I really need advice

[Nikki]

This is probably going to be long. DH's parents have been raising his sisters girls since they were infants (T is now 17 and A 13). DH's sister and her ex both gave up their rights to the kids. The dad comes to see them for a couple hours maybe once every 3 years. The mom goes over frequently, but she only acts like a mother when one of them is in trouble and she fusses at them. She also has another child that is 10 (came from when she cheated on her husband) and she has now sent THAT child to Florida to live with the father. She's never taken any responsibility for anything. Now a bit of background on DH's parents. They have provided for the kids, BUT they have had far from a normal upbringing in that house. DH's parents are in their mid 70's and have kept those kids under lock and key. They have never been allowed to do sports, never been allowed to have friends over, never been allowed to go to the youth groups at their church, etc. T has been wanting to get a job for over a year now and they refuse to let her. Now we are being told by T that DH's dad is beating her. I don't know what to believe, but DH says it wouldn't surprise him. My girls have said they've seen him haul off and smack her across the face more than once when they were over there (why I'm just now hearing this, I don't know). T is beginning to go BUCK WILD....which I knew would happen all along. There is SOOOO much more to the life they've been living. T is wanting to go to prom (she's in 11th grade) and they won't let her. She's not allowed to go anywhere but school unless DH's parents are there. The day before yesterday T had some boy that she met online pick her up from school. They finally found her and the police picked her up. I got a text from T yesterday morning (she has no phone...she's was using a friends) saying that DH's dad hit her and she wasn't going home. DSS was up there, but I guess they didn't believe anything T was saying because they made T get on the bus but not before T called me in hysterics begging me to come get her. I explained that I had no legal rights and that the cops would just show up and remove her from my home. Plus, who's to say that T is telling the truth. Regardless though, DH said that it was horrible living at home and he and all 4 of his siblings left as soon as they turned 18. Of course they all latched onto the first loser that came along or they went buck wild (DH was on the verge of becoming an alcoholic at that point). I don't know what to do. I've always told T that my home is open if she ever needs somewhere to go, but legally, that's not true. Do I get involved or do I stay out of if? T is going to end up dead if she doesn't get some normalcy and love in her life. I just don't know what to do. Do you have ANY advice?
Oh, and now DH's parents are talking about trying to get T put into the hospital. I don't know if that would make things better or worse. Does T need help? YES. She has been rejected by both parents and she has a LOT of anger. Not to mention she's 17 and has never had a normal teenage life. She turns 18 in August and is going to take off with the first boy that will take her. She will either end up pregnant or dead I'm afraid. DH's mom keeps calling me asking if I think she's mean and if I think she's done a bad job of raising them. I just respond with "You're doing the best you know how to do". I'm afraid if I get too involved that they will refuse to let us see the girls. They already think DH and I are "liberal" parents because we let our girls go places without us occasionally. Heck, DH's mom told me that I was a "bad mom" because I went on a weekend trip WITH MY MOM to my sisters one state away without my girls. I don't know what to do. DH and I would take T in, but DH's parents would never allow that to happen. As of now, T turns 18 in August and she plans on dropping out of school and moving in with any boy that will take her. There's not much time left to help her.

 

[Nikki]

OH! And yesterday DH's mother told T "Your aunt loves you more than your own mama". Even if that's true, you DON'T say that!!!

 

[Deborah13]

OH! And yesterday DH's mother told T "Your aunt loves you more than your own mama". Even if that's true, you DON'T say that!!!

First what is your husband's opinion. You can't do anything without him being in agreement.
That said, this is what I would do if my husband was agreeable to it. She will be 18 very soon. I would sit down with her, with my husband present, and make her a promise. That if she will hold out until then that you will take her into your home. That way she has something to look forward to besides running away or offering herself up to some guy, in order to be free.
I would encourage her in that she has a very long life ahead of her so she does not want to make foolish decisions in order to get instantaneous relief. Explain to her that she would be exchanging one misery for another. Her childhood may have been awful but she can have a wonderful adult life if she chooses to.
I will lift up a prayer for all of you.

 

[Nikki]

My husband has tried to tell his parents that they have done more harm than good, but he said his dad just ignores him and his mom just starts crying and saying "I'm just stupid I guess". He replies telling her that he never said she was stupid but that they can't keep the kids like caged animals. They also show ZERO affection. He said he never remembers a time in his life when either of his parents said "I love you" to him. I'm sorry, but people need to hear that. Especially kids.

DH said she can live with us. There would be rules and I told him that IF she did, that I would want to write up a contract and have her sign it stating that if we feel as though things are getting out of control or if she can't follow our rules, then she would have to leave. The eviction process without a pre-signed contract in this state is awful. I've known parents that have tried to get their adult kids removed from the home and it was a lengthy and costly process being as they had no prior agreement on paper.

I'm hoping to be able to take T for a while tomorrow and talk to her. DH's mom has given me permission. I think your advice is good and I will lay that on the table to T tomorrow.

 

[Deborah13]

My husband has tried to tell his parents that they have done more harm than good, but he said his dad just ignores him and his mom just starts crying and saying "I'm just stupid I guess". He replies telling her that he never said she was stupid but that they can't keep the kids like caged animals. They also show ZERO affection. He said he never remembers a time in his life when either of his parents said "I love you" to him. I'm sorry, but people need to hear that. Especially kids.

DH said she can live with us. There would be rules and I told him that IF she did, that I would want to write up a contract and have her sign it stating that if we feel as though things are getting out of control or if she can't follow our rules, then she would have to leave. The eviction process without a pre-signed contract in this state is awful. I've known parents that have tried to get their adult kids removed from the home and it was a lengthy and costly process being as they had no prior agreement on paper.

I'm hoping to be able to take T for a while tomorrow and talk to her. DH's mom has given me permission. I think your advice is good and I will lay that on the table to T tomorrow.

I agree with your written contract that spells out the rules of your home. She needs to be in full acknowledgment and agree to the terms or she could make excuses later.
I actually told my 9 yrs old grandson the same thing was going to happen in our home, my daughter and her son, live with us. They are both blessings. But he was making excuses, like "oh I forgot" and "I don't remember that rule", there are very few because he doesn't need them, he's usually self-disciplined in his actions. But I told him that if he couldn't remember we would write them down and he could sign his name verifying that he knew of their existence. He chose not to make excuses again. So far, so good.

 

[Nikki]

I've been given permission to have T for the day and possibly the night. Please pray for me. The song "Lord, I need you" came on today as I was coming into work and I just broke down crying.

 

[Deborah13]

I've been given permission to have T for the day and possibly the night. Please pray for me. The song "Lord, I need you" came on today as I was coming into work and I just broke down crying.

The Lord sees your love for this young woman-child, He will surely give you the strength to bear this burden. Tears are good, I believe God designed us with the ability to make lots of them just for these types of situations.
I will pray today for all of you and that the Lord gives you the correct words to say when dealing with others involved in this.
Blessings to you Nikki, remember when you ask Him to be involved and be right there He will not let you down. Jesus our Lord loves you.

 

[Nikki]

I still have both of my nieces here. This morning, my mother-in-law called and asked how things were going and I said "Wonderful". Well, that made her mad and she said she wanted them home. Then she called back a few minutes later crying and told me that I could keep them until this evening.

T and I have talked a lot. I let her know how disappointed I was in her taking off like that and that she deserved so much better than this boy she took off with. She's got a huge hickey on her neck and I asked her if it went any further than that. She claims that they did not have sex. I hope she's not lying to me. She's very angry at her mother, she fears her gpa and she is frustrated and angry that she's never been allowed to have a typical teenage life. BTW...my mil told me this morning that I let my kids run wild. That is SO far from the truth! They rarely do anything and when they do, I know who they are with, where they are at, etc. Heck, I have gps on their phones and they know if they ever turn it off that their phones will be taken away for good. I allow my kids to do things with their friends occasionally (heck, my 16 year old has a JOB...which DH's parents disapprove of. They don't think she should be working) but the majority of time their friends are HERE. I pointed out that all of her kids went wild, moved out or moved in with someone else as soon as they turned 18 because they were never allowed to do anything. DH's mother claims that's not their fault.
DH's parents are so scared of the world. They're almost 80 years old, so there is no way they are going to change at this point in their life.

I was going to call DSS, but being as they didn't believe T's accusations last week and they let him pick her up, I have lost trust in them. DH's mother even told me that he pulled her hair, slapped her in the face and calls her trashy.
WHAT DO I DO if I can't trust DSS?!?!

Right now I told T that if she promises to stop talking to these strange boys, doesn't try taking off again like that and passes the 11th grade that she can move in with us come August. I also told DH's mother that I told T this. I don't think she was happy, but I really don't care at this point. I'm just trying to stop T from heading down a dark path.

 

[Deborah13]

I still have both of my nieces here. This morning, my mother-in-law called and asked how things were going and I said "Wonderful". Well, that made her mad and she said she wanted them home. Then she called back a few minutes later crying and told me that I could keep them until this evening.

T and I have talked a lot. I let her know how disappointed I was in her taking off like that and that she deserved so much better than this boy she took off with. She's got a huge hickey on her neck and I asked her if it went any further than that. She claims that they did not have sex. I hope she's not lying to me. She's very angry at her mother, she fears her gpa and she is frustrated and angry that she's never been allowed to have a typical teenage life. BTW...my mil told me this morning that I let my kids run wild. That is SO far from the truth! They rarely do anything and when they do, I know who they are with, where they are at, etc. Heck, I have gps on their phones and they know if they ever turn it off that their phones will be taken away for good. I allow my kids to do things with their friends occasionally (heck, my 16 year old has a JOB...which DH's parents disapprove of. They don't think she should be working) but the majority of time their friends are HERE. I pointed out that all of her kids went wild, moved out or moved in with someone else as soon as they turned 18 because they were never allowed to do anything. DH's mother claims that's not their fault.
DH's parents are so scared of the world. They're almost 80 years old, so there is no way they are going to change at this point in their life.

I was going to call DSS, but being as they didn't believe T's accusations last week and they let him pick her up, I have lost trust in them. DH's mother even told me that he pulled her hair, slapped her in the face and calls her trashy.
WHAT DO I DO if I can't trust DSS?!?!

Right now I told T that if she promises to stop talking to these strange boys, doesn't try taking off again like that and passes the 11th grade that she can move in with us come August. I also told DH's mother that I told T this. I don't think she was happy, but I really don't care at this point. I'm just trying to stop T from heading down a dark path.

It seems to me that if gdm is totally in agreement gdp, she would not have admitted to you that he is being that violent with this girl. First she appears to be angry then she calls back crying?
Is gdm afraid of gdp?

 

[Nikki]

I don't know. My head is spinning and I feel like spitting fire right now. As it got closer to time for DH's parents to come get the girls, T went outside and was just sitting out there. When they got here, her entire demeanor changed. Why? I'll tell you why. Dh's dad sat on the couch and A (the 13 year old) sat beside him. He started rubbing her hand and said "Gma missed you last night". A said "Me? or her?" (pointing to T in the dining room). He said "Mostly you because you're always the first to come greet us". After that, T began yelling anytime they asked her a question or told her to get her things. I finally got up, took her to another room and she was begging me to not make her go home. *sigh*

I made her promise me that she wouldn't do anything like go off with a boy, run off, etc but honestly, you know how teens can go into a rage and lose control and I'm so afraid that's going to happen. I'm literally sick over this. I wish they would just let her stay with us. She has never been a problem for us.

 

[Nikki]

Gpa has NEVER been mean to Gma. I know that. He protects her. DH said once his oldest brother said "That's stupid" over something that his mom said and his dad grabbed his brother by the throat, threw him to the floor and when he got up, he had his brothers shirt in his hand.

DH went home drunk once and his dad chased him around the yard with a shovel trying to hit him in the head. I'm not saying it's ok to go home drunk (Dh was only 18), but I don't think I would try hitting my kid with a shovel!

 

[Tony Hyman]

Ive just read a book by William Backus called "Telling Each Other The Truth" He is a Phd Christian psychologist.They spesialize in fixing relationships ie Parent - kid, boyfriend- girlfriend, Husband -Wife even Boss bulling worker female or male.He basis his therapy on Christian grounds .If you could read the book you might be inspired to deal with the problems in a systematic way.Google about a bit and see if there isnt such a therapist willing to help you deal with this problem or challenge God has placed before you.Try and be facilitator for all role players.The author says that some states in the USA have Christian psychologists free of charge trying to restore normal family relationships.Who knows what can be achieved if we put our hearts into something worth saving.
Edit :Oh I forgot "Manipulation and Self-Interest" by all involved, is usually the main culprit ,according to the majority of Dr Backus's case studies and findings.

 

[Nikki]

Ive just read a book by William Backus called "Telling Each Other The Truth" He is a Phd Christian psychologist.They spesialize in fixing relationships ie Parent - kid, boyfriend- girlfriend, Husband -Wife even Boss bulling worker female or male.He basis his therapy on Christian grounds .If you could read the book you might be inspired to deal with the problems in a systematic way.Google about a bit and see if there isnt such a therapist willing to help you deal with this problem or challenge God has placed before you.Try and be facilitator for all role players.The author says that some states in the USA have Christian psychologists free of charge trying to restore normal family relationships.Who knows what can be achieved if we put our hearts into something worth saving.
Edit :Oh I forgot "Manipulation and Self-Interest" by all involved, is usually the main culprit ,according to the majority of Dr Backus's case studies and findings.

I'll check into that. Thanks. They were supposed to come spend the day here today but my mil now says no. They are mad at me because T keeps saying she's moving in with us when she turns 18. They keep telling her that we don't want her and neither does anyone else. I told T that while I wish things weren't that way between she and my in-laws and while I wish their relationship could be repaired, that my home will be open to her as long as she doesn't take off again with any boys and as long as she passes her 11th grade year. I am just so sick of it all. It seems like everyone is lying and I don't know who to believe.

 

[Nikki]

Oh, and T is back to posting pictures of herself with shorts rolled up as high as they can go, shirt tied up showing her belly, etc. She's using her body to gain attention from boys. At home, she's constantly being degraded, told that she's trashy, told that nobody wants her; therefore she's going to get attention any way she can get it. These kinds of pictures are the ONLY ones that boys will comment on and so she's posting more and more. I can talk to her and get her to remove them, but when turmoil starts back up in her home again, she goes right back to posting them. If I were her parent, the first thing I would do is remove her access to the internet for a while. My in-laws are almost 80 years old so they don't know how to use parental internet monitoring tools. My mil said she allows T to have the tablet just so they don't have to listen to her complain. Everyone is in the wrong in one way or another in this situation. Then he calls me for advice, but when she doesn't like what I have to say, she cuts me down and says she doesn't agree with me. Well, then don't ask me because you have NEVER agreed with ANYTHING I've done or said. I don't know why she calls me...she doesn't even like me. :/

 

[Vaccine]

..They keep telling her that we don't want her and neither does anyone else.

What a terrible thing to say to someone. No wonder she seeks attention. I've read Gary Chapman's book "The 5 love languages" and highly recommend it to anyone. Not only did it impact my marriage but being able to identify people's love language helped me relate to my in-laws, parents, and everyone else. He wrote one specifically for teens.
http://www.5lovelanguages.com/resources/free-study-guides/

I hope this will help too:
"Rules without relationship breeds rebellion" Josh McDowell.
http://powertochange.com/experience/spiritual-growth/relationships-that-transform-9/

 

[Deborah13]

Gpa has NEVER been mean to Gma. I know that. He protects her. DH said once his oldest brother said "That's stupid" over something that his mom said and his dad grabbed his brother by the throat, threw him to the floor and when he got up, he had his brothers shirt in his hand.

DH went home drunk once and his dad chased him around the yard with a shovel trying to hit him in the head. I'm not saying it's ok to go home drunk (Dh was only 18), but I don't think I would try hitting my kid with a shovel!

Because gpa isn't violent with her doesn't change the fact that she has seen plenty of violence directed at her children. That certainly would cause me to fear, at least for them.
What happened when she stood up to him and tried to protect her children? Does anyone know? I'm not saying she should or had done this in front of any of the children but certainly she has spoken to him?
The more you speak about him the more signs of a true abuser is apparent, including pitting one child against the other. imo, I can easily see gdm being afraid.
Right now what I would suggest is that you speak to someone who is trained in the signs and symptoms of an abusive personality and the people who become co-dependents. You need professional help to understand the mechanics and dynamics of how these households work. A women's resource center is a good place to begin. There is a culture actually within the household that has formed before your grand girls generation. A philosophy that they live by. You need to understand it.
Gdm may desperately want to help these girls.

 

[Deborah13]

What a terrible thing to say to someone. No wonder she seeks attention. I've read Gary Chapman's book "The 5 love languages" and highly recommend it to anyone. Not only did it impact my marriage but being able to identify people's love language helped me relate to my in-laws, parents, and everyone else. He wrote one specifically for teens.
http://www.5lovelanguages.com/resources/free-study-guides/

I hope this will help too:
"Rules without relationship breeds rebellion" Josh McDowell.
http://powertochange.com/experience/spiritual-growth/relationships-that-transform-9/

"Rules without relationship breeds rebellion" is definitely so true. We even see it in people who cannot identify with the Lords rules in their Christian walk. They only see God through rules. Love is a spiritual relationship with God. Then come the ground rules.

 

[Deborah13]

I'll check into that. Thanks. They were supposed to come spend the day here today but my mil now says no. They are mad at me because T keeps saying she's moving in with us when she turns 18. They keep telling her that we don't want her and neither does anyone else. I told T that while I wish things weren't that way between she and my in-laws and while I wish their relationship could be repaired, that my home will be open to her as long as she doesn't take off again with any boys and as long as she passes her 11th grade year. I am just so sick of it all. It seems like everyone is lying and I don't know who to believe.

imo, you shouldn't be believing any of them. They are in a battle, each side saying what they need to to make their case. I would just suggest that you listen very carefully to what they say and how they say it. I would pray that the Lord give you the discernment to know the truth.

If T does come to stay with you don't forget that before she walks into your home, suitcase in hand, that she signs a contract with you and your dh that lays out the behaviors and rules that will be tolerated or not in Your home. You have your own children to protect and your marriage which always comes first.

 

[Lady Terra]

This is probably going to be long. DH's parents have been raising his sisters girls since they were infants (T is now 17 and A 13). DH's sister and her ex both gave up their rights to the kids. The dad comes to see them for a couple hours maybe once every 3 years. The mom goes over frequently, but she only acts like a mother when one of them is in trouble and she fusses at them. She also has another child that is 10 (came from when she cheated on her husband) and she has now sent THAT child to Florida to live with the father. She's never taken any responsibility for anything. Now a bit of background on DH's parents. They have provided for the kids, BUT they have had far from a normal upbringing in that house. DH's parents are in their mid 70's and have kept those kids under lock and key. They have never been allowed to do sports, never been allowed to have friends over, never been allowed to go to the youth groups at their church, etc. T has been wanting to get a job for over a year now and they refuse to let her. Now we are being told by T that DH's dad is beating her. I don't know what to believe, but DH says it wouldn't surprise him. My girls have said they've seen him haul off and smack her across the face more than once when they were over there (why I'm just now hearing this, I don't know). T is beginning to go BUCK WILD....which I knew would happen all along. There is SOOOO much more to the life they've been living. T is wanting to go to prom (she's in 11th grade) and they won't let her. She's not allowed to go anywhere but school unless DH's parents are there. The day before yesterday T had some boy that she met online pick her up from school. They finally found her and the police picked her up. I got a text from T yesterday morning (she has no phone...she's was using a friends) saying that DH's dad hit her and she wasn't going home. DSS was up there, but I guess they didn't believe anything T was saying because they made T get on the bus but not before T called me in hysterics begging me to come get her. I explained that I had no legal rights and that the cops would just show up and remove her from my home. Plus, who's to say that T is telling the truth. Regardless though, DH said that it was horrible living at home and he and all 4 of his siblings left as soon as they turned 18. Of course they all latched onto the first loser that came along or they went buck wild (DH was on the verge of becoming an alcoholic at that point). I don't know what to do. I've always told T that my home is open if she ever needs somewhere to go, but legally, that's not true. Do I get involved or do I stay out of if? T is going to end up dead if she doesn't get some normalcy and love in her life. I just don't know what to do. Do you have ANY advice?
Oh, and now DH's parents are talking about trying to get T put into the hospital. I don't know if that would make things better or worse. Does T need help? YES. She has been rejected by both parents and she has a LOT of anger. Not to mention she's 17 and has never had a normal teenage life. She turns 18 in August and is going to take off with the first boy that will take her. She will either end up pregnant or dead I'm afraid. DH's mom keeps calling me asking if I think she's mean and if I think she's done a bad job of raising them. I just respond with "You're doing the best you know how to do". I'm afraid if I get too involved that they will refuse to let us see the girls. They already think DH and I are "liberal" parents because we let our girls go places without us occasionally. Heck, DH's mom told me that I was a "bad mom" because I went on a weekend trip WITH MY MOM to my sisters one state away without my girls. I don't know what to do. DH and I would take T in, but DH's parents would never allow that to happen. As of now, T turns 18 in August and she plans on dropping out of school and moving in with any boy that will take her. There's not much time left to help her.

imo, you shouldn't be believing any of them. They are in a battle, each side saying what they need to to make their case. I would just suggest that you listen very carefully to what they say and how they say it. I would pray that the Lord give you the discernment to know the truth.

If T does come to stay with you don't forget that before she walks into your home, suitcase in hand, that she signs a contract with you and your dh that lays out the behaviors and rules that will be tolerated or not in Your home. You have your own children to protect and your marriage which always comes first.

I had to raise my 5 children and all but, one are now adults. They go through so many phases, I would stay out of it. If you do take responsibility it can sometimes harm you. If anything goes wrong the law holds you responsible. If children rebel. Most children don't realize how good they have it till it happens. If she moves in with the boy she will shortly find out it was not the best choice. It was hard for me to learn that my Five children had their own destiny to meet and free will. We made it through the wilderness somehow. My father used to say Cascara sacra. What ever will be will be. It has a lot of truth to it. The bible say there is a time to plant and a time to reap, a time to gather and a time to scatter. I had a new understanding at that point. God allows us to gather and scatter. It is natural for the children to rise up and leave. I have to sign off but, I will revisit later. I have tons of experience raising children. I have good results. I will try to help with advice.

 

[Nikki]

Oh, the amount of things that has happened since my first post is unbelievable. And now my in-laws are just imprisoning them even more. I fear that my niece will end up dead before long if things don't soon change. This isn't your typical teenage rebellion going on.