Is Christianity a culture?

[for_his_glory]

Here lies my problem with Christianity being called an institutionalized religion as it is not denominational or nondenominational, but that of the assembling with Christ being the center of the assembly. I believe we already have State Churches as in Catholic, Protestant and many other self claimed religions that we have the freedom to choose from, but will boil down to a one world religion with the New World Order that even now is being established, but that's another topic. It's when a Church is involved with the IRS and a 501 for tax purposes that makes a religious establishment that of a legal purpose, but only if they fall under the 14 point standard the IRS has set up for Religious institutions.

1. a distinct legal existence
2. a recognized creed/form of worship
3. a definite and distinct ecclesiastical government.
4. a formal code of doctrine and discipline
5. a distinct religious history
6. a membership not associated with another church/denomination
7. an organization of ordained ministers
8. ordained ministers selected after completing prescribed studies
9. a literature of its own
10. established places of worship
11. regular congregations
12. regular religious services
13. schools for religious instruction of the young, and
14. schools for the preparation of ministers

 

[jasonc]

Here lies my problem with Christianity being called an institutionalized religion as it is not denominational or nondenominational, but that of the assembling with Christ being the center of the assembly. I believe we already have State Churches as in Catholic, Protestant and many other self claimed religions that we have the freedom to choose from, but will boil down to a one world religion with the New World Order that even now is being established, but that's another topic. It's when a Church is involved with the IRS and a 501 for tax purposes that makes a religious establishment that of a legal purpose, but only if they fall under the 14 point standard the IRS has set up for Religious institutions.

1. a distinct legal existence
2. a recognized creed/form of worship
3. a definite and distinct ecclesiastical government.
4. a formal code of doctrine and discipline
5. a distinct religious history
6. a membership not associated with another church/denomination
7. an organization of ordained ministers
8. ordained ministers selected after completing prescribed studies
9. a literature of its own
10. established places of worship
11. regular congregations
12. regular religious services
13. schools for religious instruction of the young, and
14. schools for the preparation of ministers

while I understand that but the first amendment was written when and when is the amendment that makes for the irs or its law put into code? over 100 years apart.

 

[Edward]

Now, very loosely and lightly speaking my brothers and sisters...Christianity is moreso a government type of organization than it is a religion, lol. But try to tell our government that?! Boy, the war machine would be rolling.

 

[for_his_glory]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or impeding the practice thereof.

Many established religions may call themselves Christian, but by name only according to their doctrines and traditional teachings. Religion is established (titled/given a name, organized and governed), but the question is, who organizes it and who governs it? God or man? The only time religion gets involved with the State is when it falls into the 501 category of the IRS which was established in 1954. Freedom of religion falls into the first amendment as being an establishment. Is Christianity an establishment or a personal relationship with Christ? Does one deem their religion Christian just because they have the name of God or Christ in their title? With that said I do not see Christianity being a culture because it was a cultural religion that beat and nailed Christ to a cross.

The early part of the 20th century saw many changes in how the government deals with business and nonprofit organizations. From 1913 to 1918 the Congress passed laws regulating taxes and establishing tax-exempt status for philanthropic organizations. In the Revenue Act of 1918, tax deductions for charitable bequests were established. This was important as it gave incentive to the wealthy to donate to charity.

The Revenue Act of 1954 established the tax codes as we know them today. Section 501(c) of the Internal Revenue Code stated that in order to enjoy tax-exempt status a nonprofit institution must be organized and operated purely for nonprofit reasons with none of its earnings going to any member of the organization. The law under Section 170 provided for tax-deductible contributions to a 501(c) organization.

Since the Revenue Act of 1943, all nonprofit organizations must file a Form 990 declaring their earnings and disbursements. All 501(c)(3) organizations must report sources of income and all assets and liabilities. The code was revised later requiring all 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations make their Form 990 data available to the public.

 

[jasonc]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or impeding the practice thereof.

Many established religions may call themselves Christian, but by name only according to their doctrines and traditional teachings. Religion is established (titled/given a name, organized and governed), but the question is, who organizes it and who governs it? God or man? The only time religion gets involved with the State is when it falls into the 501 category of the IRS which was established in 1954. Freedom of religion falls into the first amendment as being an establishment. Is Christianity an establishment or a personal relationship with Christ? Does one deem their religion Christian just because they have the name of God or Christ in their title? With that said I do not see Christianity being a culture because it was a cultural religion that beat and nailed Christ to a cross.

The early part of the 20th century saw many changes in how the government deals with business and nonprofit organizations. From 1913 to 1918 the Congress passed laws regulating taxes and establishing tax-exempt status for philanthropic organizations. In the Revenue Act of 1918, tax deductions for charitable bequests were established. This was important as it gave incentive to the wealthy to donate to charity.

The Revenue Act of 1954 established the tax codes as we know them today. Section 501(c) of the Internal Revenue Code stated that in order to enjoy tax-exempt status a nonprofit institution must be organized and operated purely for nonprofit reasons with none of its earnings going to any member of the organization. The law under Section 170 provided for tax-deductible contributions to a 501(c) organization.

Since the Revenue Act of 1943, all nonprofit organizations must file a Form 990 declaring their earnings and disbursements. All 501(c)(3) organizations must report sources of income and all assets and liabilities. The code was revised later requiring all 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations make their Form 990 data available to the public.

any church must have some leadership and government.

 

[for_his_glory]

exactly and what I am saying there is do all go by the leadership and government of God or of man!

 

[jasonc]

exactly and what I am saying there is do all go by the leadership and government of God or of man!

again. a church must have a group of men to delegate tasks. sorry the apostles had their councils . acts 15 is the first. im not by any means endorsing the catholic idea here but we cant just have men you haven't proper doctrine nor ability to teach. some have to say. no and check that. even this site has a sof and also leadership. the admins have the final say over the moderators. I know. I was a mod here.

 

[for_his_glory]

again. a church must have a group of men to delegate tasks. sorry the apostles had their councils . acts 15 is the first. im not by any means endorsing the catholic idea here but we cant just have men you haven't proper doctrine nor ability to teach. some have to say. no and check that. even this site has a sof and also leadership. the admins have the final say over the moderators. I know. I was a mod here.

Every Church has a board of directors who set up the bi-laws and doctrines of faith that the Church follows (according to the word of God). All task must be carefully prayed about first before they are carried out as God gives the direction and appointments those who are ready to take on any task. I remember when I was Vice President of our board of directors and we told everyone who were taking on the various works of the Church to pray first and seek Gods direction before they decided to take on any task. Delegation was done, but not without prayer first so the Church as a whole would remain in Gods will.

 

[Edward]

Every Church has a board of directors who set up the bi-laws and doctrines of faith that the Church follows (according to the word of God). All task must be carefully prayed about first before they are carried out as God gives the direction and appointments those who are ready to take on any task. I remember when I was Vice President of our board of directors and we told everyone who were taking on the various works of the Church to pray first and seek Gods direction before they decided to take on any task. Delegation was done, but not without prayer first so the Church as a whole would remain in Gods will.

That's kinda sorta what I was just about to say in response to your last post. Churches have to follow both God and mans governing. With God being first through prayer in all things, and to follow mans laws and directives which is scriptural also. The elders of the church, which probably meant something a little different in old times than nowadays. Elders of the Church are really supposed to be the most mature Christians there, though in todays world it may just mean who's got the title of president or pastor or whatever.

 

[jasonc]

Every Church has a board of directors who set up the bi-laws and doctrines of faith that the Church follows (according to the word of God). All task must be carefully prayed about first before they are carried out as God gives the direction and appointments those who are ready to take on any task. I remember when I was Vice President of our board of directors and we told everyone who were taking on the various works of the Church to pray first and seek Gods direction before they decided to take on any task. Delegation was done, but not without prayer first so the Church as a whole would remain in Gods will.

yet lets be real. its not perfect and also prone to corruption, and politics. I have been involved with that junk to see and also used by the church. I was robbed of lawful wages. the government forced the church to pay me the right wages and also others.

 

[th1b.taylor]

We have a Leadership Team, Pastor, Deacons, Elders and Teachers, The Pastor is a paid position, just as scripture indicates it should be, and the others are appointed to volunteers seeking the position, as is right. The Pastor does not and never will have the time to earn a living wage for his family. The other positions? Whose are you and who do you serve. I was waist deep in Church government, a position I will never fill on this earth again, and I never earned a penny for travel pay nor for the 'away' lodging and eats. Those were from my pocket and devoted to my LORD for the service I was privileged to render to my LORD.

I have no idea the rewards or the lack there of to the folks that feel the Church owes them but I do know my wage is waiting for me on the other side of this life. Praise God!

 

[for_his_glory]

yet lets be real. its not perfect and also prone to corruption, and politics. I have been involved with that junk to see and also used by the church. I was robbed of lawful wages. the government forced the church to pay me the right wages and also others.

Unless you were the Pastor why do you think you should have earned a wage from the Church. Were you employed by the Church meeting your financial needs? Churches are only imperfect, prone to corruption and politics if they are not walking in Gods will for His Church. I've held various positions in the Church from teaching from the pulpit at times and in the prisons plus traveling for the purpose of ministering the word of God in other places, but it was all volunteering and like Bill said, my rewards are stored in Heaven for the things I do for God here on earth. If a Church decides to have a full time working staff and have the funding to pay them then there is nothing wrong with that as allotments are set aside apart for that purpose as long as it doesn't interrupt that of helps being done first. It's when a Church pays a full time staff that they fall into a 501 government category. What the Pastor gets paid is also taxed for it is income which is a standard set by the government (IRS).

 

[for_his_glory]

That's kinda sorta what I was just about to say in response to your last post. Churches have to follow both God and mans governing. With God being first through prayer in all things, and to follow mans laws and directives which is scriptural also. The elders of the church, which probably meant something a little different in old times than nowadays. Elders of the Church are really supposed to be the most mature Christians there, though in todays world it may just mean who's got the title of president or pastor or whatever.

We had a set standard that in the last Church I attended that whoever held any positions within the functions of the Church had to first be a Spiritually born again by that of John 3:3-7 and Romans 10:9,10 and be seasoned in the word of God. Titles were only given by name only for the governing of the Church, but it was God working in us and through us that we always remained prayerfully in His will and followed Gods guidance for what He wanted His Church to be.

 

[jasonc]

Unless you were the Pastor why do you think you should have earned a wage from the Church. Were you employed by the Church meeting your financial needs? Churches are only imperfect, prone to corruption and politics if they are not walking in Gods will for His Church. I've held various positions in the Church from teaching from the pulpit at times and in the prisons plus traveling for the purpose of ministering the word of God in other places, but it was all volunteering and like Bill said, my rewards are stored in Heaven for the things I do for God here on earth. If a Church decides to have a full time working staff and have the funding to pay them then there is nothing wrong with that as allotments are set aside apart for that purpose as long as it doesn't interrupt that of helps being done first. It's when a Church pays a full time staff that they fall into a 501 government category. What the Pastor gets paid is also taxed for it is income which is a standard set by the government (IRS).

they have jobs, and they hired me as such. the pastors income isn't set by the state ,but if its labor laws such as overtime. churches also own property.i can post the rental homes here by the large. churches do have full time staff with their other things. I understand that argument.but I also know that even if it were to do that, it would be taxed as normal as it has NO exemptions thus it would cost more. if that is to be for freedom of speech then so be it but the government can, not that it should, tax any of that. that is what the idea of the exemption is for.

the problem here, as I local am seeing that argument is that if the government is to be that small. for me, beaches? public? own one or don't go. it will come to that. we have a council member that would do that to the dog park for a rowing club. so it would have to pay for the lease and no free dog park which the locals don't mind to pay for. it doesn't cost much for them. pennies. phht. I will pay that.

 

[for_his_glory]

If they hired you with the stipulation you would get paid then yes, you have every right to expect to be paid. The Church I use to attend, the board set up a percentage of the offerings that the Pastor would be paid out of. It was up to the Pastor to pay taxes on that for it is his income. We rented the building so no tax there. The Church was tax exempt because no other position within the Church was a paid one, but only prayerfully volunteered. We were exempt from the 501 as we did not meet their guidelines for having to pay taxes. Labor laws would only come into effect if you were hired as a full time employee who had to pay taxes on your income. If you worked over that of the hours you were hired for pay then overtime pay does need to be paid.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Remember Jesus, the Money Changers and the Sellers of Animals in the Temple? The true Church is not a business and the church being described here is a business church with the small c. These are sometimes, I suspect, void of believers.

To avoid Satan's Broad Brush, let me explain. As oft spoken of by myself, the American Church Universal has by survey been demonstrated to consist of less than 2% believers and over 98% Members Only by Membership Rolls.

LORD, forgive my stupidity but using Human Logic I find it reasonable to say that these numbers, in individual Church Families, can and likely do, fluctuate wildly. That being true I have observed, as far as such is possible, that people seeking a closer relationship with God tend to be drawn into the Smaller Church as defined by less the 3 or 400 members. I love the fellowship in my Church Family of just under 300 members, hugh for a Rural Assembly, because we are a Family Unit driven by the Holy Spirit and Worship of the One God, the Trinity.

During my search for where the Spirit was moving me and my family we have attended a few churches of the large definition, a couple with several thousand members. The atmosphere in these Assemblies was frigid but by observation I saw several warm Groups there, Clicks.

This is the data I operate from and is not everyone's basis nor, likely, must it be.

 

[for_his_glory]

Mega churches, mega money, mega government involvement. Gods will for the church or mans control of the church!!!

 

[th1b.taylor]

Mega churches, mega money, mega government involvement. Gods will for the church or mans control of the church!!!

My feelings are the same. The government, any of them today would toss our young Pastor in the Hoose-Cow and loose the key. But we have no paid staff and we are to small to notice by normal means, pre NSA.

 

[jasonc]

Mega churches, mega money, mega government involvement. Gods will for the church or mans control of the church!!!

small churches or large if god built, then he will be getting the glory. do you really think that in a poor black town that much of the poor would be helped by themselves? unless god lead it?
it is A CRIME in my state to impersonate a veteran or member of the military in order to get funds to help them. we have so many phonies and annoying soliticators that took money and didn't use it for the right thing that the law was passed. churches they wouldn't do that?

 

[for_his_glory]

small churches or large if god built, then he will be getting the glory. do you really think that in a poor black town that much of the poor would be helped by themselves? unless god lead it?
it is A CRIME in my state to impersonate a veteran or member of the military in order to get funds to help them. we have so many phonies and annoying soliticators that took money and didn't use it for the right thing that the law was passed. churches they wouldn't do that?

In my area which is a depressed area where blue collar jobs are far and in between I see many that have not much, but yet give to help others. Look at the women who gave her last in scripture. God honored her more than those who had much, but gave so little. God doesn't always lead one to give to another as many that are poor and help others have never even heard the Gospel preached to them for they refuse to hear, but they share the little they do have. We had to close the doors of the last Church I attended for lack of funds as we rented a place and could not afford the rent or utilities anymore. Does that mean God abandoned us in our hour of need, no, we started a small house Bible study lead by our Pastor, but unfortunately with him having to go back to work and with others work schedules we ended the Bible study, but we still help those in need.