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Hell as eternal = Forever and ever,,,and ever,,and,,,

YeshuaGlory

 
Member
Just curious do folks still hold this idea as really real, That is **in the bible ,, God said it**
I thought only God can be eternal, = no beginnings, no termination.
Hell has a beginning,, thus not eternal, a idea which signifies **out of time, no time**
THe word for eternal in all bibles is the greek
https://biblehub.com/greek/166.htm
 
and when I showed a local pastor this greek word in his AUTHORIZED KJV, He said bluntly
**well if aion applies to hell, then the same applies to heaven in Matthew
so I ran home to my computer (did not stay for **church service,,although invited)
as his comment gave me a revelation,,,something that intregued me.
Yep, sure enough, both heaven and hell has the same word AION.
WEll then heaven is not **forever and ever,,,and ever...** AND EVERRRRRR
Glad thats resolved. and does not Paul speak of Yeshua after He has subdued all alllll His enemies and the devils, Yeshua goes back into the Father that God may be **All in All**.
Now i certianly have no answer as to what takes place when we all go back into The father, ,, = Post heaven.
Lets say we did live afterlife **forever and ever,,,and...(( what exactly will will be doing into a ENDLESS future???
I am not buying in. If the word is AION in both afterlife, then heaven can not be forever, But this topic is not about heaven, but in fact about hell being forever and,,,ever,,and,,,
Do folks continue to hold this idea?
and why would they when they can go online Strongs and see forthemselves or ask the local greek scholar at the seminary
 
Hey All,
Do I really need to get all Greek to understand what is said in plain English?

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Matthew 25:45-46 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Revelation 21:1
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

(Anybody know why there is no more sea? What sea is John talking about? The oceans?)

I can understand this. Hell continues. That makes it eternal. Then there's that old argument about how if Jesus said so, it's so.

αἰών • (aiṓn) m (genitive αἰῶνος); third declension. lifetime. generation. a long period of time, eon, epoch, age.

Aion is most often is translated as "eternal."

See what I mean? Does the Greek further my understanding? I already know what eternal means.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
 
Hey All,
Do I really need to get all Greek to understand what is said in plain English?

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Matthew 25:45-46 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Revelation 21:1
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

(Anybody know why there is no more sea? What sea is John talking about? The oceans?)

I can understand this. Hell continues. That makes it eternal. Then there's that old argument about how if Jesus said so, it's so.

αἰών • (aiṓn) m (genitive αἰῶνος); third declension. lifetime. generation. a long period of time, eon, epoch, age.

Aion is most often is translated as "eternal."

See what I mean? Does the Greek further my understanding? I already know what eternal means.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
?????
Have no idea what you are saying here
 
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Death, meaning physical death, and hell only meaning the grave that one is lowered into when they physically die. Now notice vs 14 and death and hell were cast into the lake of fire as at the time of final judgement there will be no more need of either one.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Two eternal destinations as one is eternal life with the Father or eternal torment separated from the Father for all eternity.

We have always been taught hell is a place where non-believers in God go to for eternity, but according to scripture this is not what hell is. Hell is described as the world of the dead, a place where the departed go that have died as being lowered in a grave/pit. There they are kept until the return of Christ to either stand in Gods Great White Throne judgment for those who are not found written in the Lambs Book of Life, Rev 20:11-15, or those who have died in Christ that will stand in his judgment to give an account for the things done here on earth, 2 Corinthians 5:10.

Hell is not the lake of fire as God gives us a description of the lake of fire as in fire and brimstone which can be used literal as in Sodom and Gomorrah burned to ashes and as a metaphor for torment, suffering, punishment or as Matthew 8:12 describes it as outer darkness. The New Testament description is a bottomless pit (abyss) (Revelation 20:3), a lake (Revelation 20:14), darkness (Matthew 25:30), death (Revelation 2:11), destruction (2 Thessalonians 1:9), everlasting torment (Revelation 20:10), a place of wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 25:30), and a place of gradated punishment (Matthew 11:20-24; Luke 12:47-48; Revelation 20:12-13), everlasting fire Matthew 25:41, everlasting punishment, Matthew 25:46, lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance: Hell
Hebrew # 7585 Sheol, Hades, or the world of the dead, grave, hell, pit
Greek # 86 place of departed souls, grave, hell
Greek # 1067 Gehenna, the Valley of the sons of Hinnom South of Jerusalem, figuratively and literal of place of punishment.
Greek # 5020. Tartaroo tar-tar-o'-o from Tartaros (the deepest abyss of Hades); to incarcerate in eternal torment:--cast down to hell.


Hades is the English of the Greek word ᾅδης, just as Gehenna is the English for the Greek word γέεννα and Tartaros is the English word for the Greek word ταρταρόω




 
Hi YeshuaGlory

I agree that hell is not eternal, if by that you mean forever having existed. Hell is a created place. Actually, I believe it's an existence more than a place. A place where every soul will be tormented by their sins and the sins of others for ever and ever. So, once the place of torment comes to existence when God removes Himself from them and is with the saints, it will then be forever lasting. But no, not eternal in the sense of having always existed.

God bless,
Ted
 
No there is no scripture that says the afterlife is forever. The word is AION. YOu are being commited to protestant doctrine over and above God's Word, Not a good path.
 
Just curious do folks still hold this idea as really real, That is **in the bible ,, God said it**
I thought only God can be eternal, = no beginnings, no termination.
Hell has a beginning,, thus not eternal, a idea which signifies **out of time, no time**
THe word for eternal in all bibles is the greek
https://biblehub.com/greek/166.htm

Matthew 25:46
46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”


The KJV uses "everlasting" in its rendering of this verse, which better communicates the perpetual nature of the punishment of hell. Regardless of which word one uses, the idea of "eternal" is obviously not "without beginning or end" but only "without end."
 
Just curious do folks still hold this idea as really real, That is **in the bible ,, God said it**
I thought only God can be eternal, = no beginnings, no termination.
Hell has a beginning,, thus not eternal, a idea which signifies **out of time, no time**
THe word for eternal in all bibles is the greek
https://biblehub.com/greek/166.htm
Yes, but Protestant's are inaccurate, carrying forward Catholic eisegeses from later centuries rather than reverting to apostolic doctrine which is precise, and heartwarming and just.

Hades can't be eternal, its destroyed in the Lake of fire, the fire of which symbolizes the destruction of the way back into life, the "second death":

Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (Rev. 20:14 NKJ)

Only those cast into the Lake of fire who are guilty of "eternal sins" reap everlasting torment. For example, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit:

"but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation "-- (Mk. 3:29 NKJ)

Everyone else cast into the Lake of fire receive what their works deserved, their "part":


"But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." (Rev. 21:8 NKJ)

Its according to their works:

The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. (Rev. 20:13 NKJ)

So the Bingo lady who only went to church to play games and wasn't saved is consumed by the lake of fire and annihilated, while Satan and crew and everyone like him, including those who take the Mark of the Beast, suffer day and night forever and ever in the flame:

The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (Rev. 20:10 NKJ)

So its not one size fits all, it just. According to works.

"Everlasting" means everlasting, as your example shows. Believers receive eternal life when they believe, not just "age lasting for a time", therefore the punishment of the wicked is eternal also:

"And these will go away into everlasting punishment (2851 κόλασις kolasis), but the righteous into eternal life." (Matt. 25:46 NKJ)

However, Protestants generally misinterpret "punishment", it can mean punishment that results from "correction", a cutting them off from the tree of life:

κολάζω.

From κόλος (Hom.) “mutilated,” this means “to cut short,” “to lop” or “to trim.” It is used fig. for a. “to impede,” “to restrain”; b. “to punish,” “to chastise” (in the tragic poets, cf. also Ditt. Syll.3, 108, 42; 305, 80; 454, 18; 1199, 10; Ditt. Or., 90, 28; P. Greci e Latini, 446, 14 etc.). The word seems to be linked with κολάζω, “to maim,” “to cut off.” The sense of punishing probably comes by way of trimming, i.e., cutting off what is superfluous. Punishment is designed to cut off what is bad or disorderly.-Schneider, J. (1964–). κολάζω, κόλασις. In G. Kittel, G. W. Bromiley, & G. Friedrich (Eds.), Theological dictionary of the New Testament (electronic ed., Vol. 3, p. 814). Eerdmans.


The contrast Christ made is to the "second (eternal) death" and "eternal life", the wicked are cut off from the tree of life forever.

That is the condemnation (judgment) the wicked receive, eternal death; the righteous, eternal life.

These will march off into the punishment whose effect is permanent, and the righteous into life eternal. (Matt. 25:46 MIT)
 
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The contrast Christ made is not "punishment" versus "reward", its the "second (eternal) death" versus "eternal life".

"Cutting off" is idiom for the wicked being cut off from the tree of life forever.

That is the punishment the wicked receive, eternal death; the righteous, eternal life.

These will march off into the punishment whose effect is permanent, and the righteous into life eternal. (Matt. 25:46 MIT)


MIT — The Idiomatic Translation of the New Testament
 
Hell is aeion, a epoch a age, not ,,,forever and everrrr
The protestants do not GET IT, they are reading a enaglish trans of the greek = BOT the real deal, true , authentic , actualk bonifide, ERROR FREE, exact 100% correct maenings. = Theur bibles are trash.
Wosrt of allllllllllll trans is the evil
KJV
btw James was gay early on in life and ended super gay, died in EXTREME anguish.
Do you want your bible named after a notorious gay??
Proof the KJV should be trashed and exposed as a fraud.
Its like a weird cult thing. anyone who has a KJV , I do not even give them the courtsey of a good word to a Brethern,,,, unless I know they are willing to trash the thing after I expose the thing.
They refuse, I shake dust and never return til I know they have trashed that evil thing
 
Hell is aeion, a epoch a age, not ,,,forever and everrrr
The protestants do not GET IT, they are reading a enaglish trans of the greek = BOT the real deal, true , authentic , actualk bonifide, ERROR FREE, exact 100% correct maenings. = Theur bibles are trash.
Wosrt of allllllllllll trans is the evil
KJV
btw James was gay early on in life and ended super gay, died in EXTREME anguish.
Do you want your bible named after a notorious gay??
Proof the KJV should be trashed and exposed as a fraud.
Its like a weird cult thing. anyone who has a KJV , I do not even give them the courtsey of a good word to a Brethern,,,, unless I know they are willing to trash the thing after I expose the thing.
They refuse, I shake dust and never return til I know they have trashed that evil thing
Overall the KJV is a good translation. King James was not one of the translators.

Hell is not eternal, the Lake of Fire is.

Gehinnom, Gehenna is another word for the Lake of fire. As for those who commit eternal sins, like stumble Christ's children, "their worm will not die out."

In the garbage heap symbolically called Gehenna or Lake of fire, their corrupt resurrection bodies (worse than the TV show "the Walking Dead") ----imprison their souls forever as they burn in the trash, the worms of corruption infesting these abominations will never die; indicating their torment is forever:

42 and whoever may cause to stumble one of the little ones believing in me, better is it for him if a millstone is hanged about his neck, and he hath been cast into the sea.
43 'And if thy hand may cause thee to stumble, cut it off; it is better for thee maimed to enter into the life, than having the two hands, to go away to the gehenna, to the fire -- the unquenchable --
44 where their worm is not dying, and the fire is not being quenched.
45 'And if thy foot may cause thee to stumble, cut it off; it is better for thee to enter into the life lame, than having the two feet to be cast to the gehenna, to the fire -- the unquenchable --
46 where their worm is not dying, and the fire is not being quenched.
47 And if thine eye may cause thee to stumble, cast it out; it is better for thee one-eyed to enter into the reign of God, than having two eyes, to be cast to the gehenna of the fire --
48 where their worm is not dying, and the fire is not being quenched; (Mk. 9:42-48 YLT)
 
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Hey All,

Revelation 20:9-10 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

This sounds like pretty forever to me.

Revelation 20:14-15 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

There is no mention of those cast into the lake of fire ever coming out. It is the second death because there is no chance for redemption from the lake of fire.

Why would the lake be eternal if it was only meant as a means of anilation?

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
 
Matthew 25:46
46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."


It is obvious that punishment entails consciousness. One cannot punish a rock, or a piano, or a banana. Only a being with consciousness can be punished. The moment consciousness ceases, though, punishment also ceases. And so, annihilation ends punishment - a punishment Christ has said in the verse above is eternal. Clearly, then, God's eternal punishment of the unrepentant wicked is not the finite, punishment-ending annihilation some want to say it is.
 
Hell is not eternal, the Lake of Fire is.



The Roman Institution started all this antichrist idea that the afterlife is
Forever and ever,,,
and
EVERRR
Thats antichrist,
The greek has no such word as FOREVER.


When someone says there is a trinity that a pastor is real, tiths real, sunday thing real, = the more of these lies I find in them, the more I know the Spirit Of Yeshua is not speaking or they refuse to listen.
You are filtering the bible through english language and via protestant idiology.
I shake the dust as the bible commands me.
These days are short, I have no time to educate the unteachable.

Edited by Moderator .
 
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Matthew 25:46
46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."


It is obvious that punishment entails consciousness. One cannot punish a rock, or a piano, or a banana. Only a being with consciousness can be punished. The moment consciousness ceases, though, punishment also ceases. And so, annihilation ends punishment - a punishment Christ has said in the verse above is eternal. Clearly, then, God's eternal punishment of the unrepentant wicked is not the finite, punishment-ending annihilation some want to say it is.
What do you make of this verse, if some won't suffer annihilation:

They are dead, they will not live; They are deceased, they will not rise. Therefore You have punished and destroyed (08045 שָׁמַד shamad) them, And made all their memory to perish. (Isa. 26:14 NKJ)

08045 שָׁמַד shamad {shaw-mad'}

Meaning: 1) to destroy, exterminate, be destroyed, be exterminated 1a) (Niphal) 1a1) to be annihilated, be exterminated 1a2) to be destroyed, be devastated 1b) (Hiphil) 1b1) to annihilate, exterminate 1b2) to destroy

To me, the prophet speaks about oppressors of Israel, "they are dead" is God's judgment. He has cast them into the "Lake of Fire" which symbolizes the "second death"; they will never rise again.

Therefore, these specific oppressors are annihilated, utterly destroyed including all memory of them.

13 O LORD our God, masters besides You Have had dominion over us; But by You only we make mention of Your name.
14 They are dead, they will not live; They are deceased, they will not rise. Therefore You have punished and destroyed them, And made all their memory to perish. (Isa. 26:13-14 NKJ)


The symbolism of the Lake of Fire is complex. It is the second death, but fire also consumes...destroys what is cast into it. For example, chaff would be totally consumed (Mt. 3:12), but Satan, False prophet and Beast burn forever (Rev. 20:10)


Death and Hades are cast into the lake of fire to symbolize their destruction, that these regions of the dead no longer would return:

13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (Rev. 20:13-14 NKJ)

We can't "personify" Death and Hades as representing all the wicked because in verse 13 it is being used as a place for the dead, alongside the "sea'".
 
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What do you make of this verse, if some won't suffer annihilation:

They are dead, they will not live; They are deceased, they will not rise. Therefore You have punished and destroyed (08045 שָׁמַד shamad) them, And made all their memory to perish. (Isa. 26:14 NKJ)

08045 שָׁמַד shamad {shaw-mad'}

Meaning: 1) to destroy, exterminate, be destroyed, be exterminated 1a) (Niphal) 1a1) to be annihilated, be exterminated 1a2) to be destroyed, be devastated 1b) (Hiphil) 1b1) to annihilate, exterminate 1b2) to destroy

To me, the prophet speaks about oppressors of Israel, "they are dead" is God's judgment. He has cast them into the "Lake of Fire" which symbolizes the "second death"; they will never rise again.

Therefore, these specific oppressors are annihilated, utterly destroyed including all memory of them.

13 O LORD our God, masters besides You Have had dominion over us; But by You only we make mention of Your name.
14 They are dead, they will not live; They are deceased, they will not rise. Therefore You have punished and destroyed them, And made all their memory to perish. (Isa. 26:13-14 NKJ)

EXCELLENTTTTT Post.
WOW
Now you see your post is what makes this forum the best ever in the world.
Real scholars here
YOu just help[ed me ina BIGGG way.
I';ve been pondering this Q for yrs now.
and I know its way out in left field.
But your post seems to help me answer the Q,,
where does the most egregious, the worst of the worst tyrants in history,, nothing at all redeemable. WE can all make up this list long throughout history.
I tell my wife, Its possible these unredeemable souls might go to a

Black Hole
Now what happens to that black hole when ever the physical universe goes away..??
Have no idea.
But its possible these eternally( bible calls this Aeons of the Aeons, = Eternal no end) polluted souls
Yet will the blkack hole be forever. Scientists will tell you the physical universe can not exist forever. Im guess there, dont quote me.
THus Forever on unredeemable souls = never to see any redemption
Now this idea conflicts w several verses in paul
The RECONCILIATION Of The All Things
and
God locks all in sin so He may have mercy on all = Universal Redemption theory.
How can Putler be redeemed??
My birth father ever be redeemed
as his wish is that if he could, to kill God, take God';s place and live forever w/o God in his world. He really lovedddddd this world.
How can he be given redemption???
Other than that he acted as a emessiary for God in order to punish us for our(my Family) rebellious sinful ways..
See what I mean., God used him as tool
Did God give him zillions of opportunitiews to change, Yes, Disregarded them all.
Now can he find redemption IF you adhere to Paul's Universal Redemption theory
Here let me find that verse, where Yeshua completes His High Priest Goes back into the father and renders the Kingdom to God
so that
God may be All In All.

https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/15-28.htm
 
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