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How much of the Olivet Discourse and Revelation do partial preterists view as fulfilled?

Quantrill

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I never said a Gentile becomes a Jew, but that the Gentile is grafted into the branch with Israel. As you said, your belief is the Dispensation view that the Church and Israel are not the same body of believers. This is only a view without the support of scripture. Romans 2:28, 29 is about the Jews in their disobedience to the law.

Israel lost her right to be called Gods chosen people, (God did save a faithful remnant), as they fell into idolatry worshiping other gods as they allowed themselves to fall from Gods grace as they followed the lust of their own hearts as they practiced Judaism, 1 Kings 9:1-9. God’s judgment against them led them to be captured, 605 – 537 B.C., by Nebuchadnezzar and taken into Babylon for seventy years while Nebuchadnezzar’s army killed many Jews in Judah and Jerusalem destroying the whole city of Jerusalem including the first Temple that was built through King Solomon’s reign in Jerusalem.

The second Temple was built under Ezra’s leadership and Israel continued practicing Judaism and their Temple was desecrated as part of an effort to impose Greek-oriented culture and customs on the entire population. Roman rule refurbished the temple as Herod, Romans vassal king, rules the land of Israel. In 70 A.D. the Temple is once again destroyed. The Temple Mount was taken over in 691 A.D. as the Arab nation built the Dome of the Rock and there has not been any other Temple built since that time on the original Temple Mount.

God gave Israel 490 years to repent. They were set free from Babylon when the Medes and Persian conquered Babylon (Chaldean) around 538 B.C. They were allowed back in the land and to rebuild the city of Jerusalem, however, they still did not repent for their sin of idol worshiping and they continued to receive punishment from God as the kingdom was taken away and eventually taken over by the Roman Empire. Malachi Chapter 1-4.

The 490 years were up and many of the Jews not only did not repent but they killed the very Messiah they had been waiting for as well as in 24 A.D. they made an opened display of rejecting the Gospel message as they stoned Stephen being the final messenger that was sent to give them their last chance to repent. The Jews were now rejected as God’s chosen people and were no different from the Gentiles as from that time forth each individual, Jew and Gentile has to make their own decision to accept or reject Jesus as Lord and Savior, John 3:3-7; Romans 10:9, 10.

The disciples were called first to preach to the Jews, Matthew 10:6, and Paul was called to preach to the Gentiles, Acts 22:21. God has saved a remnant out of the twelve tribes of Israel even up to a thousand generations that have always been faithful to Him, Exodus 20:1-6; Psalms 105:7, 8, but those who have yet to accept Jesus as Messiah God will continue to cut them off.

OK. Then we agree. When a Gentile becomes a Christian, he is part of the Church, not Israel.

What do you base this, 'Israel lost her right' on? Explain (Jer. 31:35-36). You may think Israel lost her right. God never said so.

Quantrill
 

Quantrill

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Of course the Church doesn’t replace Israel.

The Church which began with Abraham is the “Israel of God”.


JLB

No, the Church didn't begin until (Acts 2). Without the coming of the Holy Spirit, there is no Body of Christ.

Quantrill
 

JLB

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No, the Church didn't begin until (Acts 2). Without the coming of the Holy Spirit, there is no Body of Christ.

Quantrill

So are you saying that if a person is not baptized with the Holy Spirit as on the day of Pentecost, they are not part of the Church?



This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
Acts 7:38



The Covenant between Abraham and the Lord was the foundation of the Church, the Ecclesia, which is why we are called Abraham’s children and are said to be grafted into the natural olive tree.


For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. Romans 11:16-18


Abraham was a prophet and had the Spirit of Christ in him and walked with the Lord in obedience. The same Lord we are in covenant with today.





JLB
 

Quantrill

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So are you saying that if a person is not baptized with the Holy Spirit as on the day of Pentecost, they are not part of the Church?



This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
Acts 7:38



The Covenant between Abraham and the Lord was the foundation of the Church, the Ecclesia, which is why we are called Abraham’s children and are said to be grafted into the natural olive tree.


For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. Romans 11:16-18


Abraham was a prophet and had the Spirit of Christ in him and walked with the Lord in obedience. The same Lord we are in covenant with today.





JLB

The 'church in the wilderness' is not the Church, the Body of Jesus Christ. The believers before Israel are not Israel. The Church of Christ is not Israel.

The Church of Christ began at Pentecost. When one is born-again today, the Holy Spirit gives life and indwells that one, making him part of the Body of Christ.

The Church is a unique body of believers. Just as Israel is also. Yes, both the Church and Israel have their source and benefit from the Abrahamic Covenant.

Quantrill
 

JLB

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The 'church in the wilderness' is not the Church, the Body of Jesus Christ. The believers before Israel are not Israel. The Church of Christ is not Israel.

The Church of Christ began at Pentecost. When one is born-again today, the Holy Spirit gives life and indwells that one, making him part of the Body of Christ.

The Church is a unique body of believers. Just as Israel is also. Yes, both the Church and Israel have their source and benefit from the Abrahamic Covenant.

Quantrill

So your saying no one was saved under the ministry of Jesus Christ?

Your saying only people who are baptized with the Holy Spirit as on the day of Pentecost are part of the Church?


JLB
 

Quantrill

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So your saying no one was saved under the ministry of Jesus Christ?

Your saying only people who are baptized with the Holy Spirit as on the day of Pentecost are part of the Church?


JLB

Where did I say that?

Quantrill
 

JLB

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Where did I say that?

Quantrill

That s what you are implying when you say ...

“The Church of Christ began at Pentecost. When one is born-again today, the Holy Spirit gives life and indwells that one, making him part of the Body of Christ.”


People were baptized with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, not born again.


One is born again when they believe the Gospel.


Many people believed the Gospel before Pentecost.



JLB
 

Quantrill

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That s what you are implying when you say ...

“The Church of Christ began at Pentecost. When one is born-again today, the Holy Spirit gives life and indwells that one, making him part of the Body of Christ.”


People were baptized with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, not born again.


One is born again when they believe the Gospel.


Many people believed the Gospel before Pentecost.



JLB

That quote of mine doesn't imply or say that at all. If you quote all I said in post (124) you would see that I do not imply that.

There were believers before Pentecost. But they were not part of the Church. The Church did not begin until Pentecost.

Those who were believers during the time of Christ, who were mostly Israelites, were part of Israel. But once the rejection took place and the Crucifixion, Resurrection and Ascension, and the Holy Spirit came down and indwelt the believing, the Church was born.

The believing at that time then were made part of a new Body, the Church. They had something they didn't have before, the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ. (Rom. 8:9) And now the believing, both Jew and Gentile, become part of the Church.

Being born again is the work of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. It is the baptism of the Spirit. No one before could be 'born again' as Christ's resurrection by the Holy Spirit was necessary. (1 Peter 1:3) (Eph. 2;15)


Quantrill
 

Quantrill

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To be clear as to what I said in post #(130) and (124), I want to say this.

During Christ's earthly ministry, there was no Church of Jesus Christ. Those who were saved at that time were believers under the Old Covenant. Mostly Israelites.

This would be a unique generation in that they lived for a time under the Old Covenant, and then, once Christ resurrection and Pentecost came, they were born again and lived under the New Covenant.

No other generation will ever exist that experienced that. And so you have things occurring with that transitional generation that will not occur again.

Now that the Holy Spirit has come, whenever one believes, he is born again and the Spirit of God/Christ indwells him and he is part of the Church, the Body of Christ.

That unique generation of Jews who were believers under the Old Covenant and then under the New Covenant, ceased to be the nation of Israel. They were the believing Jews, the true Israel of God. But they now belonged to the Church.

Israel as a nation, has been set aside. Time out. Time stops for Israel at the 69th week. God sends blindness to Israel. God is now working with the Church and bringing in many Gentiles into it. (Rom. 11:25)

Once the amount of Gentiles be completed, God once again begins working with Israel. God does not work with the Church and Israel on the earth at the same time. Thus the Rapture takes the Church out. The 70th week begins.

This is my belief, which is based upon the Dispensational view of Scripture.

Quantrill
 

JLB

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That quote of mine doesn't imply or say that at all. If you quote all I said in post (124) you would see that I do not imply that.

Sir it’s your quote, from your post.

The 'church in the wilderness' is not the Church, the Body of Jesus Christ. The believers before Israel are not Israel. The Church of Christ is not Israel.

The Church of Christ began at Pentecost. When one is born-again today, the Holy Spirit gives life and indwells that one, making him part of the Body of Christ.

The Church is a unique body of believers. Just as Israel is also. Yes, both the Church and Israel have their source and benefit from the Abrahamic Covenant.

Quantrill


People were baptized with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, not born again.

One is born again when they believe the Gospel.

Many people believed the Gospel before Pentecost.



JLB
 

Quantrill

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Sir it’s your quote, from your post.




People were baptized with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, not born again.

One is born again when they believe the Gospel.

Many people believed the Gospel before Pentecost.



JLB

What Gospel?

Quantrill
 

JLB

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What Gospel?

Quantrill

The Gospel of Jesus Christ.

The Gospel He preached.

The Gospel Paul preached.

The Gospel His Apostles preached.


And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:14


The same Gospel He preached, and continues to be preached unto the end; The only Gospel.


since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thessalonians 1:6-8

  • on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.





JLB
 

Quantrill

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The Gospel of Jesus Christ.

The Gospel He preached.

The Gospel Paul preached.

The Gospel His Apostles preached.


And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:14


The same Gospel He preached, and continues to be preached unto the end; The only Gospel.


since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thessalonians 1:6-8

  • on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.





JLB

The Gospel first preached by John the Baptist, Jesus, and the disciples was not the Gospel preached by Paul.

The Gospel first preached was the Gospel of the Kingdom. (Matt. 3:2) (4:17) (10:5-7)

Paul's Gospel was later. (Gal. 1:11-12)

Quantrill
 

JLB

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The Gospel first preached by John the Baptist, Jesus, and the disciples was not the Gospel preached by Paul.

How so?

Paul preached the same Gospel Jesus sent him to preach, which is the same Gospel He sent His other Apostles to preach.


Jesus Preached —

Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.” Mark 1:14-15


Jesus sent His Apostles to preach —

And He called the twelve to Himself, and began to send them out two by two, and gave them power over unclean spirits. He commanded them to take nothing for the journey except a staff—no bag, no bread, no copper in their money belts— but to wear sandals, and not to put on two tunics.
Also He said to them, “In whatever place you enter a house, stay there till you depart from that place. And whoever will not receive you nor hear you, when you depart from there, shake off the dust under your feet as a testimony against them. Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!”
So they went out and preached that people should repent.
Mark 6:7-12



Jesus sent Paul to preach —

But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’ “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:16-20


The Gospel of Jesus Christ contains the word repent, which means turn to God in submission to Him as Lord;

It means we are to follow His teachings and commandments,
ie; obey Jesus as our Lord, because He is now our Lord, because we have turned away from Satan as our lord.


Thankfully, we have the record of the scriptures to prove this.

There is one Gospel; The Gospel of Jesus Christ.



JLB
 
Last edited:

JLB

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The Gospel first preached was the Gospel of the Kingdom. (Matt. 3:2) (4:17) (10:5-7)

Paul's Gospel was later. (Gal. 1:11-12)

I already gave you the words of Jesus Christ that concerns the continuity of His Gospel that He preached, the Gospel of the kingdom, that will continue to be preached through the last Day when He returns.


And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:14


The same Gospel He preached, and continues to be preached unto the end; The only Gospel.


Your man made theology is blinding you from believing the words of Jesus Christ.


Please embrace and believe the words of Jesus Christ.



JLB
 
Last edited:

Quantrill

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How so?

Paul preached the same Gospel Jesus sent him to preach, which is the same Gospel He sent His other Apostles to preach.


Jesus Preached —

Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.” Mark 1:14-15


Jesus sent His Apostles to preach —

And He called the twelve to Himself, and began to send them out two by two, and gave them power over unclean spirits. He commanded them to take nothing for the journey except a staff—no bag, no bread, no copper in their money belts— but to wear sandals, and not to put on two tunics.
Also He said to them, “In whatever place you enter a house, stay there till you depart from that place. And whoever will not receive you nor hear you, when you depart from there, shake off the dust under your feet as a testimony against them. Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!”
So they went out and preached that people should repent.
Mark 6:7-12



Jesus sent Paul to preach —

But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’ “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:16-20


The Gospel of Jesus Christ contains the word repent, which means turn to God in submission to Him as Lord;

It means we are to follow His teachings and commandments,
ie; obey Jesus as our Lord, because He is now our Lord, because we have turned away from Satan as our lord.


Thankfully, we have the record of the scriptures to prove this.

There is one Gospel; The Gospel of Jesus Christ.



JLB

Paul's Gospel centered on faith in the Person of Jesus Christ, Who He is. (Acts 16:30-31) The Gospel of the Kingdom was to Israel alone and centered on repentance toward God because the King was here and ready to establish the Kingdom. (Matt. 10:5)

Once the King was rejected, (Matt. 12:24-50), the Kingdom was taken away. It would not come. Nothing left but going to the Cross. Now the focus was not on the Kingdom that was to be given Israel. The focus would be on the Person of Christ. (Matt. 16:13-18) This Gospel would be given and enlarged upon by Christ to Paul. This Gospel was to go to all nations of the world. (Matt. 28:18-20)

Just because repentance is involved in both Gospels, doesn't make the Gospel the same. Both Gospels have salvation as the core, but that doesn't make them the same Gospel. The Gospel of the Kingdom is rooted in the Old Testament. The Gospel of Grace, Paul's Gospel was new. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved". (Acts 16:30-31)

Quantrill
 

Quantrill

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I already gave you the words of Jesus Christ that concerns the continuity of His Gospel that He preached, the Gospel of the kingdom, that will continue to be preached through the last Day when He returns.


And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:14


The same Gospel He preached, and continues to be preached unto the end; The only Gospel.


Your man made theology is blinding you from believing the words of Jesus Christ.


Please embrace and believe the words of Jesus Christ.



JLB

There is no continuity of the Gospel of the Kingdom throughout history which will culminate in the last days. It stopped when Israel rejected her King. That it will be preached again in the last days, yes. But that will be after the Church is Raptured out and God picks up again working with Israel.

And that Gospel will then be preached to all the world. (Matt. 24:14) But not until then. See how perfect the order is?

I do embrace and believe the words of Christ.

Quantrill
 

for_his_glory

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The Gospel first preached by John the Baptist, Jesus, and the disciples was not the Gospel preached by Paul.

The Gospel first preached was the Gospel of the Kingdom. (Matt. 3:2) (4:17) (10:5-7)

Paul's Gospel was later. (Gal. 1:11-12)

Quantrill
Is it Paul's gospel, or is it the gospel of Christ Jesus for what He taught who by God's Holy Spirit anointed and sent Paul out to preach the gospel of Christ to the Gentile nations. Man does not have a gospel, but many are taught from the doctrines of man. Big difference.
 
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