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    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

How many remember this passage from Sunday school?

Stormcrow

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{16} "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves. {17} "But beware of men, for they will hand you over to the courts and scourge you in their synagogues; {18} and you will even be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. {19} "But when they hand you over, do not worry about how or what you are to say; for it will be given you in that hour what you are to say. {20} "For it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you. {21} "Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. {22} "You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved. {23} "But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes. Matthew 10:16-23 (NASB)

See verse 21-22? It's the same thing He told His disciples here:

{9}"Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. {10} "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. Matthew 24:9-10 (NASB)

Kinda' puts these passages in perspective:

{27}"For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. {28} "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:27-28 (NASB)

{64} Jesus *said to him [Caiaphas], "You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN." {65} Then the high priest tore his robes and said, "He has blasphemed! What further need do we have of witnesses? Behold, you have now heard the blasphemy; {66} what do you think?" They answered, "He deserves death!" Matthew 26:64-66 (NASB)

Pop quiz: based on these passages, when was the Son of Man coming in His kingdom again? :biggrin
 

Sinthesis

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{16} "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves. {17} "But beware of men, for they will hand you over to the courts and scourge you in their synagogues; {18} and you will even be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. {19} "But when they hand you over, do not worry about how or what you are to say; for it will be given you in that hour what you are to say. {20} "For it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you. {21} "Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. {22} "You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved. {23} "But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes. Matthew 10:16-23 (NASB)

See verse 21-22? It's the same thing He told His disciples here:

{9}"Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. {10} "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. Matthew 24:9-10 (NASB)

Kinda' puts these passages in perspective:

{27}"For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. {28} "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:27-28 (NASB)

{64} Jesus *said to him [Caiaphas], "You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN." {65} Then the high priest tore his robes and said, "He has blasphemed! What further need do we have of witnesses? Behold, you have now heard the blasphemy; {66} what do you think?" They answered, "He deserves death!" Matthew 26:64-66 (NASB)

Pop quiz: based on these passages, when was the Son of Man coming in His kingdom again? :biggrin

Soonish?
 

jasoncran

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few churches these days actually have deep bible studies. i get the looks for not believing the pre-trib rapture alot when i do mention it.

so. you dont want me to really see if that is in the bible? no they say. then what is it.
oh the old read it with the spirit and not rely on man. when a man years ago first came up with the idea. Paul was man greatly used by God and he didnt rebuke the bereans for there reasearch in fact he commended them!
 

Acebopata

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I hold the Pre trib as a valid theory, and the Rapture and Kingdom of Christ as different events, yet at the same time, I'm respectful of those who are firm in the pre-trib and the post-trib theories of the Rapture.

My main concern is keeping my life as pure as possible, so that it inspires people to better themselves and so that my life is pleasing to the Lord.

At the same time, these passages prove one consecutive thing, that no matter when the Rapture occurs, Christians will be persecuted. My local church sponsors a missionary in Kenya, (I think), and the U.S. has sent two warnings to the Americans in that nation of anti-American threats in that nation.

Additionally, many of the Christians in nations like Iran, China, and many other nations are going through a lot of persecution. And I fully understand it's coming to America. We may soon find Mexico a much better place to live, dispute all the drug cartels.
 

jasoncran

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I hold the Pre trib as a valid theory, and the Rapture and Kingdom of Christ as different events, yet at the same time, I'm respectful of those who are firm in the pre-trib and the post-trib theories of the Rapture.

My main concern is keeping my life as pure as possible, so that it inspires people to better themselves and so that my life is pleasing to the Lord.

At the same time, these passages prove one consecutive thing, that no matter when the Rapture occurs, Christians will be persecuted. My local church sponsors a missionary in Kenya, (I think), and the U.S. has sent two warnings to the Americans in that nation of anti-American threats in that nation.

Additionally, many of the Christians in nations like Iran, China, and many other nations are going through a lot of persecution. And I fully understand it's coming to America. We may soon find Mexico a much better place to live, dispute all the drug cartels.
yes and in those countries the church grows, . this isnt new. in fact its promised to the church as a whole!
 

Stormcrow

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There was actually a reason I posted those particular passages in the OP. Here's the rest of the story.

Jesus, having told them what would happen to them not once but twice, now tells the chief priests, scribes and pharisees the same thing!

{29} "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, {30} and say, 'If we had been living in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' {31} "So you testify against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets.

{32}
"Fill up, then, the measure of the guilt of your fathers. {33}"You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?

{34}
"Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, {35} so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. {36} "Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. Matthew 23:29-36 (NASB)

And again, here is where the connection to Revelation is made:

{9} When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; {10} and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" Revelation 6:9-10 (NASB)

See that word "earth" in Matthew 23 and Revelation 6? It is also translated "land" from the Greek, and means the land of Israel and Judah specifically.

But more importantly, these souls under the altar are the souls of Christ's disciples: the ones He warned would be hated and killed for His name! They heard Him on the temple grounds promise retribution upon those who would kill them, and in Revelation 6 we see them under the altar asking the Lord when He would fulfill His promise to avenge them.

They are seen again in Revelation 7 praising God and the Lamb for their salvation.

Finally, this is not the first time God brought retribution upon the priesthood and people of Israel and Judah for mistreating the messengers God sent to them:

{15} The LORD, the God of their fathers, sent word to them again and again by His messengers, because He had compassion on His people and on His dwelling place; {16} but they continually mocked the messengers of God, despised His words and scoffed at His prophets, until the wrath of the LORD arose against His people, until there was no remedy.

{17}
Therefore He brought up against them the king of the Chaldeans who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary, and had no compassion on young man or virgin, old man or infirm; He gave them all into his hand. {18} All the articles of the house of God, great and small, and the treasures of the house of the LORD, and the treasures of the king and of his officers, he brought them all to Babylon. {19} Then they burned the house of God and broke down the wall of Jerusalem, and burned all its fortified buildings with fire and destroyed all its valuable articles. 2 Chronicles 36:15-19 (NASB)

The book of Revelation chronicles - in prophetic terms - the imminent judgment of Jerusalem, the priesthood, and the people, for "filling up" (completing) the guilt of their fathers.

It is not about us. It was always about them.
 
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