be born, and when was that?
Did not happen in the Old Testament.

Psa 2:7 "I will surely tell of the decree of the LORD: He said to Me, 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.
Psa 2:7 "I will surelyH3588 tellH5608 of the N1decreeH2706 of the LORDH3068: He saidH559 to Me, 'You are R1My SonH1121, TodayH3117 I have begottenH3205 You.

H3205
ילד yâlad
BDB Definition:
1) to bear, bring forth, beget, gender, travail
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to bear, bring forth
1a1a) of child birth
1a1b) of distress (simile)
1a1c) of wicked (behaviour)
1a2) to beget
1b) (Niphal) to be born
1c) (Piel)
1c1) to cause or help to bring forth
1c2) to assist or tend as a midwife
1c3) midwife (participle)
1d) (Pual) to be born
1e) (Hiphil)
1e1) to beget (a child)
1e2) to bear (figuratively - of wicked bringing forth iniquity)

The Son is God just as the Father is God.

Yes, as before He became Son, He was the Word, that was God but not yet stated as the Son or Jesus.
To Biblical, can you state a Bible text in the OT that say the Word, the speech/logos is the Son named Jesus.
As I believe all the speeches/voice in the OT is uttered by the Word, and was named YHWH, Jesus implied it. (John 5:37)

God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16

Yes, the book of Timothy is in the New Testament, the Word already became flesh.