How To Idenify FALSE Teachers!

[Elijah674]

Re: Re: How To Recognize the False Teacher

This is from another site which finds many good 'posts' to recognize the good from the bad. Perhaps some there might drop over here?;) --Elijah

[FONT=Verdana,arial]insular926 wrote: [/FONT]

If they teach that we don't have Freewill then this is a really big indicator among other things mind you.

___________

--Elijah here:
Sounds like you BELIEVE the Word here by Peter.. 'While they PROMISE them LIBERTY, they themselves are servants of corruption.' (such as FALSE 't'eachers) And the VOMIT?? 'The dog IS TURNED TO HIS OWN VOMIT [[[AGAIN]]]'.!! 2 Peter 2:18--22 And 'they speak great swelling words of vainity..'
If that does not VOID OUT Baptist doctrine nothing does. But that is just one more identification of the 'False Teacher'. (and as the post finds, there are many!) But here is the question for you, how can one be honest & say that this doctrine of the Baptist is a 'c'hristian one??

And that is not saying that there has not been many who have died & are still 'blindly' yoked in membership who will be saved, but only that the 'church' is as Rev. 17:1-5 finds them, as one of the daughters of rome which are seen in the end as THE ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH.

 

[Pard]

Just for the unenlightened, like myself, what's wrong with Baptist doctrine? Or do you mean the doctrine of baptism? Either way, could you expand? Also, could you expand on the little quoted bit? How is the teaching of not having freewill the sign of a false teacher?

I, myself, would have to say that there is indeed a difference between "false teachers" and "teachers of false doctrine". I see the take of the New Testament as being one that does hate "false teachers" and that's very good, because they sow the seed of deceit, which leads away from Christ. A false teacher is like, for example, a Mormon preacher or a Watchtower preacher or a Muslim preacher. They preach a "gospel" that leads away from the GOOD NEWS! They are the people who Paul curses over and over in his letters.

Now there are also "teachers of false doctrine", and given the number of doctrines that are still manage to fit within the boundaries of being a christian I must say that we are all at least followers of some false doctrine, and thus every teacher teaches some false doctrine. But the key here is that false doctrine is not something that leads from salvation, some doctrine may put strain on a believer, cause them doubt, cause them some real intellectual dilemmas, but it is not a means to which they are led away from Christ.

We have many "in house" disputes, doesn't mean that the people who teach them are false teachers. Calvin and Arminius are both going to be in heaven, it's just one was right and one was wrong (or very possibly both were wrong and Augustine was right... or someone else entirely!).

The reason I bring this up is because the two (maybe three?) issues you raise all appear to be in house matters and of no significance to the issue of ones salvation, and thus do not fall within the curse laid down by Paul against false teachers.

 

[Elijah674]

Re: Re: How To Recognize the False Teacher

This is from another site which finds many good 'posts' to recognize the good from the bad. Perhaps some there might drop over here?;) --Elijah

[FONT=Verdana,arial]insular926 wrote: [/FONT]

If they teach that we don't have Freewill then this is a really big indicator among other things mind you.

___________

--Elijah here:
Sounds like you BELIEVE the Word here by Peter.. 'While they PROMISE them LIBERTY, they themselves are servants of corruption.' (such as FALSE 't'eachers) And the VOMIT?? 'The dog IS TURNED TO HIS OWN VOMIT [[[AGAIN]]]'.!! 2 Peter 2:18--22 And 'they speak great swelling words of vainity..'
If that does not VOID OUT Baptist doctrine nothing does. But that is just one more identification of the 'False Teacher'. (and as the post finds, there are many!) But here is the question for you, how can one be honest & say that this doctrine of the Baptist is a 'c'hristian one??

And that is not saying that there has not been many who have died & are still 'blindly' yoked in membership who will be saved, but only that the 'church' is as Rev. 17:1-5 finds them, as one of the daughters of rome which are seen in the end as THE ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH.

OK: Just some more Truth. There are plenty of these ones around that at least make the below claim. Peter & the penman of Heb. ‘testify’ exactly alike! (1 Cor. 14:32!) Yet, the Word of ‘WERE’ + ‘HAVE TASTED’ + [[WERE MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST]] is so clearly Inspired & penned that one could ever understand what their FATE IS TO BE if the warning is not heeded! (that of Obad. 1:16)



Heb. 6


[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


--Elijah

 

[Jethro Bodine]

John talks at length about how to identify those who are not from God and are leading the church astray and not preparing them for the Day of Judgment. They deny that Jesus came in the flesh and is the one who came from heaven (unlike the rest of us), and they are not characterized and known by their love--specifically their love for the body of Christ.

Teachers who beat up the church are showing they are not from God. We have no obligation to anyone who claims to be speaking on behalf of God but who is not characterized as fulfilling the royal law of scripture 'love your neighbor as yourself'. Stay away from them--no matter how compelling, or articulate, or charismatic, or educated, or gifted they seem to be.

 

[Elijah674]

Lots of talk! (per/subject only!)

Matthew 15.8
[This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth], and honoreth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

Romans 3.13
Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

Then there is Matt. 23:1-3 which hardly any today understand nor get much from either! (in other True Words of Christ, there is more than one Truth in the verses!)

Matt. 23
[1] Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
[2] Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
[3] [All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe], that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

Again, just talk, talk & more talk [with NO 'WORKS' of OBEDIENCE!]

--Elijah

 

[Pard]

Why do I always feel insulted when I try to contribute to Elijah's topics?

 

[Kidron]

The easiest way to identify a false teacher is to find out how they actually identify with the Grace of God and Justification by Faith alone in Christ.
If they try to add to it or change it, then you are dealing with a false teacher.
False teachers have no understanding of the imputed righteousness of Christ as a free Gift, and will always try to add the law or works or deeds to the finished work of the cross.
They will also always try to argue with you that simple faith in Christ alone without water baptism or "living right", cannot save you.
Simply ask them if Faith in Christ alone saves you or not.
Simply ask them if they can lose their salvation.
Simply ask them if you can be saved without water baptism.
If they tell you that "faith" is not all there is....
If they tell you that you can lose your salvation...
If they tell you that water baptism saves you....
Then you are dealing with a false teacher every single time.



K

 

[Cassian]

The easiest way to identify a false teacher is to find out how they actually identify with the Grace of God and Justification by Faith alone in Christ.
If they try to add to it or change it, then you are dealing with a false teacher.
False teachers have no understanding of the imputed righteousness of Christ as a free Gift, and will always try to add the law or works or deeds to the finished work of the cross.
They will also always try to argue with you that simple faith in Christ alone without water baptism or "living right", cannot save you.
Simply ask them if Faith in Christ alone saves you or not.
Simply ask them if they can lose their salvation.
Simply ask them if you can be saved without water baptism.
If they tell you that "faith" is not all there is....
If they tell you that you can lose your salvation...
If they tell you that water baptism saves you....
Then you are dealing with a false teacher every single time.



K

It is interesting to note that none of the above have existed until the reformation. None existed in the early Church. There are no extent history of any such teachings. They all appear after the reformation in man's interrpetation of a text.

The test the Church has used for 2000 years is known as the "rule of faith". That which has not been believed from the beginning, by all, everywhere is false.

 

[Elijah674]

Why do I always feel insulted when I try to contribute to Elijah's topics?

Could it be your conscience?? Acts 9:5???
I do not even know you, let alone try to reply to anything other than the scriptual content?

But Forum: (whoever!) Identifying FALSE Teachers finds 1 John 2:4 needful, + Isa. 8:20 + James 2:10 along with Rev. 12:17 identification of the last day saved ones.

1 John 2
[4] He that saith, I know him,(or Love Him) and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Isa. 8
[20] To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

(Hey forum, even note two ways to find the light/less 'teachers'! The Lord wrote the Law Himself & His 'Holy pennman wrote the 'testimony' part of truth as they were Inspired to pen it! )

James 2
[10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
[12] So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

And Rev. 12:17 has it this way also, pay attention!;)
[17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Again we see the Commandments of God are to be Lovingly kept along with Isa. 8:20's TESTIMONY of the Master! Matt. 4:4 + 2 Tim. 3:16


--Elijah

 

[Pard]

I think it's because I quote the Bible and then you call me a liar based solely on what the BIBLE quote said... Yeah, that's it.

 

[John O]

I think it's because I quote the Bible and then you call me a liar based solely on what the BIBLE quote said... Yeah, that's it.

It appears that many consider the word of God to be a weapon that is designed to cut of the heads of the enemy. While the word of God is indeed sharper than a two edge sword Jesus used it to get to the heart of the matter.

I think Jesus saw it more important to show love than to be right. He was right and had understanding of all things yet He used the word not to kill but to expose and even in exposing the heart attitude of people He showed love and mercy even to those who opposed Him.

John O

 

[Slider]

It appears that many consider the word of God to be a weapon that is designed to cut of the heads of the enemy. While the word of God is indeed sharper than a two edge sword Jesus used it to get to the heart of the matter.

I think Jesus saw it more important to show love than to be right. He was right and had understanding of all things yet He used the word not to kill but to expose and even in exposing the heart attitude of people He showed love and mercy even to those who opposed Him.

John O

I don't know about that John.... Perhaps if you would expound on your point a bit more I might agree. Here's my view on what you just said (particularly the highlighted statement.

While he did show love in all that he did, its not the type of love we as flesh and blood typically relate to. He showed love by telling the truth, and it didn't matter who was offended by it -- not his own disciples nor the pharisees. It WAS love toward them, but more importantly to the Word of God.

I was reading Luke 12 yesterday (and it's because of a verse I think you -- John O -- had used on more than one occasion recently; about much given/much required) and during this chapter Jesus is in a major temper tantrum. He was calling people hypocrits left and right. This is not what we humans would call a loving attitude. He even said during this discourse that he came to bring division.

So if "being right" = "truth", I would say Jesus saw it more important to be right than to show love. Of course, he (and we also) showed love WHEN he he spoke the truth -- even if it comes with a rebuke and being called a hypocrite.... At least he's telling you how to avoid damnation.

People love to go to 1 John 4:8 and say "God is love". Yes, he is. I acknowledge that verse. However, don't forget that he is also "Truth" as said John 14:6.

 

[Kidron]

It is interesting to note that none of the above have existed until the reformation. None existed in the early Church. There are no extent history of any such teachings. They all appear after the reformation in man's interrpetation of a text.

The test the Church has used for 2000 years is known as the "rule of faith". That which has not been believed from the beginning, by all, everywhere is false.

Actually, there were completed NT texts by the 4th century.
U might want to check out some church history or manuscript evidence so that you can post a more accurate point of view.



K

 

[Elijah674]

Re: How To Idenify FALSE Teachers!

Originally Posted by Pard
I think it's because I quote the Bible and then you call me a liar based solely on what the BIBLE quote said... Yeah, that's it.

___________




It appears that many consider the word of God to be a weapon that is designed to cut of the heads of the enemy. While the word of God is indeed sharper than a two edge sword Jesus used it to get to the heart of the matter.

I think Jesus saw it more important to show love than to be right. He was right and had understanding of all things yet He used the word not to kill but to expose and even in exposing the heart attitude of people He showed love and mercy even to those who opposed Him.

John O
_____

Elijah here: For some known reason I have not read your postings for several months Pard. Now I find your couple posts being repeated with my name in them by another posting person.

So maybe with this extra bit of information you can assess better that I have not called you a liar anywhere? If it has been done??? I deeply apologize, for there is none of mankind that I claim to know the heart of, or their growth. Or even what might be later on?? Acts 9

And there are several folks who I choose not to dialoge with on this forum because 'i' or they fit into Titus 3:9-11 verses as I see it. And that is 'my' judgement call to make regardless of it being right or wrong. I had always believed that the Rom. 8:14 One was the One to lead us as God would have it.

--Elijah
​

 

[Cassian]

Actually, there were completed NT texts by the 4th century.
U might want to check out some church history or manuscript evidence so that you can post a more accurate point of view.



K

I have done so quite exhaustively and I have yet to find any teachings that you listed. None of them appear until after the reformation.
Since you are asserting that the list you posted are teachings from scripture you should have abundance of evidence since the teachings of God's revelation is 2000 years old.

 

[Pard]

Elijah here: For some known reason I have not read your postings for several months Pard. Now I find your couple posts being repeated with my name in them by another posting person.

So maybe with this extra bit of information you can assess better that I have not called you a liar anywhere? If it has been done??? I deeply apologize, for there is none of mankind that I claim to know the heart of, or their growth. Or even what might be later on?? Acts 9

And there are several folks who I choose not to dialoge with on this forum because 'i' or they fit into Titus 3:9-11 verses as I see it. And that is 'my' judgement call to make regardless of it being right or wrong. I had always believed that the Rom. 8:14 One was the One to lead us as God would have it.

--Elijah
[/INDENT]

I don't wish to quarrel because I like you, so let us let bygones be bygones, then.

Still, I would let my initial post stand, and by way I am not casting anything against the premise of this topic but merely adding to it, that there is a difference between a false teacher and a teacher of false doctrine.

A false teacher is someone like Dollar who preaches the gospel of materialism, that God makes all His people billionaires and that they need to buy terribly extravagant gifts for themselves, and that in this way they are giving to God and furthering the gospel because their wealth will be something another will covet and then turn to God for. This is false teaching.

However, false doctrine is something that doesn't point away from God, or that it may, but only in the light of the true doctrine, but is neveretheless false.

 

[for_his_glory]

1 John 4:1-6
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

When we stand individually before Jesus as he separates the goats from the sheep, or the tares from the wheat we will have to give account of what we have learned and what we have taught others and there will be no excuses for what we have allowed ourselves to learn and teach as now we have that very Spirit of discernment. Just because it's called a Church does not mean it's Gods true Church.

 

[greatisthelight]

If they say that:

There Church is the way to Heaven and all others are false.
They should go to an island and live under theocracy with them in charge
When they teach people to not to talk to anyone who doesn't think them, the teacher, is correct

 

[Cassian]

If they say that:

There Church is the way to Heaven and all others are false.
They should go to an island and live under theocracy with them in charge
When they teach people to not to talk to anyone who doesn't think them, the teacher, is correct

which leaves Christ's Church and Christianity as a false gospel. Didn't Christ say that He is the ONLY way, one cannot see His Kingdom unless he is born of the water and the Spirit? His Kingdom is His Church, His Body.

 

[Kidron]

which leaves Christ's Church and Christianity as a false gospel. Didn't Christ say that He is the ONLY way, one cannot see His Kingdom unless he is born of the water and the Spirit? His Kingdom is His Church, His Body.

Cassian,

You were "born of the water" when you were being birthed from your mother's birth canal.
Even Nicodemus understood this in John 3:4, and he was a lot more familiar
with a Jewish water baptism ritual then we are...
However, its up to Christians to misread the verse, misunderstand the text, and then twist it as you have.


K