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How much of the Olivet Discourse and Revelation do partial preterists view as fulfilled?

precepts

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More heresies as there is nothing mentioned about any of this in the Olivet Discourse. There were no others, but only the disciples who were with Jesus as He answered their three questions, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Jesus proceeds to tell them those things which must come first before His return, Matthew 24:4-28 and in Matthew 24:29-31 shows them what to look for in His second coming.

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Okay, my bad. I was speaking from memory. Christ didn't mention some standing there in Mat. 24:4-28 tasting death after witnessing Him coming on the clouds into His kingdom in the Olivet Discourse, but that does not take away from the fact that all these events occur at the 2nd Coming. Mat. 24:4-28 are the signs of His 2nd coming, but Mat. 16:28, Mar. 9:1, and Luk. 27:9 is the fulfillment of His Coming, when those who were standing there in Mat. 16:28, Mar. 9:1, and Luk. 27:9 would taste death after witnessing Christ coming into His kingdom. It's a parable/puzzle, a 1,000 yrs between the signs of His Coming and His Coming at the 2nd Resurrection's Great White Throne judgement, when those who were standing there in Mat. 16:28, Mar. 9:1, and Luk. 27:9 tasted death in the lake of fire.


Rev 19:11-21 is that of Christ second coming that was mentioned in Matthew 24:29-31 as at that time on the last day He will destroy the beast and the false prophet, casting them alive into the lake of fire, and the lake of fire is not in heaven for no evil can exist in the Spiritual realm of God. At His second coming He will also send His angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather all that are His own that are in the grave, John 5:28, 29; John 6:40, Matthew 24:29-31, and those alive at His coming as they will evermore be with the Lord. Then God ushers down the new heaven and the New Jerusalem after He cast all those who rejected truth, casting them into the lake of fire.
Psa. 11:14 - The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.

Heb. 9:24 - For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

Rev. 11:19 - And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Rev. 17:14 - And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

Rev. 15:5 - And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:

Rev. 4:2 - And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
Either you believe what Jesus has already taught and have eternal life with Him, or you reject His truths and find yourself in the lake of fire with all those false teachers that are teaching you these heresies.

The New Yahrushalem comes down from the 3rd heaven to replace the old heavenly Yahrushalem, where these activities took place!


John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Which only happens at the 2nd Resurrection, the Great White Throne judgement, when the rest of the dead were raised in heaven. The righteous were raised in their glorified bodies during the 1st Resurrection in heaven. There will be no throne judgement in the 3rd, the Wheat and Tares resurrection/harvest of this world. Remember Lazarus and the rich man. The rich man was burning in the lake of fire after the 2nd resurrection, wanting God to send Lazarus back to earth to warn his brothers of the lake of fire.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
 

precepts

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I can't even say you are twisting scripture as none of what you have said doesn't even come from the written word. If it did you would be giving us the scriptures you are teaching from. We do ask our members to give scripture in support of what they speak so we can discuss them together.
:kiss For example? Since I posted so many verses?
 

for_his_glory

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:kiss For example? Since I posted so many verses?

Your post #21 is the first post that you have given any scripture, but yet none of them support what you have been saying.

We do not enter the Millennial Kingdom here on earth in our natural bodies, but in new glorified bodies, 1 Corinthians 15:51-54. When Christ returns in the air on the last day we are then caught up to meet Him in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord as He has made us unto our God kings and priests and we shall reign on the earth as we rule with Him over the nations as His enemies have become His footstool in the end of days, John 5:28, 29; 6:40; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18; Rev 5:10; Psalms 110:1-4; Hebrews 10:12, 13.

Matthew 24:29-31; Rev 19:11-21 Jesus descends down from heaven with His army of the host (angels) of heaven as while remaining in the air He sends His angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather His own to Him. He will destroy the beast and false prophet casting them alive into the lake of fire, Rev 19:15, 16. The remnant in Rev 19:21 are the world leaders of every nation on the earth that have followed after the beast that rules their government. The remnant will be slain by the very words Jesus speaks of their damnation as the fowls will be filled with their flesh and at that time Satan will be chained and bound so he can not interfere with the ungodly people that are still alive on earth that become the footstool of Christ. Then the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ and He shall reign for ever and the saints will begin to rule over the nations here on earth, Rev 11:15; 5:10; 20:1-3; Matthew 5:5.

Rev 20:7-10 Those that have rejected Christ that still remain on earth after the beast, false prophet and all the ruling leaders from every nation that followed after the beast are destroyed are those who are the numbering as the sand of the sea. These are the enemy of God that Satan uses to battle against the saints during the battle of Armageddon that are camped upon the breadth of the earth after Satan is released for a season, Psalms 2:7-10; 110; Ezekiel 36; 37; Rev 20:7-9. The saints are camped not only in Jerusalem the beloved city of God, but also throughout the breadth of the earth. It's only the 144,000 generational Jews that believe in Christ that have returned to Jerusalem. After the 1000 years are fulfilled Satan is set loosed for a season and goes out to deceive the nations as he gathers the enemies of Christ to battle against the saints as the numbering of unbelievers is like the sand of the sea. As the enemy surrounds the camp of the saints God sends fire down from heaven and destroys the enemy and Satan is cast into the lake of fire. Zechariah 14:1, 2; Luke 21:20 and Rev 16:16 mentions the battle of Armageddon when Christ and His army of angels return as Christ plants His feet on the mount of Olives for the final battle as Gog and Magog found in Ezekiel Chapter 38 is the battle of Rev 20:7-9.

(IMO 1000 years is a figurative number, not a literal number. It is figurative like the numbering in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1 Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2 Peter 3:8.)

John 5:28, 29; Rev 20:11-15, now comes the Great White throne judgment as the books are opened with one of them being the Lamb's book of life where all the saints of God have their names written as they have part of the first resurrection of eternal life on such the second death hath no power, Rev 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:54-57. The other book is opened being the book of damnation where the enemies of God that were killed while trying to destroy the camp of the saints are now joined with those enemies of Christ that were also raised from their graves and are reserved, 2 Peter 2:9, as now since they were condemned and judged will be cast into the lake of fire. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. While the saints are with Jesus the earth will be renewed and the New Jerusalem is ushered down from heaven, Rev 21.

Matthew 24:22 these days are shortened for a time that only God holds back or extends to allow His purpose for the last one to repent and turn back to Him before Christ returns, Rev 19, as God alone knows their name. Only God can shorten days like He did with Hezekiah as He caused the sundial to go backwards ten degrees, Isaiah 38:8, which was possibly five hours and again in Joshua 10:12-14 God extended the daylight for Joshua to defeat the Amorites.

Christ returns on the last day at the seventh trumpet and on that day His Bride being the collective body of believers through faith in Christ and sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption will be caught up to Him. Both asleep in their grave and those who are alive at His coming will then be kept safe on that day while Christ fights the final battle casting the beast and false prophet into the lake of fire and slaying all those nations (people) who come out to fight against Him.
(John 5:25-30; 6:40; Ephesians 1:3-14;1 Corinthians 15:51-57; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; Rev 19; Zechariah 14:1-6; Luke 21:20-22)
 

Rollo Tamasi

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Explain what? I told you they were fulfilled in heaven.

The 2nd coming is a parable that was fulfilled in heaven.

The 1st and 2nd resurrections were the fulfillment of the 2nd coming, when "those who were standing there" on the mount of olives with Christ, "tasted death," as prophesied on the mount, when they "saw" Him coming on the clouds into His kingdom, a 1,000 yrs after the 1st resurrection in heaven, in the lake of fire.

It is a parable.
Was this an outer limits episode?
 
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precepts

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Your post #21 is the first post that you have given any scripture, but yet none of them support what you have been saying.

We do not enter the Millennial Kingdom here on earth in our natural bodies, but in new glorified bodies, 1 Corinthians 15:51-54. When Christ returns in the air on the last day we are then caught up to meet Him in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord as He has made us unto our God kings and priests and we shall reign on the earth as we rule with Him over the nations as His enemies have become His footstool in the end of days, John 5:28, 29; 6:40; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18; Rev 5:10; Psalms 110:1-4; Hebrews 10:12, 13.

Matthew 24:29-31; Rev 19:11-21 Jesus descends down from heaven with His army of the host (angels) of heaven as while remaining in the air He sends His angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather His own to Him. He will destroy the beast and false prophet casting them alive into the lake of fire, Rev 19:15, 16. The remnant in Rev 19:21 are the world leaders of every nation on the earth that have followed after the beast that rules their government. The remnant will be slain by the very words Jesus speaks of their damnation as the fowls will be filled with their flesh and at that time Satan will be chained and bound so he can not interfere with the ungodly people that are still alive on earth that become the footstool of Christ. Then the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ and He shall reign for ever and the saints will begin to rule over the nations here on earth, Rev 11:15; 5:10; 20:1-3; Matthew 5:5.

Rev 20:7-10 Those that have rejected Christ that still remain on earth after the beast, false prophet and all the ruling leaders from every nation that followed after the beast are destroyed are those who are the numbering as the sand of the sea. These are the enemy of God that Satan uses to battle against the saints during the battle of Armageddon that are camped upon the breadth of the earth after Satan is released for a season, Psalms 2:7-10; 110; Ezekiel 36; 37; Rev 20:7-9. The saints are camped not only in Jerusalem the beloved city of God, but also throughout the breadth of the earth. It's only the 144,000 generational Jews that believe in Christ that have returned to Jerusalem. After the 1000 years are fulfilled Satan is set loosed for a season and goes out to deceive the nations as he gathers the enemies of Christ to battle against the saints as the numbering of unbelievers is like the sand of the sea. As the enemy surrounds the camp of the saints God sends fire down from heaven and destroys the enemy and Satan is cast into the lake of fire. Zechariah 14:1, 2; Luke 21:20 and Rev 16:16 mentions the battle of Armageddon when Christ and His army of angels return as Christ plants His feet on the mount of Olives for the final battle as Gog and Magog found in Ezekiel Chapter 38 is the battle of Rev 20:7-9.

(IMO 1000 years is a figurative number, not a literal number. It is figurative like the numbering in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1 Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2 Peter 3:8.)

John 5:28, 29; Rev 20:11-15, now comes the Great White throne judgment as the books are opened with one of them being the Lamb's book of life where all the saints of God have their names written as they have part of the first resurrection of eternal life on such the second death hath no power, Rev 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:54-57. The other book is opened being the book of damnation where the enemies of God that were killed while trying to destroy the camp of the saints are now joined with those enemies of Christ that were also raised from their graves and are reserved, 2 Peter 2:9, as now since they were condemned and judged will be cast into the lake of fire. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. While the saints are with Jesus the earth will be renewed and the New Jerusalem is ushered down from heaven, Rev 21.

Matthew 24:22 these days are shortened for a time that only God holds back or extends to allow His purpose for the last one to repent and turn back to Him before Christ returns, Rev 19, as God alone knows their name. Only God can shorten days like He did with Hezekiah as He caused the sundial to go backwards ten degrees, Isaiah 38:8, which was possibly five hours and again in Joshua 10:12-14 God extended the daylight for Joshua to defeat the Amorites.

Christ returns on the last day at the seventh trumpet and on that day His Bride being the collective body of believers through faith in Christ and sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption will be caught up to Him. Both asleep in their grave and those who are alive at His coming will then be kept safe on that day while Christ fights the final battle casting the beast and false prophet into the lake of fire and slaying all those nations (people) who come out to fight against Him.
(John 5:25-30; 6:40; Ephesians 1:3-14;1 Corinthians 15:51-57; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; Rev 19; Zechariah 14:1-6; Luke 21:20-22)
Here are the points your trying to dodge:
(1) Christ is brought before God's throne in heaven in Rev. 5:6.
(2) There was a temple in heaven (Rev. 11:19, 14:17, 15:5, & 16:17).
(3) The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men (Psa. 11:4 )
(4) There's no throne judgement in the wheat and tares 3rd resurrection/harvest of the earth because we are carried into the new Yahrushalem or into the lake of fire. No books will be opened and the dead judged.
(5) The parable of Lazarus and the rich man proves there are 3 resurrections. The rich man is burning in the lake of fire when he ask God to send back Lazarus to the earth to warn his brethren (Luke 16:22-31).
------------------------------------------------------------------------
God speaks in parables. The earth that we're going to live on is the heavenly earth, where the new heavenly Yahrushalem lies.

Heb. 12:23 - But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
 
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JLB

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Here are the points your trying to dodge:
(1) Christ is brought before God's throne in heaven in Rev. 5:6.
(2) There was a temple in heaven (Rev. 11:19, 14:17, 15:5, & 16:17).
(3) The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men (Psa. 11:4 )
(4) There's no throne judgement in the wheat and tares 3rd resurrection/harvest of the earth because we are carried into the new Yahrushalem or into the lake of fire. No books will be opened and the dead judged.
(5) The parable of Lazarus and the rich man proves there are 3 resurrections. The rich man is burning in the lake of fire when he ask God to send back Lazarus to the earth to warn his brethren (Luke 16:22-31).
------------------------------------------------------------------------
God speaks in parables. The earth that we're going to live on is the heavenly earth, where the new heavenly Yahrushalem lies.

Heb. 12:23 - But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Saying the resurrection of the dead in Christ is already past is just plain heresy.


You have strayed from the truth.


And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 2 Timothy 2:17-18


  • who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past;


JLB
 

JLB

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Here are the points your trying to dodge:
(1) Christ is brought before God's throne in heaven in Rev. 5:6.
(2) There was a temple in heaven (Rev. 11:19, 14:17, 15:5, & 16:17).
(3) The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men (Psa. 11:4 )
(4) There's no throne judgement in the wheat and tares 3rd resurrection/harvest of the earth because we are carried into the new Yahrushalem or into the lake of fire. No books will be opened and the dead judged.
(5) The parable of Lazarus and the rich man proves there are 3 resurrections. The rich man is burning in the lake of fire when he ask God to send back Lazarus to the earth to warn his brethren (Luke 16:22-31).
------------------------------------------------------------------------
God speaks in parables. The earth that we're going to live on is the heavenly earth, where the new heavenly Yahrushalem lies.

Heb. 12:23 - But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Nothing stated here has anything to do with the resurrection of the dead in Christ being in the past.


When we receive our resurrection bodies, they will not die.


Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:34-36


But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore


If people are still marrying and dying the resurrection hasn’t taken place yet.





JLB
 

JLB

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You and Christianity don't know the truth.




ToS said:
2.2: No active promotion of other Faiths is allowed:

You will not post any messages; links, images or photos that promote a religion or belief other than Biblical and historical Christianity (atheism is considered a "belief" for the purposes of this rule). Discussing these doctrines are fine, as long as the beliefs are not actively promoted or held in balance with orthodox Christianity. This includes Full Preterism, Universal Reconciliation, Universal Salvation, Serpent seed, Dual Seed or Two-Seedline doctrine which are only allowed in the 1 on 1 Debate Forum. This is a Christian Forum as the name suggests.
 

precepts

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Saying the resurrection of the dead in Christ is already past is just plain heresy.


You have strayed from the truth.


And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 2 Timothy 2:17-18


  • who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past;


JLB
Have a good day, friend. It's obvious you're running from the truth and can't address my points.
 

precepts

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ToS said:
2.2: No active promotion of other Faiths is allowed:

You will not post any messages; links, images or photos that promote a religion or belief other than Biblical and historical Christianity (atheism is considered a "belief" for the purposes of this rule). Discussing these doctrines are fine, as long as the beliefs are not actively promoted or held in balance with orthodox Christianity. This includes Full Preterism, Universal Reconciliation, Universal Salvation, Serpent seed, Dual Seed or Two-Seedline doctrine which are only allowed in the 1 on 1 Debate Forum. This is a Christian Forum as the name suggests.
Now you're suggesting that I'm not a Christian? Trees are known by their fruits. Provide one instance that I acted contrary to being a Christian. If you were serious about the truth, you would have addressed my points, but you can't so you're make rash judgements to avoid answering. This is a forum to discuss Preterism and now it's a heresy because I can prove the fact?.
 
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JLB

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Now you're suggesting that I'm not a Christian? Trees are known by their fruits. Provide one instance that I acted contrary to being a Christian. If you were serious about the truth, you would have addressed my points, but you can't so you're make rash judgements to avoid answering. This is a forum to discuss Preterism and now it's a heresy because I can prove the fact?.


This is part of our terms of service that you agreed to abide by.


ToS said:
2.2: No active promotion of other Faiths is allowed:

You will not post any messages; links, images or photos that promote a religion or belief other than Biblical and historical Christianity (atheism is considered a "belief" for the purposes of this rule). Discussing these doctrines are fine, as long as the beliefs are not actively promoted or held in balance with orthodox Christianity. This includes Full Preterism, Universal Reconciliation, Universal Salvation, Serpent seed, Dual Seed or Two-Seedline doctrine which are only allowed in the 1 on 1 Debate Forum. This is a Christian Forum as the name suggests.


Please abide by our TOS.

Please go back and read it carefully. It’s your responsibility to educate yourself with our policies here.


Thank you, JLB
 

precepts

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This is part of our terms of service that you agreed to abide by.


ToS said:
2.2: No active promotion of other Faiths is allowed:

You will not post any messages; links, images or photos that promote a religion or belief other than Biblical and historical Christianity (atheism is considered a "belief" for the purposes of this rule). Discussing these doctrines are fine, as long as the beliefs are not actively promoted or held in balance with orthodox Christianity. This includes Full Preterism, Universal Reconciliation, Universal Salvation, Serpent seed, Dual Seed or Two-Seedline doctrine which are only allowed in the 1 on 1 Debate Forum. This is a Christian Forum as the name suggests.


Please abide by our TOS.

Please go back and read it carefully. It’s your responsibility to educate yourself with our policies here.


Thank you, JLB
So how am I violating the rules by discussing Preterism and your rules say I can? This is a Preterism forum, for pete's sake.
 

Quantrill

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precepts

Concerning the resurrections, there are several. But all resurrections are located in the 1st and 2nd resurrections.

Consider that the terms 1st and 2nd or last resurrection, are ordinal numbers. Not cardinal numbers.

All resurrections leading to eternal life are the 1st resurrection. All resurrections leading to death, are the 2nd or last resurrection.

Quantrill
 

JLB

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So how am I violating the rules by discussing Preterism and your rules say I can? This is a Preterism forum, for pete's sake.

Do you see a difference between full preterism and partial preterism?
 

JLB

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Have a good day, friend. It's obvious you're running from the truth and can't address my points.

I have plainly refuted your theory with scripture.

You have no point.

As long as people still die, then the resurrection is in the future.

JLB
 

precepts

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precepts

Concerning the resurrections, there are several. But all resurrections are located in the 1st and 2nd resurrections.

Consider that the terms 1st and 2nd or last resurrection, are ordinal numbers. Not cardinal numbers.

All resurrections leading to eternal life are the 1st resurrection. All resurrections leading to death, are the 2nd or last resurrection.

Quantrill
Try addressing the points I made that proves there are 3 resurrections.
 

precepts

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Do you see a difference between full preterism and partial preterism?
Full Preterism as defined by Christianity is a heresy. It's the same kind of heresy as the heresy you pointed out earlier. Both claim Christ returned to earth in the past. But my interpretation is that He doesn't return until the end of the world (the Wheat and the Tares parable) because the 1st and 2nd resurrections happened in heaven. Most of the events in the book of Revelation happened in heaven and not on this earth. That is everybody else's misinterpretation.
 
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JLB

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Full Preterism as defined by Christianity is a heresy. It's the same kind of heresy as the heresy you pointed out earlier. Both claim Christ returned to earth in the past. But my interpretation is that He doesn't return until the end of the world (the Wheat and the Tares parable) because the 1st and 2nd resurrections happened in heaven. Most of the events in the book of Revelation happened in heaven and not on this earth. That is everybody else's misinterpretation.

The resurrection of the dead in Christ occurs at His coming which takes place at the end of the age on the last Day.


This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” John 6:39-40


What last day in heaven did your resurrection take place?



JLB
 
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