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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Four views of the "Endtimes"
- Thread starter Willie T
- Start date
edited reba
This guy says if you believe any of the book of Revelation is in the future, then you can not operate in the kingdom.
LOL!!!
Does anyone honestly believe that all of the Book of Revelation is past?
Does anyone honestly believe we Have to believe in Preterism to lead people to Christ, Teach the Bible, pray for the sick, cast out devils...
Edited
More of the teachings of the Emergent Church.
JLB
This guy says if you believe any of the book of Revelation is in the future, then you can not operate in the kingdom.
LOL!!!
Does anyone honestly believe that all of the Book of Revelation is past?
Does anyone honestly believe we Have to believe in Preterism to lead people to Christ, Teach the Bible, pray for the sick, cast out devils...
Edited
More of the teachings of the Emergent Church.
JLB
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ezrider
Member
Thank you Willie T, I really enjoyed that. He is easy to listen to and his points are simple. I went on and listened to his "Understanding Matthew 24" which I believe must have been the second part to this video. A lot of very good food for thought in there. I will have to check out his blogs.
Thanks again.
Thanks again.
Actually, that is not even close to what He said.
Word for word.
Starting at 56:20
"If you hold to any of the futurist views, you can not operate and live in the kingdom"
If a person believes that Revelation 19 , which is Christ Jesus Coming at the end of the age to Gather His people at the Resurrection and Rapture is in the future, then he/she can not live or operate in the kingdom?
11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. Revelation 19:11-16
This event only happens once and encompasses the whole earth with all the kings of the earth.
so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28
Jesus Christ walked this earth and died on the cross for our sins, that we may be translated out of the dominion of darkness into His Kingdom.
He will come a second time...
Not a third time, but a second time.
Anyone who teaches the book of Revelation is past, is teaching the resurrection is past!
Simple as that.
JLB
Don't run your head into a brick wall, EZ. Some people will only ever see what they want to see.
You're welcome. I like his style, and that he simply reads what is in the Bible without all the typical elaborations and embellishments.
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11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. 17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, "Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great." 19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh. Revelation 19:11-21
How many here believe this event is in the past?
JLB
How many here believe this event is in the past?
JLB
Deborah13
Member
I'm very sure I heard him say he believes that Jesus is coming back to this earth.
If you, me, or anyone else really wants to know his view then we can read his book Raptureless online for FREE.
Here is the link....http://raptureless.com/
Scroll to the bottom of the page and there is a link to read it for FREE. I just found this about 15 mins. ago, so I have not read it yet either. But I am not Afraid to read it. I am not going to judge a man's views without doing due diligence if I can.
I have the book, (it's a revised edition, a little longer than the online version) and it brought forth many things I had never even noticed in the Bible, even though I may have read them numerous times.
BTW, he does not believe we won't be "caught up with Jesus". He believes, however, that it is not going to be some secret "escape pod" happening to pull the church out of the bad, bad ol' world.
BTW, he does not believe we won't be "caught up with Jesus". He believes, however, that it is not going to be some secret "escape pod" happening to pull the church out of the bad, bad ol' world.
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Deborah13
Member
Oh Willie now I know why I thought I recognized him. I almost asked you if he was your pastor, Chris. I have been to his website before and watch at least one video. I thought I had read one of his other books but maybe not.
I'm enjoying Raptureless.
JLB,
Here's a quote from the second chapter, The Rapture.
"We have not been resurrected and given our glorious bodies yet; presently, there is a great disparity between Jesus and us;"
He believes that the verses, such as 1 Thess. 4:13-18 are talking about the resurrection and final coming of the Christ, and that it has not happened yet.
He quotes from both Matthew Henry and Adam Clarke's commentaries on these scriptures.
Well if he doesn't believe in the Rapture, then he doesn't believe in the Resurrection.
Again, here is this man's quote from a live teaching, as you can listen for yourself.
Word for word.
Starting at 56:20
"If you hold to any of the futurist views, you can not operate and live in the kingdom"
The Resurrection and Rapture are One Event.
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17
Those who are alive and remain will be literally and physically caught up, with the Resurrected ones.
edited reba
And no wonder, we are taught this very thing in Revelation 12, as depicted by the dragon spewing a flood of deception out of his mouth to carry the woman away with every kind of deceitful doctrine of demons.
So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood.
Revelation 12:15
Which is what Paul by the Spirit teaches us -
Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
1 Timothy 4:1
JLB
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Did you rush to turn it off at the first part of that statement at 56:20? What does he go right on to say?
You know what he said, don't you? Yes, you sure do.
He goes on to say that you would be hypocritical to say you were working in a kingdom you don't believe had appeared yet..... referring back to what he said that you cannot believe in a kingdom that is here and now (as Jesus said several times, that it was), IF you claim that such kingdom will not come until after that rapture you're waiting for to occur at some future date.
turnorburn
Member
Is this the same Jonathan Welton?
Recently, a pastor I know received a provocative Christmas gift from a man in his church. It is a book titled Normal Christianity, written by prophet Jonathan Welton–a leader in the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) movement.
The message of Welton’s book is that the “normal” Christian lifestyle should be characterized by the performance of miracles: walking on water, calming storms, and even raising the dead.
Yet–contrary to the book’s title–Welton’s version of Christianity is anything but normal. Beyond promoting the supernatural phenomena we see in Scripture, he also argues that every Christian should develop magical powers that historically have been practiced by psychics, witches, and occultists.
The end result is that “normal” Christianity turns out to be an unholy marriage between Christianity and the occult.
http://www.spiritoferror.org/2012/12/the-big-lie-normal-christianity/2144
tob
Recently, a pastor I know received a provocative Christmas gift from a man in his church. It is a book titled Normal Christianity, written by prophet Jonathan Welton–a leader in the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) movement.
The message of Welton’s book is that the “normal” Christian lifestyle should be characterized by the performance of miracles: walking on water, calming storms, and even raising the dead.
Yet–contrary to the book’s title–Welton’s version of Christianity is anything but normal. Beyond promoting the supernatural phenomena we see in Scripture, he also argues that every Christian should develop magical powers that historically have been practiced by psychics, witches, and occultists.
The end result is that “normal” Christianity turns out to be an unholy marriage between Christianity and the occult.
http://www.spiritoferror.org/2012/12/the-big-lie-normal-christianity/2144
tob
ezrider
Member
Why are you putting words in somebodies mouth that they did not say. Never once in the 3 hours of video that I have watched of this particular individual did I ever here him say he doesn't believe in the resurrection. I do not believe in the Rapture as you declare it to be, yet I very much believe in the Resurrection, and that of Christ.
Maybe you would better serve yourself by reflecting on why you feel compelled to put words into peoples mouths that they simply did not say. Just saying, the hem of your garment is looking a little tattered and frayed.
To walk in the Kingdom of Heaven requires Faith as we walk after the Spirit, so to depart from the faith is to walk away from the Kingdom of God, turning again to walk after the flesh. So what exactly are these deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons that cause people to depart from the faith and walk again after the flesh? Is not the intent of the doctrine of these devils and deceiving spirits to keep you from entering the kingdom of God. To make you feel unworthy because you can't free yourself from your own sins, or self righteous because you think of yourself better than all those sinners around you. The deceiving spirits want to convince you that the Lord as not delivered on His Promise, and therefore you wait for His return to set up His Kingdom.
But the Kingdom of God is now present here on earth, for the Kingdom is within us; and Promise of the Lord's coming was that he would sent forth the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, the Spirit of Truth into our hearts and there He would dwell with us.
Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Matthew 13:18-23 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while:for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
I guess the question I would have for you JLB; why do you through many of your posts assert that the Kingdom of God in Christ has not been established yet and will be set up sometime in the future?