Great White Throne Judgement is for everyone... Christians Included

I'm just rereading Chapter 20 of Revelation and noticed... Christians are NOT exculded from the Great White Throne Judgement.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Now, believers are not subject to the lake of fire... but nothing in Chapter 20 gets God's people out of the judgement.
Judged by "their works"... and name NOT found in the Book of Life... Sentence executed.
Judged by "their works"... and name found in the Book of Life... Sentence commuted.

Thoughts?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It’s true. We will have to give an answer for the deeds done in the body. But this is a VERY unpopular truth.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

One gets the impression that Paul is looking forward to this Judgement. He mentions that he will answer and it reminds me of being so ready to take a test that you look forward to it. He knew it would go well and that even a crown of reward was awaiting him. I suspect being constantly aware that this judgement was coming affected his choices and deeds. I suspect that pretending or believe it will never come equally affects choices and deeds. People like to think that the love for God after being saved will be so great that you will automatically deny yourself pleasures and just serve him 24/7. But Jesus talked a great deal about rewards as though that is a good motivation to do what God wants. He did not seem to think that gratitude results in obedience no sweat. He did not seem to think that obeying God for rewards was less or off. He constantly offered rewards.

 

[for_his_glory]

Jesus was made sin for us means Jesus was made a curse for us under the new covenant, (grace) much like the curse of the law of the old covenant (works). It's by faith and not by the deeds of the law that we are justified and made righteous through that of Gods righteousness and not our own.

Jesus was made in the likeness of sinful flesh that we are now dead to the flesh as we walk in the newness of life as we have also risen with Christ and seek those things from above. God laid on Jesus all the sins of the world that Jesus remained sinless. Other words He who knew no sin had to have knowledge of sin in order to refrain from it. We are reconciled back to Gods grace that is Christ Jesus who is our mediator before God as we confess our sin before Him needing Gods grace to forgive us.
Isaiah 53:6,9; John 3:3-6; Romans 3:20;28; 8:3,4; Galatians 3:13; Colossians 3:1-4.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

John 5: 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Some Christians believe in three different judgments:
1. judgment of sheep and goats - Matthew 25:31-33
2. judgment of believers works referred to as the bema seat of Christ - 2 Corinthians 5:10
3. judgement of unbelievers at the great white throne - Revelation 20:11-15

There are not three, but only one final judgment, but two different books opened at the great white throne judgment. Scripture is clear at this time of the great white throne judgment the books that are opened are the book of life where those who are of Christ will be judged for their deeds and receive their promised inheritance of eternal life with the Father as their names were found in the book of life. The other book that is opened is also Christ judgment, John 5:22; John 5:26, 27, of those whose deeds led them to reject Him and they are judged and receive their inheritance of eternal punishment in the lake of fire. God has commited all judgment unto Christ and at His second coming on the last day, John 6:40, all who are alive and asleep in their grave will hear the voice of Christ to rise, John 5:28, 29, and then final judgment is declared. Everyone will stand before God at the great white throne judgment to give an account of themselves as Christ will judge everyone for their deeds. Some will hear "Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world" and others will hear "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels".

When Christ returns on the last day, John 6:40, every eye will see Him come in the clouds the same way He ascended up to heaven, even those who pierced Him, Acts 1:11; Rev 1:7. Notice where it says even those who pierced Him as they are even now in their grave. On the last day the one and only resurrection of all who are in their grave will hear His voice and come forth out of their grave. They that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation, John 5:28, 29.

At the great white throne judgement Jesus will be seated on His throne of glory as God commits all judgment unto the Son, John 5:22. The books will be opened, including the Lamb's book of life, and all will be judged as Jesus will then gather all nations (people) before Him and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats. And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. The sheep will hear Jesus say: "Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world". The goats will hear Jesus say: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels", Matthew 25:31-46.

 

[jerry63935]

Christians are NOT exculded from the Great White Throne Judgement.

your exactly Right the judgement Christians stand at is the bema seat of Christ we give account of the good and the bad. our works will be judged by fire paul used this as a wise master builder quality material works. wood hay stubble is fleshly motivated works . they perish in the fire. Gold silver precious stone is material that has come through the fire .

Job said he knows the way that i take. when he is through trying me i will come forth as Gold Job 23:10

 

[Anaphora]

Gods Elect wont be their for judgement day. Read Roman's chapter 8, and first Peter chapter 1, God judged the Election in the first earth age. Their already judged. Those with free will be judged by Jesus on judgement day. Its written in acts, every one must appear before judgement seat of christ. The exception is the Election. Read Ezekiel chapter 44, the Zadok are the election, they reign with Jesus during the millennium. The election have a Destiny. This isnt complicated. Satan is already judged, Ezekiel chapter 28, he's going into lake of fire. Those with free will face Jesus on judgement day, revelation chapter 20.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Gods Elect wont be their for judgement day. Read Roman's chapter 8, and first Peter chapter 1, God judged the Election in the first earth age. Their already judged. Those with free will be judged by Jesus on judgement day. Its written in acts, every one must appear before judgement seat of christ. The exception is the Election. Read Ezekiel chapter 44, the Zadok are the election, they reign with Jesus during the millennium. The election have a Destiny. This isnt complicated. Satan is already judged, Ezekiel chapter 28, he's going into lake of fire. Those with free will face Jesus on judgement day, revelation chapter 20.

Paul didn’t think this.

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”

He didn’t think it was over before we were born.

 

[for_his_glory]

Gods Elect wont be their for judgement day. Read Roman's chapter 8, and first Peter chapter 1, God judged the Election in the first earth age. Their already judged. Those with free will be judged by Jesus on judgement day. Its written in acts, every one must appear before judgement seat of christ. The exception is the Election. Read Ezekiel chapter 44, the Zadok are the election, they reign with Jesus during the millennium. The election have a Destiny. This isnt complicated. Satan is already judged, Ezekiel chapter 28, he's going into lake of fire. Those with free will face Jesus on judgement day, revelation chapter 20.

I can not agree with this as all will stand before Christ at the Great White Throne Judgement.

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, Rev 19:11-21, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

John 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. (one resurrection, two different judgements)

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

When I read all the scriptures of Jesus sitting at the right hand of God and these scriptures that speak about the judgement of Christ, the Great White throne judgement where God is sitting on the throne and the books that are opened, Matthew 25:31-34; John 5:27-29; 2 Corinthians 5:10; Rev 11:18; Rev 20:4-6; Rev 20:11, 12, this makes me believe that at the Great White Throne judgement God will be sitting on His throne and Jesus is there seated at Gods right hand now on His throne of glory. All (saints and sinners) have been called from their graves (one resurrection) and the sheep are then separated from the goats as the sheep, being those of God and His Son Christ Jesus will stand before the judgement seat of Christ as they have been given their new glorified bodies and their names found in the book of life. They will then be judged for their good works they did as being the continued works of the Lord being in Gods will and receive their crown rewards and their inheritance of the Kingdom of God in the New Jerusalem. The goats being those who are not God's or Christ own will be judged out of the other books and their judgement is that of rejecting God and His Son and their punishment is being cast into the lake of fire.

Scripture never speaks of two resurrections, but only one resurrection, John 5:28, 29 and a second death (Those being Spiritually dead) being that of death and hell being cast into the lake of fire, Rev 20:14, 15. There are two separate judgements, but only one resurrection as all will occur at the same time at the Great White Throne Judgement then will God renew the heaven and earth and usher down the New Jerusalem.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[journeyman]

I believe the presence of Jesus in glory is the "lake of fire",

the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 2Thes.2:8

For our God is a consuming fire. Heb.12:29

the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire 2Thes.2:7-8

Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him. Psa.50:3

the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 2Pet.3:10

 

[for_his_glory]

I believe the presence of Jesus in glory is the "lake of fire",

How do you understand Rev 20:11-15 by what you you have said here as the lake of fire is for all whose names are not found written in the Lamb's book of life will be cast into it.

 

[journeyman]

How do you understand Rev 20:11-15 by what you you have said here as the lake of fire is for all whose names are not found written in the Lamb's book of life will be cast into it.

I believe Rev.20:11-15 is no different from the judgement seat of Christ, where both people and their works are tried by fire.

I believe every person who has ever lived, will be exposed to Christs' presence, yet only the unrepentant will be destroyed by him. To me, being "cast into the lake of fire", simply carries with it the idea that the fire would destroy those who were bound by sin.

Since Paul says the man of sin is consumed by Christs' presence and John sees the beast "cast into the lof", his presence is like a lake, an ocean of fire.

A fire goeth before him, and burneth up his enemies round about. Psa.97:3

Like when he descended in the OT where the mountain top was on fire. Our Lord is returning in an all consuming inferno.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I believe Rev.20:11-15 is no different from the judgement seat of Christ, where both people and their works are tried by fire.

I believe every person who has ever lived, will be exposed to Christs' presence, yet only the unrepentant will be destroyed by him. To me, being "cast into the lake of fire", simply carries with it the idea that the fire would destroy those who were bound by sin.

Since Paul says the man of sin is consumed by Christs' presence and John sees the beast "cast into the lof", his presence is like a lake, an ocean of fire.

A fire goeth before him, and burneth up his enemies round about. Psa.97:3

Like when he descended in the OT where the mountain top was on fire. Our Lord is returning in an all consuming inferno.

Fairly certain the the presence of Jesus and suffering in a fire and brimstone lake aren’t similar experiences. One is cleansing if uncomfortable at the moment, but the other is just plain painful.

 

[for_his_glory]

I believe Rev.20:11-15 is no different from the judgement seat of Christ, where both people and their works are tried by fire.

I believe every person who has ever lived, will be exposed to Christs' presence, yet only the unrepentant will be destroyed by him. To me, being "cast into the lake of fire", simply carries with it the idea that the fire would destroy those who were bound by sin.

Since Paul says the man of sin is consumed by Christs' presence and John sees the beast "cast into the lof", his presence is like a lake, an ocean of fire.

A fire goeth before him, and burneth up his enemies round about. Psa.97:3

Like when he descended in the OT where the mountain top was on fire. Our Lord is returning in an all consuming inferno.

It sounds like you might be mixing up the scriptures that speak of God and Jesus being a consuming fire like that of Deuteronomy 4:24 and Hebrews 12:25-29 as actually being the consuming fire of those who will in the great white throne judgement be cast into the lake of fire in final judgement after Christ returns.

When Christ returns on the last day, John 6:40, every eye will see Him come in the clouds the same way He ascended up to heaven, even those who pierced Him, Acts 1:11; Rev 1:7. Notice where it says even those who pierced Him as they are even now in their grave. On the last day the one and only resurrection of all who are in their grave will hear His voice and come forth out of their grave. They that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation, John 5:28, 29.

At the great white throne judgement Jesus will be seated on His throne of glory as God commits all judgment unto the Son, John 5:22. The books will be opened, including the Lamb's book of life, and all will be judged as Jesus will then gather all nations (people) before Him and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats. And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. The sheep will hear Jesus say: "Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world". The goats will hear Jesus say: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels", Matthew 25:31-46.

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[journeyman]

Fairly certain the the presence of Jesus and suffering in a fire and brimstone lake aren’t similar experiences. One is cleansing if uncomfortable at the moment, but the other is just plain painful.

I believe having ones shame exposed by the light of Christ will be just plain painful. Also temporary.

 

[journeyman]

It sounds like you might be mixing up the scriptures that speak of God and Jesus being a consuming fire like that of Deuteronomy 4:24 and Hebrews 12:25-29 as actually being the consuming fire of those who will in the great white throne judgement be cast into the lake of fire in final judgement after Christ returns.

When Christ returns on the last day, John 6:40, every eye will see Him come in the clouds the same way He ascended up to heaven, even those who pierced Him, Acts 1:11; Rev 1:7. Notice where it says even those who pierced Him as they are even now in their grave. On the last day the one and only resurrection of all who are in their grave will hear His voice and come forth out of their grave. They that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation, John 5:28, 29.

At the great white throne judgement Jesus will be seated on His throne of glory as God commits all judgment unto the Son, John 5:22. The books will be opened, including the Lamb's book of life, and all will be judged as Jesus will then gather all nations (people) before Him and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats. And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. The sheep will hear Jesus say: "Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world". The goats will hear Jesus say: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels", Matthew 25:31-46.

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I understand what you're saying. Nothing you've cited disagrees with what I've said.
I agree with you that all judgement will be done by the Son, which is why the "Great White Throne Judgement" and the judgement seat of Christ are identical. Paul says,

he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 1Cor.3:15

People must also pass through fire to be saved.These are also identical,

And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 2Thes.2:8
with
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet.....These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. Rev.19:20

The "spirit of his mouth" is Jn.12:48.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I believe having ones shame exposed by the light of Christ will be just plain painful. Also temporary.

Well, we disagree. Seeing the blackness of your heart is painful but even a small burn is painful. I’ve had both. I think burning the whole body is more painful and of a different kind.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I understand what you're saying. Nothing you've cited disagrees with what I've said.
I agree with you that all judgement will be done by the Son, which is why the "Great White Throne Judgement" and the judgement seat of Christ are identical. Paul says,

he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 1Cor.3:15

People must also pass through fire to be saved.

That verse says only some are so passing through fire, those with no works of value (wood, hay and stubble.)

These are also identical,

And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 2Thes.2:8
with
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet.....These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. Rev.19:20

The "spirit of his mouth" is Jn.12:48.

Isn’t the sword or spirit of his mouth the Word of God?

 

[journeyman]

I think burning the whole body is more painful and of a different kind.

The beasts whole body is burned into nothing.

 

[journeyman]

That verse says only some are so passing through fire, those with no works of value (wood, hay and stubble.)

Most do understand that verse the way you see it, but Paul didn't end the verse with, "he himself shall be saved (period)."

He ended the verse with, "yet so as by fire", because seeing Jesus as he truly is will destroy the unrepentant,

Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly.....He shall dwell on high.....Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty.....Isa.33:14-17

Isn’t the sword or spirit of his mouth the Word of God?

Yes and after being exposed, the suffering will end, because that person will no longer exist.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Most do understand that verse the way you see it, but Paul didn't end the verse with, "he himself shall be saved (period)."

He ended the verse with, "yet so as by fire", because seeing Jesus as he truly is will destroy the unrepentant,

Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly.....He shall dwell on high.....Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty.....Isa.33:14-17

Yes and after being exposed, the suffering will end, because that person will no longer exist.

So you deny the existence of hell?