How?

[Josef]

Hey All,
I have been thinking about this for awhile. I would like to hear how you solve it.

God cannot lie. He cannot even be tempted to sin. That is a Biblical fact.

Hebrews 6:17-18 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

So, how can God, who cannot lie, or be tempted to sin, create beings capable of doing what He cannot?


Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[Fastfredy0]

So, how can God, who cannot lie, or be tempted to sin, create beings capable of doing what He cannot?

No one knows "how" God creates something from nothing save Himself.
Maybe you meant to ask "why" would God create creatures that would sin.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

Hey All,
I have been thinking about this for awhile. I would like to hear how you solve it.

God cannot lie. He cannot even be tempted to sin. That is a Biblical fact.

Hebrews 6:17-18 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

So, how can God, who cannot lie, or be tempted to sin, create beings capable of doing what He cannot?


Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

That is a very interesting thought; my answer might lie in free will. God has free will; but He chooses not to lie or be tempted by Sin. His children were also given free will; and it is the choices we make to either be more like Our Father or not. Hence, some of the Scriptures to guide us into His Light.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

So, how can God, who cannot lie, or be tempted to sin, create beings capable of doing what He cannot?

I think I specifically refuted this premise in my thread about celibacy, that all things created by God are GOOD, nothing is evil. Please note that "lie" and "temptation" are not tangible, material beings, those are metaphysical concepts, those are behaviors contrary to God's design, lie is distortion of the truth, sin is deviation from the purpose, God did NOT create those, so don't attribute them to God.

You phrase your question as though God intentionally created Adam and Eve to sin, while God created them in His own image as His representatives on earth. Adam was the first son of God (Lk. 3:38), and God loved him as a son, and Adam loved Eve, and that's where the problem arose:

“Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” (Gen. 2:16-17)
“We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’ ”(Gen. 3:2-3)

As you can see, God gave Adam this one order for his own good, and Adam relayed it to Eve, but inaccurately. He skipped certain words and added his own contents. God didn't restrain him from touching the tree, he restrined Eve from touching it, that's the first man made regulation. Of course, Adam added it out of good intention, he was being protective, he might be afraid of that tree, but good intention paved the path to hell, it made God look restrictive and it piqued Eve's curiosity. She didn't care about all the other trees, the only thing on her mind was this one Tree of Knowledge which was off limit, it planted doubt in her mind, made her question this order, that God was not being honest, He was keeping a secret from her, this kind of thinking process is rooted in our psychology. This was a vulnerability, it was exploited by Satan, which led Eve and then Adam to sin.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

This was a vulnerability, it was exploited by Satan, which led Eve and then Adam to sin.

Sorry, but I am curious; do you believe Satan created the Tree of Knowledge? Do you believe Satan is powerful enough to challenge God in His own creation? Do you believe Satan is "a god" who is powerful enough to actually challenge Our Lord and Father; who is the One Supreme Being over all creation?

God did create the Tree of Knowledge for a purpose; and it did serve it's purpose as God had planned.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

God did create the Tree of Knowledge for a purpose; and it did serve it's purpose as God had planned.

Yes, the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil was created by God for mankind. "Woe to those who call evil good and good evil!" (Is. 5:20) The truth behind it is that knowledge is power, and with great power comes great responsibility. Knowledge itself is NOT evil, nor was it created by Satan; It is a double-edged sword, it could benefit you, or it could harm you. I believe that Adam ate the tree prematurely, he was not responsible enough to handle the knowledge, and he chose the evil and refused the good. In stark contrast, Jesus, the last Adam, was prophesied to "refuse the evil and choose the good" (Is. 7:16), that's maturity and responsibility.

 

[miamited]

So, how can God, who cannot lie, or be tempted to sin, create beings capable of doing what He cannot?

Hi Josef

Because what He seeks; what He will ultimately cull from the harvest of the earth, is a people who will love and enjoy His presence one with another for eternity by their free will choice. But it is that same desire of God that we have the choice to love Him, that also gives us the choice not to. That's sin. God didn't create us to go that way. But He did create us to make that choice.

Just as He gave the law unto Israel and told them to choose now this day whom you will follow. He is saying the same thing to us, speaking to us through His Son. God didn't create this realm of existence just making another variety of animal that would always sit up for food like my cat. He is going to one day close out this existence that we now live in. That Peter describes as the days of His patience.

God is working out a great plan for all those who will believe Him and trust Him. Just as God's word tells us that He created the angelic realm and is one day going to cast all of the wicked angels into the pit, He will also at that time clean up the earth and all those who followed after them.

He created it all. Raised up a people to record His testimony to us and provide the way of righteousness. Now He's waiting. Who will hear His call? Who will answer His cry?

God bless,
Ted

 

[miamited]

 

[Josef]

No one knows "how" God creates something from nothing save Himself.
Maybe you meant to ask "why" would God create creatures that would sin.

Hey All,
Fastfredy0, why is another issue.
I am presenting a logical and/or ethical dilemma.

How can God, who cannot sin, create beings with the capability of sinning?

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Hey All,
Fastfredy0, why is another issue.
I am presenting a logical and/or ethical dilemma.

How can God, who cannot sin, create beings with the capability of sinning?

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

Define "sinning" first.

 

[Tenchi]

Hey All,
I have been thinking about this for awhile. I would like to hear how you solve it.

God cannot lie. He cannot even be tempted to sin. That is a Biblical fact.

Hebrews 6:17-18 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

So, how can God, who cannot lie, or be tempted to sin, create beings capable of doing what He cannot?

God is "limited" by His nature. He can no more tell an untruth than a bachelor can be married, or a circle can have right angles. But this doesn't make God lesser than the Man who can lie, right? Lying is not an additional ability the liar possesses but simply the effect of the absence of Truth. Where Truth may be absent in the liar, it can't ever be absent in God. It seems to me, then, that the liar does not have a capability that God does not but merely bears a deficiency not present in God.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

It seems to me, then, that the liar does not have a capability that God does not but merely bears a deficiency not present in God.

The problem with that point of view is that God did create "everything"; all that is. God created "man" in His image; how can the "all seeing, all knowing" Father create a "being" that carries a "deficiency" that simply "popped up". That's like saying the big bang theory is true; something that just "happened".

 

[JT4444]

The problem with that point of view is that God did create "everything"; all that is. God created "man" in His image; how can the "all seeing, all knowing" Father create a "being" that carries a "deficiency" that simply "popped up". That's like saying the big bang theory is true; something that just "happened".

The BIg Bang Theory is true, but that doesn't mean that there is no God. The Big Bang Theory affirmed that the universe had a beginning point. Many people believed that the universe was eternal before the BBT.

 

[Free]

The problem with that point of view is that God did create "everything"; all that is. God created "man" in His image; how can the "all seeing, all knowing" Father create a "being" that carries a "deficiency" that simply "popped up". That's like saying the big bang theory is true; something that just "happened".

It didn't simply pop up. God created man in his image, which, I would argue, included free will--Adam and Eve being the only humans to have anything close to resembling what we call free will. As such, there was no deficiency initially. They used their choice to disobey God, causing the fall of mankind and marring the image of God in which they were made.

 

[miamited]

The problem with that point of view is that God did create "everything"; all that is. God created "man" in His image; how can the "all seeing, all knowing" Father create a "being" that carries a "deficiency" that simply "popped up". That's like saying the big bang theory is true; something that just "happened".

Hi Enlightenedtruth

Honestly, I have no idea how you find any comparison in that analogy.

God bless,
Ted

 

[for_his_glory]

So, how can God, who cannot lie, or be tempted to sin, create beings capable of doing what He cannot?

It's all about the freewill choices we make as God did not create us like robots, but to experience the choices we have that lay before us. When God breathed the breath of life in us we became a living soul that we would be holy and blameless before Him. The soul makes up the conscious part of ones being, is that of thought, action and emotion. The spiritual nature of man regarded as immortal and separable from the body/flesh at death and susceptible to happiness or misery in a future state, (freewill).

Even though we were created in the image of God we have also allowed ourselves to become separate from God by the choices we make as we follow the lust/pleasures of the flesh as we are all sinners and fallen short of God's glory. We need to come into an equality of the nature and characteristics of the Father. We can do this through the fruit of the Spirit that is the love of God who by His mercy and grace will save all that return back to Him.

God did not predestine the man (which individuals would be saved & lost), He predestined the plan (how men would be saved) - read again Acts 10:34-35; Eph. 1:3-12; Rom. 8:28-30; 10:9-17.

 

[miamited]

God did not predestine the man (which individuals would be saved & lost), He predestined the plan (how men would be saved) - read again Acts 10:34-35; Eph. 1:3-12; Rom. 8:28-30; 10:9-17.

Amen!!! And again I say Amen!

Those whom He predestined are the one's that will come to faith in His Son. All those who would/will/came to believe are predestined by the very promises of God from one end of the Scriptures to the other... to be SAVED!! Yes, those who God has predestined will be saved!!! God has predestined that everyone who believes in His Son will be saved. It's the entire foundation of John 3:16

God did not predestine John or Sam or Mary or Sue. He did not predestine you by name. But because you have believed in God's one and only Son, then you have become a part of those who have always been predestined to receive God's mercy and grace. Those who would one day believe in the testimony and sacrifice of His servant. Those people were predestined from the moment God's plan for His Son's death was established.

When was that?

God bless,
Ted

 

[Hopeful 2]

Hey All,
I have been thinking about this for awhile. I would like to hear how you solve it.

God cannot lie. He cannot even be tempted to sin. That is a Biblical fact.

Hebrews 6:17-18 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

So, how can God, who cannot lie, or be tempted to sin, create beings capable of doing what He cannot?

I believe the answer is in the fact that it wasn't JUST God that created us in "our" image...
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." (Gen 1:26)
"Our" would encapsulate both God, and the Word.
The Word, once wearing flesh, could be tempted.

 

[miamited]

How can God, who cannot sin, create beings with the capability of sinning?

Hi Josef

I really can't tell you how, beyond what God has told me about the 'how'. The account says that He scooped some dirt from the earth and formed man. I believe that's 'how' God made a creature capable of sinning. But it wasn't a sin to make that man, do you believe? What was God's sin in this? That seems to be the point that such a question would naturally lead to.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Free]

I believe the answer is in the fact that it wasn't JUST God that created us in "our" image...
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." (Gen 1:26)
"Our" would encapsulate both God, and the Word.
The Word, once wearing flesh, could be tempted.

What do you mean by "JUST God"?

Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. (ESV)

"Us" and "our" refer only to God, as verse 27 indicates. We are created in God's image only.