"God is not the creator, claims academic." - thoughts?

[kenan]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... demic.html

Thoughts or opinions? Does this really change anything if it's correct?

 

[NIGHTMARE]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/6274502/God-is-not-the-Creator-claims-academic.html

Thoughts or opinions? Does this really change anything if it's correct?

I dont agree with her view,,,but the first sentence of Genesis can be translated many ways....BUt the point that should be known is,,,,the earth was created long ago,,,,,,,then God flooded the earth (Not the flood of Noah) then GOd rejuvenated the earth,,,So Genesis 1 is not God creating,,,but reforming what was once there........

 

[kenan]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/6274502/God-is-not-the-Creator-claims-academic.html

Thoughts or opinions? Does this really change anything if it's correct?

I dont agree with her view,,,but the first sentence of Genesis can be translated many ways....BUt the point that should be known is,,,,the earth was created long ago,,,,,,,then God flooded the earth (Not the flood of Noah) then GOd rejuvenated the earth,,,So Genesis 1 is not God creating,,,but reforming what was once there........

Interesting thoughts, thanks

 

[Eyezup]

Amazing!...theologians for years couldn't get it right. It took this long to finally have someone interpret Genesis 1 accurately. NOT! If God is not the creator, then who is?

John 1: 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

NASB

This whole business of God separated things rather than creating it, because it was already there is absurd. The question I have is this...where did the already existing material come from in order for God to do what He did?

That's right, John 1:3 answered that. Where do they get these people?

 

[kenan]

Isaiah 44:6, "This is what the LORD says -- Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God."

Even the OT says otherwise.

Ah well, next :P

 

[seve]

Here's how I read / understand the Genesis.....

Genesis 1:1 is a preface -- the story of the "BEGINNING" before the world was.
Genesis 1:2 tells us the condition of the deep before the creation of the heaven and earth.
Genesis 1:3 documents us the bringing forth of the brightness of the glory of the Son (LIGHT) into this physical world from the invisible realm of the Father - before the world was.
Genesis 1:4 God (Invisible Father) documents us the division of light from darkness.
Genesis 1:5 the evening & the morning the 1st day.

Note: It's also my understanding the the first firmament of heaven was only made on the 2nd day (Gen 1:6~9) not Genesis 1:1. Our earth / world was made on the 3rd day.

JMHO - based on the Scriptures.

 

[seve]

The narrative of Gen. 1:1-2 is speaking of the period BEFORE the 1st Day.

Jesus speaks of this time, in the Garden of Gethsemane:

And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with Thine Own Self (note: the Father is a separate Entity from the Son, Spiritually) with the Glory which I had with Thee BEFORE the world was." John 17:5

If one believes that In the beginning God created the Heavens (Plural) BEFORE the 1st Day, then the Words of Jesus would seem to be in error. If one believes that the 1st Firmament or Heaven was formed on the 2nd Day, then it would agree with Jesus, and would show that Jesus came into the World Before the 1st Heaven was formed.

It was the Son who provided the LIGHT in the beginning (ALPHA) Genesis 1:3 (before the world was)... as he would also be the one to provide the LIGHT in the New Jerusalem in the end (OMEGA) Revelation 21:23.

JMHO, based on the Scriptures.

 

[RND]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/6274502/God-is-not-the-Creator-claims-academic.html

Thoughts or opinions? Does this really change anything if it's correct?

The evidence that God created the earth is the fact that since the beginning of time we have had a seven day week. There is no astrological reason for a seven day week and yet, through history, it has changed not one iota.

A day is equal to the amount of time the earth rotates on it's axis. A month is equal to the amount of time the moon travels around the earth. A year is equal to the amount of time the earth travels around the sun. A week? No astrological reason for it. The week, and the seventh-day, are the only reasons needed to understand that all was created.

http://www.seventh-day.org/weeklycycle.htm

The writings of historians, the records of chronographers, the languages of earth, the calendars of time, and the existence of the Jewish raceâ€â€all testify to the fact that the weekly cycle on our calendars today is the same as in earlier centuriesâ€â€going back to the time of Christ, to Moses, and beyond.

In the beginning, God gave us the weekly seven-day cycle, with the Sabbath as the last day. That pattern has never changed. The seventh day of the week today is the true Bible Sabbath. Our seventh day is the Sabbath which Jesus kept; it was the Sabbath in the time of Moses when the Ten Commandments were written down. Historians and scientists all agree that this is true.

If there had been any change in the weekly cycle, between the time of Creation and the time of Moses, a correction would have been made when the Ten Commandments were given to the Hebrews. From that time, on down to the present, there have always been Jews to testify as to the true Sabbath. It is the same seventh day of the week which is on our calendars. While all the other ancient races are now intermingled, the Jews have been kept separate so they could testify to the fact that our seventh day is the Bible Sabbath!

The yearly cycle has been changed. In 1582, the length of the year was changed to include the leap year. This changeover resulted in October 1582 having only 21 days! But each week remained the same seven days in length. Thursday, October 4, was followed by Friday, October 15. God has divinely protected the weekly cycle down through the ages. If He had not done this, it would be impossible to keep the Sabbath holy, as He has commanded. But, because He has, we have no excuse not to. The seventh day is a holy day, made holy by the command of God. All calendars agree: The seventh day is the Sabbath. Sunday is the first day; the day called "Saturday" in the English langauge is the Sabbath.

However, in 108 of the 160 languages of mankind, the seventh day is called "the Sabbath"! Did you know that? Dr. William Mead Jones of London prepared a chart proving this. (A copy of this chart can be obtained free of charge from the publisher of this book: Ask for "The Chart of the Week" [BS–28-29]. English is one of the few major languages in which the seventh day is not called "the Sabbath."

 

[seve]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/6274502/God-is-not-the-Creator-claims-academic.html

Thoughts or opinions? Does this really change anything if it's correct?

Also, there are several reasons why I believe that the word used in Gen. 1:1 is Heaven and not Heavens. In the context of the text (Gen. 1:1~2), I see the narrative as saying:

In the beginning God Created the heaven (Air) and the Earth (Ground). And the Earth (Ground) was without form, (Dust) and void; (Empty) and darkness was upon the face of the deep, (Water) and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The 3 elements necessary for all physical form are shown... Air, Dust, and Water. Everything which is physical is composed of these 3 elements. The text is correct in showing that the water was not directly created, or spoken into being, because it consists of elements of the Air or Atmosphere. Water is Hydrogen and Oxygen and came from the Atmosphere and is not shown as a separate creation.

This is correct in today's scientific knowledge, but IF the Bible were written by Ancient men, Moses would not have known this. He would have written that in the beginning God created the Air, Dust, and Water, but since God Himself is the Author, He correctly shows that the Atmosphere and Ground were created, and the Water was not a separate creation but instead, came from the Atmosphere.

JMHO... based on the Scriptures

 

[kenan]

The evidence that God created the earth is the fact that since the beginning of time we have had a seven day week. There is no astrological reason for a seven day week and yet, through history, it has changed not one iota.

I just wanted to point out that the 7-day week was not universal, with different cultures counting their days in various other orders roughly between 4 days to 20 days. The 7 day week is most likely a relic of Christendom on the western world.



Also, I'm not sure I understand this idea of the Heavens and Earth being created before the first day, at least with the descriptions you're giving me

edit: although the response above is a good explanation. Can the word be translated as "heaven" instead of "heavens", because that would be an interesting look at Genesis 1:1-2.

 

[seve]

I just wanted to point out that the 7-day week was not universal, with different cultures counting their days in various other orders roughly between 4 days to 20 days. The 7 day week is most likely a relic of Christendom on the western world.

Most people don't know the difference between God's time and man's time. God has but 7 Days and Today is the 6th Day. At the end of this 6th Day, Heaven will be complete, and all believers will be there. When Heaven is brought to Perfection, God will rest for Eternity, the 7th Day, which has No end.

Man's time began on the 4th Day and depends on the movements of the Sun, Moon, and Stars. Since God is present, but also beyond this Universe, He is Not subject to the movements of our Stars. Man's time is temporal and will cease when this Universe is burned. God's time is Eternal.

edit: although the response above is a good explanation. Can the word be translated as "heaven" instead of "heavens", because that would be an interesting look at Genesis 1:1-2.

I am certainly not a Hebrew scholar, but I would point to the meaning of "Heaven" as shown by Strong's.

08064 shamayim {shaw-mah'-yim} dual of an unused singular shameh
{shaw-meh'}

from an unused root meaning to be lofty; TWOT - 2407a; n m

AV - heaven 398, air 21

Both meanings show that the word is Singular, and this agrees with the rest of Genesis Chapter 1. Gen. 2:4-5 show us that the other "Heavens" (Plural) were formed on the 3rd Day.

JMHO, based on the Scriptures.

 

[RND]

I just wanted to point out that the 7-day week was not universal, with different cultures counting their days in various other orders roughly between 4 days to 20 days.

That's true. The Israelites however, of which the Son of God decended did in fact keep a seven day week and as far as I know it doesn't matter what any other people did.

The 7 day week is most likely a relic of Christendom on the western world.

The seven day week was around since the days of creation. It has never changed. Evidence that it is from God can be seen by merely looking at a calendar!

Also, I'm not sure I understand this idea of the Heavens and Earth being created before the first day, at least with the descriptions you're giving me

edit: although the response above is a good explanation. Can the word be translated as "heaven" instead of "heavens", because that would be an interesting look at Genesis 1:1-2.

Are you addressing something I said?

 

[RND]

I just wanted to point out that the 7-day week was not universal, with different cultures counting their days in various other orders roughly between 4 days to 20 days. The 7 day week is most likely a relic of Christendom on the western world.

Most people don't know the difference between God's time and man's time. God has but 7 Days and Today is the 6th Day. At the end of this 6th Day, Heaven will be complete, and all believers will be there. When Heaven is brought to Perfection, God will rest for Eternity, the 7th Day, which has No end.

Man's time began on the 4th Day and depends on the movements of the Sun, Moon, and Stars. Since God is present, but also beyond this Universe, He is Not subject to the movements of our Stars. Man's time is temporal and will cease when this Universe is burned. God's time is Eternal.

edit: although the response above is a good explanation. Can the word be translated as "heaven" instead of "heavens", because that would be an interesting look at Genesis 1:1-2.

I am certainly not a Hebrew scholar, but I would point to the meaning of "Heaven" as shown by Strong's.

08064 shamayim {shaw-mah'-yim} dual of an unused singular shameh
{shaw-meh'}

from an unused root meaning to be lofty; TWOT - 2407a; n m

AV - heaven 398, air 21

Both meanings show that the word is Singular, and this agrees with the rest of Genesis Chapter 1. Gen. 2:4-5 show us that the other "Heavens" (Plural) were formed on the 3rd Day.

JMHO, based on the Scriptures.

seve, I think you accidentally attributed Kenan's comments to me! Change that if you could. Thanks in advance.

BTW, I'm in agreement with Ussher's chronology as well.

 

[lovely]

Hebrews 11:3 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.