For those who do not believe that Jesus Christ is YHWH, Almighty God...

[KV-44-v1]

God, our Father is the only true God

It's funny how unirtaians always ASSUME this means"God is the only Person Who is God" when it doesn't mean that at all.
"The Son is the only true God" is just as true because Jesus is God though not the Father.

 

[KV-44-v1]

Why do you deny what the Scriptures say and God’s Son?

Because he is a fallen **ONE-PERSON** human being, so he projects his nature onto God out of ignorance.

 

[GodsGrace]

You completely ignore "The Spirit OF the Sovereign Lord is upon Me"
"The SPIRIT OF YOUR FATHER" -speaking through you
"MY SPIRIT" -Fathers Promise

My belief understanding for the 50th time. Its not going to CHANGE
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Was Jesus Christ not sent as a Person with a human nature AND a divine nature?
It was the will of Father that Son be crucified to forgive the sins of humanity...
past, present and future.

To be saved we must know Father:

John 6:37
37“All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.

When we come to know Father and accept His saving grace...
He will give us to Jesus because it is Jesus that saves us.

And does the Old Testament not state that GOD HIMSELF will save us?
Jesus is God come to earth.
The human nature.
AND
The divine nature.

To save mankind,,,it took both...
the human and the divine natures.
The Savior had to be both A MAN and GOD....
God made the bridge to Himself so that mankind could cross it.


Yahweh is the Savior.
Jesus is the Savior.
There is only one savior.

There is only one God:


Isaiah 45:5
5“I am the LORD, and there is no other;
Besides Me there is no God.

He is the Savior:

Ezekiel 34:11
11For thus says the Lord GOD, “Behold, I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out.

34:15
15“I will feed My flock and I will lead them to rest,” declares the Lord GOD.


There is only one God....but another God is announced:

John 10:11
11“I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.


This other God that has been announced has authority as God does.


18“No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This


Who is this other God?

Isaiah 53:5-6
5But He was pierced through for our transgressions,
He was crushed for our iniquities;
The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him,
And by His scourging we are healed.

6All of us like sheep have gone astray,
Each of us has turned to his own way;
But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all
To fall on Him.

It is Jesus.

Paul tells us that Jesus is God and Savior:

Titus 2:13
13looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

OUR GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR.

But there is only One God, as stated in Isaiah.

So who is this other God?
Are there two Gods?


Please reconcile all of the above passages.

for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

You say there is but one God from whom all things came?

And yet, the NT teaches that all things come from Jesus.

Colossians 1:
16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.


Hebrews 1:2
2in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.


You state that God, the one true God made all things.
Paul teaches that Jesus created everything.
Are there two Gods?
Or is Jesus God?

You are creating a conflict in scripture.
There can be no conflict in scripture.

Please reconcile the above discrepancy.

"HOLY" "SPIRIT"

The simple answer is that those who sin against God's "Holy" Spirit will not be forgiven because that's the judgment of the one who judges.

EVERY sin is a sin against the one who judges.

The difference between Deity and our spirit is God can send it into the world and yet remain in heaven.

The Spirit acts according to the will of the mind of God
And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

God Father remains in heaven.
Man cannot look upon the Father.
When God appears in the Old Testament it is always Jesus that is seen.
Jesus existed before He was born as a man.
He existed as the 2nd Person of the Holy Tirnity.

 

[Capbook]

Greetings again Capbook

The reason why the Samaritans did not immediately receive the Holy Spirit Gifts was because it seems that Philip had not been granted the power to pass on these Gifts. For this reason John and Peter came and passed on the Holy Spirit Gifts. This fact has no real bearing on the mention of the Holy Spirit in Matthew 28:19.

Kind regards
Trevor

Greetings again Trevor,

The baptisms done by the apostles and disciples in the "name" of Jesus is within the concept of Matthew 28:19 as Jesus represents the fullness of the Godhead.

Best regards,
Capbook

 

[Capbook]

You completely ignore "The Spirit OF the Sovereign Lord is upon Me"
"The SPIRIT OF YOUR FATHER" -speaking through you
"MY SPIRIT" -Fathers Promise

You did not explain why the Father and the Holy Spirit differs when it comes to the blasphemers forgiveness.
Do you mean that when someone say "my" it refers to ownership?
How about Thomas when he said to Jesus "My" Lord and "my" God, do that mean he owns Jesus?
I believe the word "mine" is better term to proclaim ownership.

John 20:28 Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

John 16:14 "He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.
John 16:15 "All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.

My belief understanding for the 50th time. Its not going to CHANGE

Yes, that's true when our mind is closed to see things which the preconceived beliefs cannot explain.
I mean the, why the Father and the Holy Spirit differs in wills when it comes to blasphemer's forgiveness.

Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

The word "only" doe not always mean only one.
We know that Isaac had and older brother named Ishmael, and others from Abraham's partners.(Gen 22:2)

Read the context of 1John 5:10,11,12,20, Jesus is the eternal life and true God.

Gen 22:2 He said, "Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you.

for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Do you doubt the Father words when He testified that Jesus is God and Lord? (Heb 1:8,9,10)

"HOLY" "SPIRIT"

The simple answer is that those who sin against God's "Holy" Spirit will not be forgiven because that's the judgment of the one who judges.

Yes, the Holy Spirit judges not to forgive, while the Father will forgive.

The difference between Deity and our spirit is God can send it into the world and yet remain in heaven.

Yes, He also send Jesus the only begotten God, doesn't mean He owns Jesus, like the Holy Spirit they're separate and distinct persons.

(NAS95) John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

The Spirit acts according to the will of the mind of God

No, in terms of blasphemer's forgiveness.

And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

This verse proves that the Holy Spirit is a person as He has a mind that decides not to forgive His blasphemers.

 

[Capbook]

I am still surprised by what Capbook is saying and it would be nice if other Trinitarians would moderate his unusual conclusions.

Kind regards
Trevor

Greetings again Trevor,

May I know what I've said that surprised you?

Best regards,
Capbook

 

[Randy]

You did not explain why the Father and the Holy Spirit differs when it comes to the blasphemers forgiveness.
Do you mean that when someone say "my" it refers to ownership?
How about Thomas when he said to Jesus "My" Lord and "my" God, do that mean he owns Jesus?
I believe the word "mine" is better term to proclaim ownership.

John 20:28 Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

John 16:14 "He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.
John 16:15 "All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.

Yes, that's true when our mind is closed to see things which the preconceived beliefs cannot explain.
I mean the, why the Father and the Holy Spirit differs in wills when it comes to blasphemer's forgiveness.

The word "only" doe not always mean only one.
We know that Isaac had and older brother named Ishmael, and others from Abraham's partners.(Gen 22:2)

Read the context of 1John 5:10,11,12,20, Jesus is the eternal life and true God.

Gen 22:2 He said, "Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you.

Do you doubt the Father words when He testified that Jesus is God and Lord? (Heb 1:8,9,10)

Yes, the Holy Spirit judges not to forgive, while the Father will forgive.

Yes, He also send Jesus the only begotten God, doesn't mean He owns Jesus, like the Holy Spirit they're separate and distinct persons.

(NAS95) John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

No, in terms of blasphemer's forgiveness.

This verse proves that the Holy Spirit is a person as He has a mind that decides not to forgive His blasphemers.

I see no point in continuing. We disagree. I know who my Lord is. We differ in regard to His Sonship.

 

[Randy]

Was Jesus Christ not sent as a Person with a human nature AND a divine nature?
It was the will of Father that Son be crucified to forgive the sins of humanity...
past, present and future.

To be saved we must know Father:

The Son who was, His spirit, did descend into the body that was prepared for Him and the Father was living in Him as the Father doing His work. The glory of oneness Jesus spoke of. God spoke to us by His Son in these last days.
God did choose to reconcile all things to HIMSELF through Christs blood on the cross. Hence the NT's statement the ministry of reconcilation.

John 6:37
37“All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.

True "They shall all be taught by God" Those who listen and learn from the "Father" go to Jesus. That witness must be by HIS SPIRIT.

When we come to know Father and accept His saving grace...
He will give us to Jesus because it is Jesus that saves us.

TRUE as in those who belong to God can accept the "Truth" Jesus testied. "Hear what God says" In addition God grants Godly repentance -a new heart. "Repent and believe"

And does the Old Testament not state that GOD HIMSELF will save us?
Jesus is God come to earth.
The human nature.
AND
The divine nature.

As Jesus stated -For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
As Jesus read from the scroll -the Spirit of the one who sent and annointed Him was upon Him. God, our Father not a 3rd person.
he Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me, because the LORD has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners,

Yes -a Son was promismed who is called Mighty God, prince of peace, everlasting Father.
Jesus has always been that Son.

To save mankind,,,it took both...
the human and the divine natures.
The Savior had to be both A MAN and GOD....
God made the bridge to Himself so that mankind could cross it.

The eternal life with the Father in the beginning did appear in flesh and the Son of Man laid down His life in accordence to the will of His God and Father.
We differ on His Sonship.

Yahweh is the Savior.
Jesus is the Savior.
There is only one savior.

There is only one God:

There is only one true God. God our Father. Jesus acted as His agent.

Isaiah 45:5
5“I am the LORD, and there is no other;
Besides Me there is no God.

The fullness of the Deity of the First and Last lives in Christ as the Father and they are one. In that context Jesus is all that the Father is, (Mighty God), not another God but the First and the Last but yet, His spirit, is the beginning of the creation of God.

He is the Savior:

Ezekiel 34:11
11For thus says the Lord GOD, “Behold, I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out.

34:15
15“I will feed My flock and I will lead them to rest,” declares the Lord GOD.


There is only one God....but another God is announced:

John 10:11
11“I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.


This other God that has been announced has authority as God does.

Jesus in context is the First and last. He is not identified as another God, He and the Father are ONE.

18“No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This

Yes -this command He received from His God and Father.

Who is this other God?

Isaiah 53:5-6
5But He was pierced through for our transgressions,
He was crushed for our iniquities;
The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him,
And by His scourging we are healed.

6All of us like sheep have gone astray,
Each of us has turned to his own way;
But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all
To fall on Him.

From God through His Son. Even the Spirit that was poured out in these last days. The Father in all His fullness lives in His Son. Again they are One.

It is Jesus.

Paul tells us that Jesus is God and Savior:

Titus 2:13
13looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

Jesus is the radience of the Glory of God
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being,

In Him does live the Father in fullness.

Jesus tells you -My God and YOUR God. My Father and YOUR Father.

Paul is clear, "grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" thats 2 persons that I read,

Knowing 2 persons as importance in salvation and Jesus refers the other person as the only true God.
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Honor and power and glory is stated to those two persons.
Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”

Those who declared this in the beginning called themselves "Christains"
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

OUR GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR.

But there is only One God, as stated in Isaiah.

So who is this other God?
Are there two Gods?


Please reconcile all of the above passages.







You say there is but one God from whom all things came?

Thats my belief-One God, "the Father" from whom all things come. One Christ who is Lord through all things come. Didn't Jesus state He did not come on His own but the Father sent Him and it wasn't His message but the message of the one who sent Him. The source of truth Jesus testfied to is the one living in Him. God, our Father. His Spirit is a spirit of truth.

Just 2 -The throne of God and the Lamb forever.

And yet, the NT teaches that all things come from Jesus.

Colossians 1:
16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.

through Him and for Him speaks of another. "The Deity of the First and Last" living in Him created just as that Deity spoke to us in these last days. "through Him all things were made"
He was Gods agent in the creation. God created by, through His SON. He was a Son in the beginning. The Firstborn.

Hebrews 1:2
2in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

Why the need hasn't Yahweh always been above His creation and hasn't it always belonged to Him?
The very reasoning speaks against coeternal. "You haved loved righteousness and hated wickedness THEREFORE you God has set you above your companions.

About the true God
“You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.”

You state that God, the one true God made all things.
Paul teaches that Jesus created everything.
Are there two Gods?
Or is Jesus God?

Again through Him and for Him speaks of another.

Even the creed states so "though Him all things were made"

Hebews 1 Same writer in regard to the Son who I believe understood Jesus's Sonship -The Firstborn
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2&but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

You are creating a conflict in scripture.
There can be no conflict in scripture.

Not so.

Please reconcile the above discrepancy.

EVERY sin is a sin against the one who judges.


God Father remains in heaven.
Man cannot look upon the Father.
When God appears in the Old Testament it is always Jesus that is seen.
Jesus existed before He was born as a man.
He existed as the 2nd Person of the Holy Tirnity.

 

[Capbook]

I see no point in continuing. We disagree. I know who my Lord is. We differ in regard to His Sonship.

I believe we will agree in John 17:3, that speaks of eternal life to know the Father and the Son.

 

[Randy]

I believe we will agree in John 17:3, that speaks of eternal life to know the Father and the Son.

It should be clear to you as well the Spirit witness's as the PERSON of the Father.

Jesus-"Those who listen and learn from the Father come to ME"

Also the ONE and same Spirit is sent in Jesus name. So in the believer that ONE Spirit conveys the will and mind of Christ. The persona of Christ.

I'm trying to get through to you the Spirit of God is not a 3rd person. It is in knowing the Father and Son which is two by my math.

But Jesus didn't state this: This is eternal life that they know us the only true God.

So we will disagree on Jesus being coeternal and the Spirit being a 3rd distinct person.

It is the Father and Son who has made their Home with us. 2
Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

The Son asked and the Father sent no 3rd person was involved.
“If you love me, keep my commands. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth.

The Father is the source of truth Jesus testfied to. "His" message as in a Spirit of truth. He sent His Son as Jesus did not come on His own.

This is not hidden.
"Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."

 

[Capbook]

It should be clear to you as well the Spirit witness's as the PERSON of the Father.

If I mention that the Father and the Holy Spirit differs in terms of forgiveness to blasphemers, you will then say, "we agree to disagree."
If your belief that the Spirit witness's as the person of the Father, you have to defend why they differ.
Because if you cannot defend that Biblically, your faith will be in question.

Jesus-"Those who listen and learn from the Father come to ME"

Also the ONE and same Spirit is sent in Jesus name. So in the believer that ONE Spirit conveys the will and mind of Christ. The persona of Christ.

Again, defend why Jesus and the Holy Spirit also differs about forgiveness to blasphemers.
Prove your belief Biblically.

I'm trying to get through to you the Spirit of God is not a 3rd person. It is in knowing the Father and Son which is two by my math.

Yes, if you know Who the Father and the Son truly is, it is the Holy Spirit that guide you to the truth.
I always notice that you deny the guidance of the Holy Spirit, as you always mentioned only the two denying the One who guide you to the truth.
Do that mean that you were not guided by the Holy Spirit?
Why deny the truth guider?

Joh 16:13 "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

But Jesus didn't state this: This is eternal life that they know us the only true God.

Is the Almighty God the Father words Himself not believable? (Heb 1:8-10)
I do notice again, the denial of the Holy Spirit's guidance to the truth by denying His presence and guidance, and to the Father's words Himself.

So we will disagree on Jesus being coeternal and the Spirit being a 3rd distinct person.

Yes, because the Word that was God from the beginning was eternal, Who became flesh, named Jesus Whom with the Word's God nature, and so is the Holy Spirit is eternal.
The Holy Spirit is the third person that guide us into all the truth.
If we understand what truly the verse state, it means the Holy Spirit makes us understand.
Without His guidance, we resort to our own private interpretation.

Heb 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

It is the Father and Son who has made their Home with us. 2

Again you deny the presence of the One who made us understand what the Bible state.
Our spiritual life always needs the guidance of the Holy Spirit, it is bad to deny His presence.

Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

Did you obey and undergo what Christ last and final command about baptism in Mat 28:19?

The Son asked and the Father sent no 3rd person was involved.
“If you love me, keep my commands. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth.

Yes, here you quote the role of the Holy Spirit as the Spirit of truth, but always deny His presence.
We cannot understand what the Word of God means without the guidance of the Holy Spirit of truth. Yes or no?

The Father is the source of truth Jesus testfied to. "His" message as in a Spirit of truth. He sent His Son as Jesus did not come on His own.

Can you give us a verse that says the "Father is the source of truth?"
I'd like to know, as my Bible resource fail to give me. (NAS95)

This is not hidden.
"Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."

Again, if you truly understand what that verse means, it is the guidance of the Holy Spirit that makes you understand what it means.
Or else you can say you don't need the guidance of the Holy Spirit to every Bible verse and deny His presence due to your reliance to your own sharp comprehension.

 

[KV-44-v1]

The Son who was, His spirit,

Are you claiming they are the same? Yes or no?

did descend into the body that was prepared for Him

So God descended into the body, yes?

and the Father was living in Him as the Father doing His work.

The Father was living in Jesus. So Jesus is God then!!

The glory of oneness Jesus spoke of.

Not possible in your worldview because you believe "Jesus isn't God".

God did choose to reconcile all things to HIMSELF

Does that Verse say God or does it say the Father?

through Christs blood on the cross.

Wouldn't it make sense for Him to reconcile all things by way of Himself rather than by a created being with a beginning? That makes no sense at all.

True "They shall all be taught by God"

Does it say God or the Father?

So then NOT by the Son?

Those who listen and learn from the "Father" go to Jesus.

But you said the Son isn't God.
So to learn from the Father, Who is God but not the Son, you have to go to the Son, Who is God but not the Father. Right?

That witness must be by HIS SPIRIT.

In addition God grants Godly repentance -a new heart.

Can Jesus do that? Yes or No?

As Jesus stated -For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
As Jesus read from the scroll -the Spirit of the one who sent and annointed Him was upon Him. God, our Father not a 3rd person.

Yes -a Son was promismed Who is called Mighty God, Prince of peace,
Jesus has always been that Son.

Thanks for disproving your own belief and blatantly admitting Jesus is God.

everlasting Father

Where was Jesus called that? Verse?

The eternal life with the Father in the beginning did appear in flesh

Verse?

and the Son of Man laid down His life in accordence to the will of

Of the Father. Again just because God's nature baffles your small mind does NOT. change anything. Humans project their INFERIOR NATURE onto God. Like how athiests accuse God of being "evil".

His God and Father.

Verse?

There is only one true God.

Equally as valid as the Son being the only true God. This is NOT a disproof of the Trinity because all three Persons are God. That is ONLY dealing with HOW MANY GODS there are.

God our Father. Jesus acted as His agent.

As the Father's you mean?
Again, if God is Omnipotent why not do things Himself? Almost like Jesus IS God (though not the Father).

The fullness of the Deity of the First and Last lives in Christ

That would overwhelm and destroy a created being. Thanks for disproving your belief again.

In that context Jesus is all that the Father is, (Mighty God),

Except God, according to you! Which contradicts "all".

not another God

Correct. Thanks for saying the same thing Trinitarians have constantly said for a long time.

but the First and the Last

Is God the First and the Last?

but yet, His spirit, is the beginning of the creation of God.

beginning of the creation of God.

Now you are calling God created??

He is not identified as another God,

Exactly, but your worldview cannot handle the Trinity Truth, and your mind doesn't seem to.

He and the Father are ONE.

One God. So now you are again disproving your belief.
Actually, you are now in a way stating that Jesus is the Father!!

His God and Father.

Verse?

From God through His Son.

Why would God do it through a created being? That makes no sense.

Jesus is the radience of the Glory of God

IS?? But He is a "created being" and "weaker than" the Father according to you!!

The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being,

So Jesus is God then. If what you say were true then that has not gone on for eternity, but only for a limited time. Thus, belittling God!!

In Him does live the Father in fullness.

So has the Father 'lived in Him' eternally or no? Either Jesus had a beginning or not.

Jesus tells you -My God and YOUR God. My Father and YOUR Father.

Paul is clear, "grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" thats 2 Persons that I read,

Yes. Two Persons but one God.
He could also have said "from God."

Knowing 2 persons as importance in salvation and Jesus refers the other person as the only true God.

As opposed to all the other deities like zues and thor?

Honor and power and glory is stated to those two Persons.

 

[Randy]

If I mention that the Father and the Holy Spirit differs in terms of forgiveness to blasphemers, you will then say, "we agree to disagree."
If your belief that the Spirit witness's as the person of the Father, you have to defend why they differ.
Because if you cannot defend that Biblically, your faith will be in question.

Again, defend why Jesus and the Holy Spirit also differs about forgiveness to blasphemers.
Prove your belief Biblically.

Yes, if you know Who the Father and the Son truly is, it is the Holy Spirit that guide you to the truth.
I always notice that you deny the guidance of the Holy Spirit, as you always mentioned only the two denying the One who guide you to the truth.
Do that mean that you were not guided by the Holy Spirit?
Why deny the truth guider?

Joh 16:13 "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

Is the Almighty God the Father words Himself not believable? (Heb 1:8-10)
I do notice again, the denial of the Holy Spirit's guidance to the truth by denying His presence and guidance, and to the Father's words Himself.

Yes, because the Word that was God from the beginning was eternal, Who became flesh, named Jesus Whom with the Word's God nature, and so is the Holy Spirit is eternal.
The Holy Spirit is the third person that guide us into all the truth.
If we understand what truly the verse state, it means the Holy Spirit makes us understand.
Without His guidance, we resort to our own private interpretation.

Heb 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Again you deny the presence of the One who made us understand what the Bible state.
Our spiritual life always needs the guidance of the Holy Spirit, it is bad to deny His presence.

Did you obey and undergo what Christ last and final command about baptism in Mat 28:19?


Yes, here you quote the role of the Holy Spirit as the Spirit of truth, but always deny His presence.
We cannot understand what the Word of God means without the guidance of the Holy Spirit of truth. Yes or no?

Can you give us a verse that says the "Father is the source of truth?"
I'd like to know, as my Bible resource fail to give me. (NAS95)

Again, if you truly understand what that verse means, it is the guidance of the Holy Spirit that makes you understand what it means.
Or else you can say you don't need the guidance of the Holy Spirit to every Bible verse and deny His presence due to your reliance to your own sharp comprehension.

We disagree.

How do you not know this?
Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me.

For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.

Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe

 

[JesusFan]

We disagree.

How do you not know this?
Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me.

For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.

Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe

The ftaher used Jesus to be the Supreme Creator, so both of them are equally Yahweh

 

[Randy]

The ftaher used Jesus to be the Supreme Creator, so both of them are equally Yahweh

God created by His Son.
God spoke to us by His Son in these last days.

The Son calls the one on the throne of God His God and His Father.

We are not going to agree.
Jesus stated the Father was greater than Him and greater than all.

 

[Capbook]

We disagree.

How do you not know this?
Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me.

For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.

Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe

Did you truly understand all the verses you quote Randy?
Is it your smart and sharp comprehension that make you understand all the Spiritual words from the Bible?
Or you understand all by the guidance of the Holy Spirit of truth?
Do that make them three with different roles for mankind's salvation?
Or just two in the absence of the Holy Spirit, the truth guider?

 

[GodsGrace]

Greetings GodsGrace,

Hello again. In recent times I am usually only active on this forum and another where we have had recent contact.

I am still surprised by what Capbook is saying and it would be nice if other Trinitarians would moderate his unusual conclusions.

Kind regards
Trevor

Have time today.
Will check out those posts.

 

[GodsGrace]

Greetings again Capbook

The reason why the Samaritans did not immediately receive the Holy Spirit Gifts was because it seems that Philip had not been granted the power to pass on these Gifts. For this reason John and Peter came and passed on the Holy Spirit Gifts. This fact has no real bearing on the mention of the Holy Spirit in Matthew 28:19.

Kind regards
Trevor

I'm not finding anything wrong with what the other member believes.

I do find that baptism is a complicated topic.
Some verses seem as though we receive the Holy Spirit before baptism.
Some at baptism.
Some after baptism.

But this would be too far off the topic at hand.

 

[Randy]

Did you truly understand all the verses you quote Randy?
Is it your smart and sharp comprehension that make you understand all the Spiritual words from the Bible?
Or you understand all by the guidance of the Holy Spirit of truth?
Do that make them three with different roles for mankind's salvation?
Or just two in the absence of the Holy Spirit, the truth guider?

yes, I understand His words and meaning. I know Him and He knows me.
Him being Christ Jesus the Lord.

How about you?

 

[GodsGrace]

The Son who was, His spirit, did descend into the body that was prepared for Him and the Father was living in Him as the Father doing His work. The glory of oneness Jesus spoke of. God spoke to us by His Son in these last days.
God did choose to reconcile all things to HIMSELF through Christs blood on the cross. Hence the NT's statement the ministry of reconcilation.

You're not responding to my post.
Maybe I wrote too much...sorry.

I would have liked a reply to this:

And does the Old Testament not state that GOD HIMSELF will save us?
Jesus is God come to earth.
The human nature.
AND
The divine nature.

To save mankind,,,it took both...
the human and the divine natures.
The Savior had to be both A MAN and GOD....
God made the bridge to Himself so that mankind could cross it.


Yahweh is the Savior.
Jesus is the Savior.
There is only one savior.

True "They shall all be taught by God" Those who listen and learn from the "Father" go to Jesus. That witness must be by HIS SPIRIT.

TRUE as in those who belong to God can accept the "Truth" Jesus testied. "Hear what God says" In addition God grants Godly repentance -a new heart. "Repent and believe"

I don't know what this has to do with Jesus being God.
I think my post may not have been clear.

As Jesus stated -For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
As Jesus read from the scroll -the Spirit of the one who sent and annointed Him was upon Him. God, our Father not a 3rd person.

You obviously do not believe in the Trinity.
Are you aware that to be defined as Christian, a person is required to believe in the Trinity?

The reason is that the NT teaches that Jesus is God...this is the main, core belief of Christianity.

Otherwise, we're practicing idolatry.
Right?

he Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me, because the LORD has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners,

Jesus was just reading from the OT.
I used the OT to support my contention that Jesus is God ,
but you totally ignored THAT.

We must accept all of the bible.
Jesus declared Himself to be the Messiah.
Those listening to Him were not happy and they began to stone Him.

Why?

Yes -a Son was promismed who is called Mighty God, prince of peace, everlasting Father.
Jesus has always been that Son.

Great!
So the Son was called the Mighty God.
So Jesus is the mighty God !
Happy we could agree on this.

There is only one mighty God....
Looks like Father and Son are the same Divine being.

The eternal life with the Father in the beginning did appear in flesh and the Son of Man laid down His life in accordence to the will of His God and Father.
We differ on His Sonship.

What was in the beginning that appeared?
John said that the WORD was in the beginning and then became flesh.
What is the Word?
Was it always with God Father?

There is only one true God. God our Father. Jesus acted as His agent.

If Jesus was only an agent....
then why do you agree that He was called MIGHTY GOD?
See your comment just above.

The fullness of the Deity of the First and Last lives in Christ as the Father and they are one. In that context Jesus is all that the Father is, (Mighty God), not another God but the First and the Last but yet, His spirit, is the beginning of the creation of God.

You're saying that Jesus is the Father?
Then why was Jesus praying to the Father in the Garden?
It sounds as if Jesus might have a split personality.
Is this what you believe?

Jesus in context is the First and last. He is not identified as another God, He and the Father are ONE.

Father and Son are one in BEING.
But they are two separate Persons.
They each have specific tasks, they speak to each other and refer to each other.
They are different Persons...but both are God...

Yes -this command He received from His God and Father.

From God through His Son. Even the Spirit that was poured out in these last days. The Father in all His fullness lives in His Son. Again they are One.

Actually Randy,,,,the WORD was WITH THE FATHER.
Not the other way around.

Jesus is the radience of the Glory of God
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being,

In Him does live the Father in fullness.

Jesus tells you -My God and YOUR God. My Father and YOUR Father.

Right.
Because God Father IS the Father.
This does not diminish the role of Son or His divine Personhood.

Paul is clear, "grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" thats 2 persons that I read,

So is Paul causing conflict?
Paul is disinquishing between Father, that will always be in heaven and cannot be seen by man....
and Jesus, the divine man, who was visible at the time.
Jesus is the Lord of mankind...He IS our Lord.
This does not mean that He is not God.


Here he states that Jesus is God:

Titus 2:13
13looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

What do do with this type of statement?
Just ignore it?

Knowing 2 persons as importance in salvation and Jesus refers the other person as the only true God.
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Honor and power and glory is stated to those two persons.
Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”

I believe that glory, honor and praise could be given only to the God that we worship.
I don't believe a man could be worshipped.

If glory and honor and praise is given to jesus, then He must surely be God.

Those who declared this in the beginning called themselves "Christains"
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Thats my belief-One God, "the Father" from whom all things come. One Christ who is Lord through all things come. Didn't Jesus state He did not come on His own but the Father sent Him and it wasn't His message but the message of the one who sent Him. The source of truth Jesus testfied to is the one living in Him. God, our Father. His Spirit is a spirit of truth.

Just 2 -The throne of God and the Lamb forever.

through Him and for Him speaks of another. "The Deity of the First and Last" living in Him created just as that Deity spoke to us in these last days. "through Him all things were made"
He was Gods agent in the creation. God created by, through His SON. He was a Son in the beginning. The Firstborn.

Why the need hasn't Yahweh always been above His creation and hasn't it always belonged to Him?
The very reasoning speaks against coeternal. "You haved loved righteousness and hated wickedness THEREFORE you God has set you above your companions.

About the true God
“You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.”

Again through Him and for Him speaks of another.

Even the creed states so "though Him all things were made"

Hebews 1 Same writer in regard to the Son who I believe understood Jesus's Sonship -The Firstborn
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2&but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.


Not so.

There is only ONE creator.
Above you stated that Jesus did create.
Thus, jesus must be God.

God APPOINTED Son to come to die for our sins....
this is what it means.

It does not negate the fact that the Son was with God as the Word for all time and was not a created being.

And that WORD became flesh and dwelt among us.