Featherbop
Member
Nope.
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Do you believe that the human soul is immortal and non-matter?
nikolai_42 said:Serapha's close...but I think he fails to complete his look at the scriptures. The Old Testament seems to distinguish between soul and spirit as well as the New Testament. And while one may have their soul preserved, it is inherently mortal. As it says in Ezekiel AND Isaiah:
The soul that sinneth, it shall die.
And in Ecclesiastes...
The spirit returns to God who gave it.
Paul, in one of his letters to the Thessalonians does encourage them by praying that their spirit, soul and body be preserved blameless. As serapha pointed out, Hebrews speaks of the division between soul and spirit as being one that is only discernible by the Spirit of God. The soul of man is emotional, whereas the spirit given to man is what is necessary to communicate with God. For God is spirit, and spirit communicates with spirit. That's one reason we must worship God in spirit - because that is what He is.
The spirit returns to God who gave it.
The soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Eze 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Eze 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Quath said:The problem with the soul or spirit is that we behave in a materialistic fashion. For example, Mary Jackson wasraised a devout baptist and was valedictorian of her high school. She went to an Ivy League university to become a pediatrician. Her first two years, she made deans list.
However, in her junior year, she started to get F's and D's. She started sleeping around with men she met at bars. She ended up getting pneumonia and went to see a doctor. The doctor revealed that she had AIDS. She said she could not understand why she was sleeping around, but she couldn't help herself.
Since she had been missing her periods and was not pregnant, the doctor referred her to a neurologist. He noticed she had lost her long term goals, was short tempered, easily frustrated and apt to sleep around.
So she was diagnosed with environmental dependency syndrome. Basically, her environment prompted her to do stuff. Give her a pen and paper and she just writes her name. Giver her a comb and she will brush her hair. An MRI scan showed a brain tumor. The tumor was removed and she went back to her old self.
So our personality is materialistic. Grow a tumor in the right spot and you can change from a good church going lady to a dirty slut. A 40-year old schoolteacher turned into a pedophile until his tumor was removed.
So does the soul reflect the body or the body reflect the soul? If the soul reflects the body, then it can be harmed by physical means. Or in other wordsm the soul is physical. If the body reflects the soul, then does the soul get tumors that the body also gets?
This brings about hard theological questions. If Mary had died when she had the tumor and had turned away from God, should she have gone to hell? Can a tumor make you lose God or be unable to find him?
There are amy, many other problems with the concept of a soul. Basically, there is no purpose for a soul except to be a recorder (like a VHS tape or CD). Everything else has been shown to be physical.
Quath
Henry said:nikolai_42
May I ask what you think it means to die? Is it to stop existing alltogether, or is it a state of existance?
I believe that death, the second death is the eternal separation from God. Not none existance.
Quath
You totally have the wrong view point all together there guy. Man are off>>> You are the problem not the concept but you lack of ability to grasp it, but then again you are unregerate you do not have what it takes to know the things of God.
Quath said:The problem with the soul or spirit is that we behave in a materialistic fashion. For example, Mary Jackson wasraised a devout baptist and was valedictorian of her high school. She went to an Ivy League university to become a pediatrician. Her first two years, she made deans list.
...There are amy, many other problems with the concept of a soul. Basically, there is no purpose for a soul except to be a recorder (like a VHS tape or CD). Everything else has been shown to be physical.
Quath
The soul is the will, the intellect, emotions, thoughts, decision-making ability, or discernment.
The spirit may be recognized as the life principle bestowed on man by God, the soul as the resulting life constituted in the individual, the body being the material organism animated by soul and spirit.
So does the soul reflect the body or the body reflect the soul? If the soul reflects the body, then it can be harmed by physical means. Or in other wordsm the soul is physical. If the body reflects the soul, then does the soul get tumors that the body also gets?
our personality is materialistic.
If Mary had died when she had the tumor and had turned away from God, should she have gone to hell? Can a tumor make you lose God or be unable to find him?
Featherbop
You hit a very good point there, quath. If there is an immortal soul, that is non-matter, and seperate from the physical body, and/or independant from it, then why do things like this happen?
i had to change my veiw of a soul seperate from the body, and then I had to change to not a supernatural soul altogether. If a supernatural soul does exist, then since it has (supposedly) a physical connection(brain), then there would be evidence of its existance. It doesn't work to say: "oh well, we have the bilbie it tells us that we are an immortal soul."
Evidence tells us that this is a false belief. Some people seem to think if you don't believe in the soul, thne you aren't a christian, and don't believe in God or something. I'm sure there are many christians that don't believe in the human soul as most other cfhristians do, some people will actually consider evidence before having a belief. I'm one of them.
But anyway quath, I'm glad you brought it up. Its a good point, and we all mustn't be afraid to adress and consider these things.
_____
I think anyone who believes in a supernatural, non-matter, independant of body, soul, needs to look at the evidence and seriously reconsider that belief.
If a supernatural soul does exist, then since it has (supposedly) a physical connection(brain), then there would be evidence of its existance.
Evidence tells us that this is a false belief.
Some people seem to think if you don't believe in the soul, thne you aren't a christian, and don't believe in God or something. I'm sure there are many christians that don't believe in the human soul as most other cfhristians do, some people will actually consider evidence before having a belief. I'm one of them.
It doesn't work to say: "oh well, we have the bilbie it tells us that we are an immortal soul."
Evidence tells us that this is a false belief.
Henry said:Featherbop
You are joking right, quath is a unregerated none beleiver, his argument has no vality with me what so ever, he simple does not know what he is talking, and has no right to opinions about things he can not understand.
In short I could care less what Quath thinks.
And by the way, the bible says that quath does not know the things of God, not me. I merley concure with the word.
1 Corinthians 2:14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Featherbop said:Seraphra: If humans do have an immortal, supernatural soul, then its closest connection is the brain.
We know that everything that makes up what and who a person is, is dependant upon the brain.
If the soul has nothing to do with the brain, then you are making no sense. We know for a fact that who and what people are is brain. It is the soul of man. It is one of God's most wonderful creations. Amazing in its complexity. The soul is not really the brain, I should say, but is dependant for existance upon it. It is unseperatable.
I believe in the soul. I just have a veiw of it that agrees with the evidence of its existance. You have to give me credible evidence to change my view. I'm waiting. I am very patient.
We know for a fact that who and what people are is brain.
We know that everything that makes up what and who a person is, is dependant upon the brain.
You have to give me credible evidence to change my view.
Vic said:And the references to your post would be?...
What evidence do you need to see to know that the soul and brain are different from eachother?
I have a lot of time. I will be awaiting your response.