EvolvingChristian
Member
I haven't seen any verses that explicitly state such. Perhaps I missed them. Do you know of any?
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Bible Study How is it known that one cannot be saved AFTER death?
- Thread starter EvolvingChristian
- Start date
Heb. 9:27 came to mind..."And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"
Men can only "turn from" sin while still alive.
EvolvingChristian
Member
Ok. So man is "judged" after death. What happens if, after death, a person says "I'm so sorry. Please forgive me!" Does Jesus say "Too bad. You're too late. You're going to HELL!"?
Tessa
Member
Ecclesiastes 9:5 tells us 't dead know nothing"
EvolvingChristian
Member
So Jesus won't forgive after death and sends souls to Hell. That seems contrary to Jesus.
I believe it's entirely possible that Jesus extends mercy and forgiveness even after death which, if true, would seemingly violate a major tenet of many Christians who believe it's either all or nothing at death. That seems extreme to me.
You're putting Jesus into a box designed by you. I'll put it another way. You are placing yourself above God by deciding what is right, even for Him, rather than looking to God for the answers. You're trying to plan your life so you can continue being your own god, living in sin, until the very end and then expect Him to clear you at the last second. Reminds me of Jesus' story about Lazarus.
“There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’ Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ”
Luke 16:19-31 NKJV
We are called by God to look to Him and not lean on our own understanding.
Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;
Proverbs 3:5 NKJV
How many chances do you think we deserve?
“When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’ Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’ Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Matthew 25:31-46 NKJV
stovebolts
Member
Jesus doesn't send people to hell.
Here is something that I think a lot of people miss. They think that both heaven and hell are destinations when in fact they are also states. One can be in a state of heavenly bliss or one can be in a state of hell.
Consider Romans 2:5-11 NIV
But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.
For God does not show favoritism
But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.
There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil:
God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”
stovebolts
Member
Matthew 21:28-32 NIV
The Parable of the Two Sons
28 “What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work today in the vineyard.’29 “‘I will not,’ he answered, but later he changed his mind and went.
30 “Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, ‘I will, sir,’ but he did not go.
31 “Which of the two did what his father wanted?”
“The first,” they answered.
Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. 32 For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him."
EvolvingChristian
Member
So you're CERTAIN that, people who die as unbelievers or who are unrepentant, are going to Hell. There is no in-between. Ok.
stovebolts
Member
I didn’t say that
EvolvingChristian
Member
Is it possible to be forgiven and saved after death?
jasonc
Member
no,I'm of Jewish lineage ,I don't buy,the kiddish .if he'll is eternal seperation then also heaven us externality with God ,the word for age ,forever is aeon..
EvolvingChristian
Member
I have no idea what you're trying to communicate.
jasonc
Member
you are implying purgatory
EvolvingChristian
Member
The topic of the thread is how do Christians know that Jesus is unwilling to forgive and save a soul after death. They make that claim, even though there doesn't seem to be any scripture that explicitly makes that statement.
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
2 Peter 3:9 God sends no one to hell as He would that none should perish, but repent and turn back to Him. We can only do this while we are still alive. God sends no one to hell as they have condemned themselves that have no faith in God or His Son Christ Jesus.
This body/flesh dies and deteriorates as it turns back to dust while in the ground. The breath/spirit goes back to God who gave it, Genesis 2:7; Ecc 12:7. The soul which makes up the conscious part of ones being is that of thought, action and emotion. The spiritual nature of man regarded as immortal and separable from the body/flesh at death and susceptible to happiness or misery in a future state.
EvolvingChristian
Member
I'm not convinced.
stovebolts
Member
With God, anything is possible.
What I hear the Biblical writers saying is this. Do good, stay away from evil. One day we will all go before God for an accounting of every word we’ve said, every thought we’ve thought and every action we’ve taken or failed to take.
For those who purposefully do evil deeds, they bring wrath upon themselves.
This is what Jesus says to Nicodemus. What do you make of these words Jesus speaks?
As a side note, God is love, and the idea that God sends folk to hell because he is unjust comes from people who don’t know our God.
John 3:16-21 NIV
For God so loved(V) the world that he gave(W) his one and only Son,(X) that whoever believes(Y) in him shall not perish but have eternal life.(Z) 17 For God did not send his Son into the world(AA) to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.(AB) 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned,(AC) but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.(AD) 19 This is the verdict: Light(AE) has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.(AF) 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.(AG) 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
EvolvingChristian
Member
I'll take it a step further and gander that Jesus is unwilling to lose anyone.