if we are representing God i prefer 1 girl ... instead of many houries.

[thesaintman]

can you say me it

 

[Who Me]

That is an islamic belief, not a Christian belief.

We are promised a relationship with God in heaven, not a sexual orgy.

 

[Niblo]

can you say me it

There is a notion that martyrs will be given seventy-two virgins in Heaven. It is a myth.

This notion – which is not found in the Qur’an – arises from a single ḥādīth in the collection of Jami' at-Tirmidhi; categorised by ʼaḥādīth scholars as ‘Ḍaʻīf’ (weak), due to its poor chain of narrators. In short, the ḥādīth is untrustworthy.

The Qur’an refers to Heaven as ‘al-janna’, meaning ‘the garden’. It is the home of the righteous; the home of Peace.

Professor M.A.S. Abdel Haleem writes of al-janna:

‘Full knowledge of the real nature of the rewards of the righteous, the Qur’an says, ‘is kept hidden’, it has not been given to any human. The same verbal form is used in Arabic to negate such knowledge – la ta‘lamu – applies to the present and to the future: fa lā ta‘lamu nafsun mā ‘ukhfiya lahum min qurrati a‘yūnin' (No soul knows what joy is laid up for them secretly as a reward for what they were doing.)

‘No discomfort or ill health will result from eating and drinking there. The drink is pure. It neither dulls their senses nor causes intoxication (37:47); it causes no headaches (56:19); it is ‘a cup which does not lead to any idle talk or sin’ (52:23).

‘In these pleasing surroundings stand ‘good, peaceful homes’ (9:72) with ‘lofty dwellings built for them, one above the other, graced with flowing streams’ (39:20). There are detailed descriptions of these goodly dwellings (e.g. 55:52–72; 56:15–34; and 88:13–16) – raised couches upholstered in brocade, goblets placed ready, cushions arranged and carpets outspread. We see the dwellers in pleasant company: ‘they will enter perpetual gardens, along with their righteous ancestors, spouses, and descendants’ (13:23; and 52:20–1) adorned in green silk. They sit on couches in a relaxed manner, engaged in pleasant conversation, recalling happy memories, absorbed in rejoicing; their faces shining, laughing and joyous (80:38–9).

‘There is no overt mention in the Qur’an of sex taking place between spouses in janna, although the relationship is lawful between spouses and the Qur’an does not shy away from mentioning it in the context of this world. The mutual love (‘uruban) between spouses in the garden (56:37–8) epitomises the most fulfilling aspect of the relationship between spouses as expressed in the Qur’an: Another of His signs is that He created spouses from among yourselves for you to live with in tranquillity: He ordained love and kindness between you (30:21).’

‘Part of God’s blessing on the righteous is that they will be joined in paradise with the righteous of their parents, spouses (azwāj) and offspring (13:23)…… Al-Janna is not the home of ‘believing men’ only but also of ‘believing women’. (‘Understanding the Qur’an – Themes and Style’; my emphasis).

Concerning the ḥūr:

Allāh (subḥānahu ūta'āla) says: ‘Those mindful of Allāh will be in a safe place amid Gardens and springs, clothed in silk and fine brocade, facing one another: and We shall marry them to fair ones having beautiful eyes.’ (Al-Dukhan: 52-54).

The text ‘We shall marry them to fair ones having beautiful eyes’ renders: ‘wazawwajnāhum biḥūrin ʿīnin.’

We find the same assurance in sūrah ‘Al-Tur: 20’: ‘And We shall marry them to fair ones having beautiful eyes’ (‘wazawwajnāhum biḥūrin ʿīnin’).

‘Biḥūrin’ comes from the word ‘ḥūr’; this being the plural of ‘ʾaḥwa’ (masculine), and ‘ḥawrāʾ’ (feminine); and applies, therefore, to both sexes.

In short, men will marry fair companions who are female; and women will marry fair companions who are male.

Much more than this: Those in Heaven will enjoy the Beatific Vision.

Sūrah Al-Qiyama tells us that on the Day of Judgement: ‘There will be radiant faces, looking towards their Lord.’ (ʾĀyāt 22 – 23).

Shaykh Seyyed Hossein Nasr writes:

‘Most commentators take the assertion that believers will be gazing upon their Lord as a reference to the literal vision of God in the Hereafter, attested in many aḥādīth, among them, “Truly, you all will see your Lord with your own eyes”.

‘In this regard, the Prophet is reported to have said, “When the people of the Garden enter the Garden, God says, ‘Do you desire that I increase you in anything?’ They say, ‘Didst Thou not brighten our faces? Didst Thou not admit us to the Garden and save us from the Fire?’” Then the Prophet said, “Then God removes the veil, and they are given nothing more beloved to them than gazing upon their Lord”’ (‘The Study Quran: A New Translation and Commentary’; my emphasis).

Peace.

 

[for_his_glory]

Niblo
I do understand that the ḥādīth is untrustworthy and that the Qur'an does refer to heaven as ‘al-janna’ meaning the garden as even I see the New Jerusalem being like the garden of Eden that God first created in all its beauty. Revelation 21; 22 describes the beauty of the New Jerusalem and those who will enter in through the gates. But, in Rev 21:8 also shows those who will never enter in as their part of God's judgement will be that of the lake of fire.

The real nature of the rewards of the righteous in heaven are not hidden, but found in the Bible.

CROWNS/REWARDS - Greek: (misthos) pay for service, good or bad have power, to separate from others, worthy

We are called of God to be partakers in Christ sharing in his ministry here on earth if we heed his calling. Our service is unto the Lord for the purpose that brings glory and honor to his name when a lost soul comes back to Gods grace. This is not done without rewards as our rewards are Spiritual laid up in heaven until we come to be with the Lord forever, but there are also rewards for those that are not of God, but of a Pharisee spirit and their reward will be eternal separation from God and their reward of damnation when Jesus returns and separates the wheat from the tares or the sheep from the goats.

There are five crowns (not literal crowns) we can obtain here on earth for the accomplishments of service we do unto the Lord. When our race here on earth is done and our time is over we will have the privilege of laying these crowns down before the feet of Jesus to honor him and to hear those words of grace that says “well done thou good and faithful servant”.

1. CROWN OF LIFE
Martyr's crown is the crown of life given to those who have endured all temptations, trials and tribulations here on earth and have never taken no thought of their own lives, but remained steadfast in the word of God living their lives in total surrender to Jesus.
(James 1:12; Revelation 2:10)

2. CROWN OF GLORY
Elder or Pastor Crown is given to those who hold the office of leadership over the members that make up the body of Christ. It is their leadership through the Holy Spirit that helps to teach us about God through his word. Theirs is the greatest judgment for what proceeds out of their mouth.
(1 Peter 5:1-5)

3. CROWN OF REJOICING
A crown of rejoicing is a soul winner’s crown. When we accept Gods commission to take his word out into the world through the power of the Holy Spirit working through us we all rejoice when one lost soul comes back to Gods grace. It’s like the story of the Shepard that had a flock of sheep and one of them strayed away. Even though he loved all his flock he rejoiced more for the lost one he found as now his whole flock was again all together. Imagine the rejoicing if all Gods lost children were found and brought back to Gods grace. What a day of rejoicing that would be. We rejoice in the goodness of God for all the blessings he pours out on us as he is faithful with his promises.
(1 Thessalonians 2:19-20; Philippians 4:1; Matthew 28:18-20; 18:11-13)

4. CROWN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS
A crown for those who love his appearing and will be given in that day to the Lord as a bride to a groom. We will see God in all his glory and his righteousness which is our strength when Jesus returns in the clouds to catch us up to meet him in the air and to be with the Lord forever. Gods’ righteousness is perfect in all his judgment on his people. With Gods righteousness we are perfected as we go through the refiner’s fire to be made pure and holy before his throne of grace. It doesn’t matter how we ourselves try to be righteous we can never be so on our own ability because our own righteousness is as a filthy rag before the Lord because we are all sinners, but those who have been Spiritually reborn or renewed of Gods Spirit to them they have been made righteous before the Father.
(2 Timothy 4:8; Isaiah 45:24; 61:10; Colossians 3:2-4)

5. CROWN INCORRUPTABLE
An incorruptible crown is a victor’s crown to those who have died to self and are subject to the guidance of the Holy Spirit leading them in all their ways and teach with the knowledge that only comes by the Holy Spirit who will teach us all things and bring those things back to our remembrance. None of us are perfect in our own ways, but are perfected by the Holy Spirit working in us and through us.
(1 Corinthians 9:25-27; 1 John 2:28-29; Revelation 4:10-11)

Matthew 22:23-32 the Sadducees asked Jesus a question about the resurrection of whose wives and husbands will be together in heaven. Notice vs. 30 as Jesus saying, For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

There is no marriage or need for any sexual relationships between a husband and wife in heaven nor is there any procreation between a husband and wife as there will be no need to repopulate the earth anymore.

 

[Niblo]

Niblo
I do understand that the ḥādīth is untrustworthy and that the Qur'an does refer to heaven as ‘al-janna’ meaning the garden as even I see the New Jerusalem being like the garden of Eden that God first created in all its beauty. Revelation 21; 22 describes the beauty of the New Jerusalem and those who will enter in through the gates. But, in Rev 21:8 also shows those who will never enter in as their part of God's judgement will be that of the lake of fire.

The real nature of the rewards of the righteous in heaven are not hidden, but found in the Bible.

CROWNS/REWARDS - Greek: (misthos) pay for service, good or bad have power, to separate from others, worthy

We are called of God to be partakers in Christ sharing in his ministry here on earth if we heed his calling. Our service is unto the Lord for the purpose that brings glory and honor to his name when a lost soul comes back to Gods grace. This is not done without rewards as our rewards are Spiritual laid up in heaven until we come to be with the Lord forever, but there are also rewards for those that are not of God, but of a Pharisee spirit and their reward will be eternal separation from God and their reward of damnation when Jesus returns and separates the wheat from the tares or the sheep from the goats.

There are five crowns (not literal crowns) we can obtain here on earth for the accomplishments of service we do unto the Lord. When our race here on earth is done and our time is over we will have the privilege of laying these crowns down before the feet of Jesus to honor him and to hear those words of grace that says “well done thou good and faithful servant”.

1. CROWN OF LIFE
Martyr's crown is the crown of life given to those who have endured all temptations, trials and tribulations here on earth and have never taken no thought of their own lives, but remained steadfast in the word of God living their lives in total surrender to Jesus.
(James 1:12; Revelation 2:10)

2. CROWN OF GLORY
Elder or Pastor Crown is given to those who hold the office of leadership over the members that make up the body of Christ. It is their leadership through the Holy Spirit that helps to teach us about God through his word. Theirs is the greatest judgment for what proceeds out of their mouth.
(1 Peter 5:1-5)

3. CROWN OF REJOICING
A crown of rejoicing is a soul winner’s crown. When we accept Gods commission to take his word out into the world through the power of the Holy Spirit working through us we all rejoice when one lost soul comes back to Gods grace. It’s like the story of the Shepard that had a flock of sheep and one of them strayed away. Even though he loved all his flock he rejoiced more for the lost one he found as now his whole flock was again all together. Imagine the rejoicing if all Gods lost children were found and brought back to Gods grace. What a day of rejoicing that would be. We rejoice in the goodness of God for all the blessings he pours out on us as he is faithful with his promises.
(1 Thessalonians 2:19-20; Philippians 4:1; Matthew 28:18-20; 18:11-13)

4. CROWN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS
A crown for those who love his appearing and will be given in that day to the Lord as a bride to a groom. We will see God in all his glory and his righteousness which is our strength when Jesus returns in the clouds to catch us up to meet him in the air and to be with the Lord forever. Gods’ righteousness is perfect in all his judgment on his people. With Gods righteousness we are perfected as we go through the refiner’s fire to be made pure and holy before his throne of grace. It doesn’t matter how we ourselves try to be righteous we can never be so on our own ability because our own righteousness is as a filthy rag before the Lord because we are all sinners, but those who have been Spiritually reborn or renewed of Gods Spirit to them they have been made righteous before the Father.
(2 Timothy 4:8; Isaiah 45:24; 61:10; Colossians 3:2-4)

5. CROWN INCORRUPTABLE
An incorruptible crown is a victor’s crown to those who have died to self and are subject to the guidance of the Holy Spirit leading them in all their ways and teach with the knowledge that only comes by the Holy Spirit who will teach us all things and bring those things back to our remembrance. None of us are perfect in our own ways, but are perfected by the Holy Spirit working in us and through us.
(1 Corinthians 9:25-27; 1 John 2:28-29; Revelation 4:10-11)

Matthew 22:23-32 the Sadducees asked Jesus a question about the resurrection of whose wives and husbands will be together in heaven. Notice vs. 30 as Jesus saying, For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

There is no marriage or need for any sexual relationships between a husband and wife in heaven nor is there any procreation between a husband and wife as there will be no need to repopulate the earth anymore.

Hi.

Thank you for that. My grandfather (see our other conversation) would be in complete agreement.

However, in order to clarify Islamic theology, it is necessary to use Islamic sources. I do not expect you to agree with these sources.... after all, you are not a Muslim.

Peace.

 

[D-D-W]

There is a notion that martyrs will be given seventy-two virgins in Heaven. It is a myth.

Correct. it is not 72 dark eyed virgins; it is 72 dark (aka angry) eyed Virginians.

 

[Niblo]

Correct. it is not 72 dark eyed virgins; it is 72 dark (aka angry) eyed Virginians.

Brilliant!

Ahhh, the Virginian…and Bonanza…two favourite American series in my youth. Am reminded of this:

I joined the Royal Air Force in 1965. One day, while doing trade training, I was walking back to my barracks, when an American Airforce Officer – older that I, by the look of him – happened to be walking toward me.

Under those circumstances, a non-Commonwealth officer was not entitled to be saluted; and so I could easily have walked on, without so much as a nod. However, he was a guest in my country, and so I gave a textbook salute. It was a corker!

He started with surprise, and beckoned me to stop. And then his face simply lit up, with a grin that made him glow. And then it came: ‘Gee….…..thanks!!’

I walked away about six inches above the ground, in sheer joy.

I often wonder was became of this man; how his career developed; how his life unfolded. I like to image him, retired now, sitting on a porch with his family – his wife, kids and grandkids – happy and at peace. And I wonder if he remembered the young British Airman who gave him passing honours all those year ago. I like to think he did. Bless him.

Peace.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi.

Thank you for that. My grandfather (see our other conversation) would be in complete agreement.

However, in order to clarify Islamic theology, it is necessary to use Islamic sources. I do not expect you to agree with these sources.... after all, you are not a Muslim.

Peace.

Islamic sources can be as bad as Christian sources depending what has been written by ones own theology. I have given you and many others the comparison between Mohammed and Jesus by using both the Quran and the Bible and will just let it there. What makes sense to our own logic does not always make it become truth. Just keep an opened mind as you first started out reading the Bible, but have allowed yourself to be swayed from it.

You have a great day my friend

 

[Niblo]

Islamic sources can be as bad as Christian sources depending what has been written by ones own theology. I have given you and many others the comparison between Mohammed and Jesus by using both the Quran and the Bible and will just let it there. What makes sense to our own logic does not always make it become truth. Just keep an opened mind as you first started out reading the Bible, but have allowed yourself to be swayed from it.

You have a great day my friend

Thank you. Have a great day thisen