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Is futurism dying

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Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

Jesus is Messiah the Prince who is to come of Daniel...

Then you are labeling Him "the abomination of desolation" of Daniel 9:27.


Now you know why so many people label Full Preterism as Heresy.


JLB
 
[MENTION=94590]Rev33[/MENTION] do you believe Jesus is returning for His Church/bride/people ?

I believe there will be a future to us consummation of the cosmos that is spoken of in the Creeds.
I do not Believe scripture contains any teaching on the timing and nature of that event however.
 
Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

Jesus is Messiah the Prince who is to come of Daniel...

Then you are labeling Him "the abomination of desolation" of Daniel 9:27.JLB


Nope... The text is clear... The one who confirms the covenant (which was Jesus) is not the same person as "the one who makes desolate"

Two completely different individuals.

Nice try though.
 
Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

10 The Lord has made bare His holy arm In the eyes of all the nations; And all the ends of the earth shall see The salvation of our God. Isaiah 52:10


Had the Lord become a flesh and blood Man when this prophecy was given?


JLB


The Text is Clear. Gods ARM was made visible to EVERY EYE.
Do you disagree?

I disagree.

The Lord was a Spirit at that time.


Since then He became flesh and has a glorified natural body that can eat, yet walk through walls. That can been seen by Humans.


JLB

Ok, then what was the nature of Gods Holy Arm, and How did EVERY EYE SEE IT?
 
There's such freedom in full preterism. The entire bible is allegorical and we can sort it all out to what makes us comfortable. What in the world ever happened to comprehension? I'll stick to my futurism thanks. I don't need to go outside to see Him, He'll come for me. ;)

I pray to the Lord to not be deceived, and I'm not deceived today. Praise the Lord!

Futurists allegorize all the time Edward.

"Shortly, soon, about to come, will not delay, Very near, etc etc".... Futurists allegorize ALL Literal time statements when it concerns the coming of the Lord to make you all "comfortable".

Even Jesus affirms the preterist understanding that "Near" is not to be treated allegorically:

Matt 24:32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!

In case there is any doubt, Jesus is clear here, Near means NEAR in Human understanding... it is not some meaningless allegory for "far" or "near in Gods Time" as the Futurist MUST have it.
ALL of the time statements MUST be treated as allegorical and meaningless by the Futurist, so you probably shouldn't call the kettle black, Mr Pot.

You are no literalist.
 
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How did i end up in this forum Preterism is another one of those doctrines of D _ _ _ _ S another sign of the times those last day signs. Devil never stops trying to destroy a persons hope does he.

tob


And When did those last days begin ToB?
 
Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

Since then He became flesh and has a glorified natural body that can eat, yet walk through walls. That can been seen by Humans.

Interesting... Before the crucifixion, well before His natural Body was glorified at the ascencion, He could eat, yet Walk on Water and pass through hostile crowds untouched.

What's the difference?
 
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Taking Rev 12 and saying that has come to past and rev 1-3 saying it has come to past is not partial preterism.


Well, Claiming Revelation 1-3 was NOT meant FOR those 7, Actual 1st Century Churches and has not come to pass is Calling the Risen, Glorified Christ a Liar.

But maybe you are comfortable with that?
 
Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

Jesus is Messiah the Prince who is to come of Daniel...

Then you are labeling Him "the abomination of desolation" of Daniel 9:27.JLB


Nope... The text is clear... The one who confirms the covenant (which was Jesus) is not the same person as "the one who makes desolate"

Two completely different individuals.

Nice try though.


The prince who is to come, is the "he" who confirms a 7 year covenant.

"He" is a reference to the last person mentioned.

The last person mentioned is the prince who is to come.

Jesus did not confirm a 7 year covenant.

Jesus confirmed an everlasting covenant.

Now may the God of peace who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, Hebrews 13:20


JLB
 
For a partial preterist to say someone is a futurist then they would have to believe a futurist does not believe Jesus died on the cross yet as a partial preterist believes Jesus already came and the 6th seal is past.

What???
Mike, you are WoF, not Calvinist. I'm a combination, non denominational. Believe in the gifts but not some of the garbage that has been added to the good stuff. I am not Baptist but I believe some of the same things they do.

Defining someone's belief by giving it a name is just a help give an overview of what they may believe. A starting point if you will.

A furturist, partial furturist or partial preterist, preterist, pre-trib, post-trib, amill., post mill, etc. are JUST terms used for the study of end times. They are not about someone's salvation beliefs.


For a partial preterist to say someone is a futurist then they would have to believe a futurist does not believe Jesus died on the cross yet as a partial preterist believes Jesus already came and the 6th seal is past.


I think you need to ask questions before you try to use these terms as absolutes.
" they would have to believe a futurist does not believe Jesus died on the cross yet as a partial preterist believes Jesus already came and the 6th seal is past"

Mike, Jesus died on the cross around 34 AD, all Christians no matter what their tag is for end times, agree that Jesus died on the cross, around this time.
Most partial preterist DO NOT believe that the Second Coming has already happened!!

I could give up a Very long list of the Protestant church fathers including Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Wesley, Matthew Henry,
Charles Spurgeon, Adam Clark, etc, etc. that ALL believed the Daniel 9:24-27 already happened in 70 AD.

To believe that it did not, is being taught right here on this forum as being a new revelation (or understanding) given since, 1830 through Darby, Scofield, etc.
Go and read the thread where you said to the author of the thread, "You wrote your own post, impressive". I believe, that is what that post in Focus on the Scripture is saying. That the church fathers like those listed above did not have an understanding (revelation) of end times scriptures. So that is why they were not dispensational believers. Their perspective was "historical" not "furturist".


Is futurism dying? that is not the question, the question is, is false teaching gaining strength and needs a label for those that believe scriptures?

So were THEY all messed up? OR starting about 1830, did false teaching start gaining strength and it needs labels such as Dispensational, etc.

OR, OR.... is the truth of the matter that we just don't know for sure, any of us. And we just do our best to let scripture interrupt scripture. And we do not put down our brother in Christ because his end times theology does not agree with ours.

I could say I am a partial preterist, a partial furturist, and in some teachings an "historicalist" (?). Just love those "isms" and "ists".

Blessing Mike
 
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Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

10 The Lord has made bare His holy arm In the eyes of all the nations; And all the ends of the earth shall see The salvation of our God. Isaiah 52:10


Had the Lord become a flesh and blood Man when this prophecy was given?


JLB


The Text is Clear. Gods ARM was made visible to EVERY EYE.
Do you disagree?

I disagree.

The Lord was a Spirit at that time.


Since then He became flesh and has a glorified natural body that can eat, yet walk through walls. That can been seen by Humans.


JLB

Ok, then what was the nature of Gods Holy Arm, and How did EVERY EYE SEE IT?



" 7 How beautiful upon the mountains Are the feet of him who brings good news, Who proclaims peace, Who brings glad tidings of good things, Who proclaims salvation, Who says to Zion, "Your God reigns!" 8 Your watchmen shall lift up their voices, With their voices they shall sing together; For they shall see eye to eye When the Lord brings back Zion. 9 Break forth into joy, sing together, You waste places of Jerusalem! For the Lord has comforted His people, He has redeemed Jerusalem. 10 The Lord has made bare His holy arm In the eyes of all the nations; And all the ends of the earth shall see The salvation of our God. Isaiah 52:7-10


This clearly a prophectic word about the Lord and the salvation He would in the "good news" Gospel of The Kingdom.

Verse 10 speaks of a future when Messiah would in fact be revealed to the nations.

Jesus fulfilled that scripture when He became flesh and dwelt among us, and brought forth the salvation of God.

So the answer to your question is No.

The nations did not see his arm at the time of Isaiah, but did so in the future when the Lord was made manisfest to all.

The price for this salvation -

Just as many were astonished at you, So His visage was marred more than any man, And His form more than the sons of men; Isaiah 52:14


The word was future.

You are stuck in seeing every word applied only to a current people or circumstance.


JLB
 
Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

He could eat, yet Walk on Water and pass through hostile crowds untouched.

What's the difference?


He has an immortal body that will never die anymore.


JLB
 
Taking Rev 12 and saying that has come to past and rev 1-3 saying it has come to past is not partial preterism.


Well, Claiming Revelation 1-3 was NOT meant FOR those 7, Actual 1st Century Churches and has not come to pass is Calling the Risen, Glorified Christ a Liar.

But maybe you are comfortable with that?


Those are you words, not his.



JLB
 
@Rev33 do you believe Jesus is returning for His Church/bride/people ?

I believe there will be a future to us consummation of the cosmos that is spoken of in the Creeds.
I do not Believe scripture contains any teaching on the timing and nature of that event however.
HUH?

When vague answers show up for direct question my suspicious mind goes into gear... :)

We do not kick full preterist out of the forums. The forums consider full preterism to be a heresy.
 
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@Rev33 do you believe Jesus is returning for His Church/bride/people ?

I believe there will be a future to us consummation of the cosmos that is spoken of in the Creeds.
I do not Believe scripture contains any teaching on the timing and nature of that event however.
HUH?

When vague answers show up for direct question my suspicious mind goes into gear... :)

We do not kick full preterist out of the forums. The forums consider full preterism to be a heresy.

How is it Vague?
I believe the Creeds 100%
How was that not a direct answer?
 
What???
Mike, you are WoF, not Calvinist. I'm a combination, non denominational. Believe in the gifts but not some of the garbage that has been added to the good stuff. I am not Baptist but I believe some of the same things they do.

Defining someone's belief by giving it a name is just a help give an overview of what they may believe. A starting point if you will.

A furturist, partial furturist or partial preterist, preterist, pre-trib, post-trib, amill., post mill, etc. are JUST terms used for the study of end times. They are not about someone's salvation beliefs.

What are you then.........eeewwwwww.................:)

Does saying I am baptist tell you I don't speak in tongues? I ran into one that did, and He told me He would not even dare mention it in his congregation because He got filled checking out the error of some other pentecostal church and BAM!!! God hooked him up. So what was to be a message and observation of what He thought was error turned into something else. (He was still not impressed with the hanging off the rafter parts though)

The point is, a label is what? Does it really give me any idea where you stand? I hardly think so, as someone called me a preterist because I believe Rev chapter 12 is speaking about Jesus coming and bringing the Kingdom of God with Salvation. I believe Jesus saw Satan fall light lighting and by the Kingdom of God coming the Lord gave us the authority over Satan as Satan lost any hold he had at that time on the Kingdom of God. The violent take it by force baby!!!

That made me a Preterist as the waring words were Kingdom of God, and Rev 12 came to pass.

I got labeled with something I don't even believe, because It does not put Jesus coming in 70ad, does not diminish the judgment to come. Jesus is coming and this earth is going to be in a World of hurt they have never seen. Then someone labels me a Futurist............ I get that label because I do not believe in the 70ad nonsense. Go figure.


Most partial preterist DO NOT believe that the Second Coming has already happened!!

Not true.......... You can't remove the 6th seal and claim this. It's not possible, it's one or the other.


I could say I am a partial preterist, a partial furturist, and in some teachings an "historicalist" (?). Just love those "isms" and "ists".

As I said.......... Eeeewwwwwwww :)

If you Look at JLB and I...... Both of our belief's, You see very different views on the timing we get to be with Jesus. It's based on but a handful of scriptures understood differently. Neither view removes Jesus coming personally to run His Kingdom on Earth, for now we run that kingdom and occupy until He comes. Neither view removes the judgment on mankind and it's not going to be pretty.

Both views end up the same way at the end, Both views don't change a thing for anyone when the dust settles.

You can argue about post or pre trib raptures but that won't keep the stars in the heavens, won't keep the sun from going out.

So, if the Kingdom of God is here and now, and it is, but if that is all the Kingdom of God we are getting, then we are far below ability, far below right now than where we should be. We should be doing our part, and great things will get done, but the World will remain a mess until the Lord Jesus comes, and sets it right.







Mike.
 
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