Is Dispensationalism Darwinism?

[evenifigoalone]

Anyway, I have to go to bed now.

But I have never heard if this before. And I used to attend a Bible study by a Messianic Jewish family. They believed in following the OT laws and seemed to have different beliefs regarding the end times. But if I recall they seemed to have the same views as I was taught regarding sacrifices and their role.

 

[evenifigoalone]

That explanation makes no sense, to be perfectly honest. Kill an animal to be close to God? Huh???? That can't be all there is to it.
Is this a standard belief among Messianic Jews?

What does everyone else here have to say in regard to this?

Ryan errs in that the modern jews believe that one could atone with God with either, the animals blood , prayer if the temple and priests weren't faitful(diaspora). the way to do torah in the later was the tzaddik.but he is right that the word sacrifice means to draw near. its like us in church when we approach God we cleanse ourselves by repenting then worshipping. the temple altar had to be purged of sins of the priests and the alter purified as well.

But that still seems to suggest that it had a role in salvation.

What is your general view regarding the method of salvation after Christ versus before Christ? I know you're more knowledgeable about this stuff than I am.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Well, sleep is eluding me at the moment. xD

Just wanted to point out one thing that just occurred to me:
The Bible itself seems to make a clear connection between Christ and the sacrifices of the OT.
There are numerous verses, if I recall, that refer to Jesus as "the lamb of God", and there are also numerous verses about Jesus' blood being atonement for sins. Like the blood of sacrificed animals.

The Bible backs itself and so no doctrine should be based on one verse alone. But this isn't just one verse.


Anyway I get the idea you're getting a little tired of debate, so in respect of that maybe I should just call it quits here? Debate does get pretty tiring.

 

[JLB]

Well, sleep is eluding me at the moment. xD

Just wanted to point out one thing that just occurred to me:
The Bible itself seems to make a clear connection between Christ and the sacrifices of the OT.
There are numerous verses, if I recall, that refer to Jesus as "the lamb of God", and there are also numerous verses about Jesus' blood being atonement for sins. Like the blood of sacrificed animals.

The Bible backs itself and so no doctrine should be based on one verse alone. But this isn't just one verse.


Anyway I get the idea you're getting a little tired of debate, so in respect of that maybe I should just call it quits here? Debate does get pretty tiring.

44 Then He said to them, "These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me."

All the animal sacrifices were a shadow of what Jesus' sacrifice on the cross would fulfill.

He is our Passover Lamb.

He is our High Priest [Aaron].

He is our Prophet [Moses]

He is our King [David]

1 To the Chief Musician. Set to 'The Deer of the Dawn.' A Psalm of David. My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me? Why are You so far from helping Me, And from the words of My groaning?Psalm 22:1

46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" that is, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?" Matthew 27:46


18 They divide My garments among them, And for My clothing they cast lots. Psalm 22:18

35 Then they crucified Him, and divided His garments, casting lots, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet: "They divided My garments among them, And for My clothing they cast lots." Matthew 27:35


7 All those who see Me ridicule Me; They shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying, 8 "He trusted in the Lord, let Him rescue Him; Let Him deliver Him, since He delights in Him!" Psalm 22:7-8

39 And those who passed by blasphemed Him, wagging their heads 43 He trusted in God; let Him deliver Him now if He will have Him; for He said, 'I am the Son of God.' " Matthew 27:39



All the Law and Prophets and Psalms are a prophetic type or shadow of Jesus Christ.


JLB

 

[Ryan]

[MENTION=89910]questdriven[/MENTION] Those are many questions you have about the sacrifices in the temple and tabernacle. When we say Jesus was the one and complete sacrifice, how do we know what that means unless we understand the sacrificial system? So I will be at that other thread, and no, [MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION] doesn't speak for me and what I believe either.

 

[Ryan]

Well, sleep is eluding me at the moment. xD

Just wanted to point out one thing that just occurred to me:
The Bible itself seems to make a clear connection between Christ and the sacrifices of the OT.
There are numerous verses, if I recall, that refer to Jesus as "the lamb of God", and there are also numerous verses about Jesus' blood being atonement for sins. Like the blood of sacrificed animals.

The Bible backs itself and so no doctrine should be based on one verse alone. But this isn't just one verse.


Anyway I get the idea you're getting a little tired of debate, so in respect of that maybe I should just call it quits here? Debate does get pretty tiring.

44 Then He said to them, "These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me."

Hmmm...last time I checked Yom Teruah, Yom Kippur and Succot still have to be fulfilled. So that is not fulfilled as far as I am concerned. If you knew what the Feast days are and what they stood for you might have a different opinion. But that is to Jewish, right? We have evolved into our own special holidays and days, and the appendages of the Feasts have fallen off. If you really want to begin to understand prophecy, get to the days when stuff is going to happen on those days.

 

[reba]

Some one 'spane' to me that Yom kippur , the day of atonement was not the Cross ?
What am I missing?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Some one 'spane' to me that Yom kippur , the day of atonement was not the Cross ?
What am I missing?

\
Yom Kippur is temporary, it has to be done every year.
The cross is permanent, done once for all forever.

 

[reba]

isn't the Cross the fulfillment of Yom Kippur to a follower of Jesus...

 

[JLB]

isn't the Cross the fulfillment of Yom Kippur to a follower of Jesus...

Yes it is,

But to those that teach you must show your obedience to God by keeping the Law of Moses, then observing feast days is mandatory.

Not to be saved, mind you, just if you want to be obedient to God.

:ounno


JLB

 

[Eventide]

Once again, I think that it is perfectly normal for a Jew (Israelite) to have the desire to fulfill the Law simply because it's in their tradition of doing exactly that for generation after generation... and IMO it's no different than a Christian in Christ desiring to be obedient in all things.

The problem of course is when we start demanding that men follow the Law as we desire to follow it.

Also, all of these things are played out perfectly so to speak in the Book of Acts, just as they continue to be even today.

 

[Eventide]

Dispensationalism Darwinism?

Once again, the root (pun intended) of the problem here is simply not following along in the bible with respect to what happened to nation of Israel in the days of The Lord Jesus Christ on earth...

The Apostle Peter preaches to the Israelites on that first Pentecost following the miraculous life, death, burial, resurrection, and ascension of that man.. Jesus of Nazareth.

How that they asked for a murderer and a thief to be released to them, even when Pilate was ready to let Jesus go....

And yet the Lords grace was still beyond belief in that gospel call going out to all the world, beginning right there in Jerusalem.

And what happened...?

Acts tells us precisely what happened...

That nation continued in its rejection of Jesus of Nazareth and they were ultimately CUT OFF from Christ... And Paul was raised up to take the gospel to the Gentiles...

And that once again is the mystery... Israel's blindness until...

The fullness of the Gentiles come in..

IMO it's not that complicated, but many refuse to believe that Israel is presently cut off and their house left desolate... Until that Day...

The Day of The Lord, the Day of Jesus Christ... Which shall come as a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

 

[JLB]

Re: Dispensationalism Darwinism?

he Day of The Lord, the Day of Jesus Christ... Which shall come as a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

But not for you brother, for you are not in the darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. [Blessing intended]


JLB

 

[evenifigoalone]

Im not really staying at home at the moment, but while I had to stop here to pick something up I just wanted to apologize for my last post. It was not edifying, encouraging, or uplifting. I'll go delete it.

We all do our best to interpret the Bible the correct way, and there are naturally going to be some differences of opinion. I do my best to respect that, but it's just so easy to get defensive sometimes.

 

[jasoncran]

That explanation makes no sense, to be perfectly honest. Kill an animal to be close to God? Huh???? That can't be all there is to it.
Is this a standard belief among Messianic Jews?

What does everyone else here have to say in regard to this?

Ryan errs in that the modern jews believe that one could atone with God with either, the animals blood , prayer if the temple and priests weren't faitful(diaspora). the way to do torah in the later was the tzaddik.but he is right that the word sacrifice means to draw near. its like us in church when we approach God we cleanse ourselves by repenting then worshipping. the temple altar had to be purged of sins of the priests and the alter purified as well.

But that still seems to suggest that it had a role in salvation.

What is your general view regarding the method of salvation after Christ versus before Christ? I know you're more knowledgeable about this stuff than I am.

the torah was the means by which we know that we have offended or please god. its like this. if i make my wife angry and I LOVE her and i will try to correct that problem with first admission of guilt, and changing of behavior.