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Is futurism dying

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You are asking if I share the same conclusions you do about the nature of the event, not if I believe There will be a Future to us coming.

Do you know my conclusions about that nature of the event?

Apparently you have concluded that the Future to us coming is to Collect His Church/Bride/people.

Since His Church/Bride and People are ALSO His BODY, and I believe He is currently present IN That Body, not absent from it, I tend to think His return doesn't need to accomplish what is already a present reality.
 
Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

@ Deb

I do not believe that we are going to be living on this earth (or anywhere) with our Lord Jesus, for a 1,000 yrs. participating in animal blood sacrifices.
Animal blood sacrifices in the 1000 year reign ?

That's a new one.

I'm afraid to ask where that scripture is.


JLB


Scofield one of the father of dispensationalism said this.... "
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Doubtless these offerings will be memorial, looking back to the cross, as the offerings under the old covenant were anticipatory, looking forward to the cross. In neither case have animal sacrifices power to put away sin." [/FONT]


Sorry, but Scofield couldn't be more wrong about that.
Which is kind of par for the course with him.

He is fooling himself (and myriads of others) about Ezekiel 40-44's sacrifices. They are propitiatory and forever:


Ezekiel 40:39
In the porch of the gate were two tables on each side, on which to slaughter the burnt offering, the sin offering and the guilt offering.

Ezekiel 42:13
the priests who are near to the LORD shall eat the most holy things. There they shall lay the most holy things, the grain offering, the sin offering and the guilt offering;

Ezekiel 43:20
'You shall take some of its blood and put it on its four horns and on the four corners of the ledge and on the border round about; thus you shall cleanse it and make atonement for it.

Ezekiel 43:21
'You shall also take the bull for the sin offering

Ezekiel 43:22
'On the second day you shall offer a male goat without blemish for a sin offering

Ezekiel 43:27
'When they have completed the days, it shall be that on the eighth day and onward, the priests shall offer your burnt offerings on the altar, and your peace offerings; AND I WILL ACCEPT YOU

Ezekiel 44:9
'Thus says the Lord GOD, "No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh of all the foreigners who are among the sons of Israel, shall enter My sanctuary.

Ezekiel 44:10
"But the Levites who went far from Me when Israel went astray, who went astray from Me after their idols, shall bear the punishment for their iniquity. Yet they shall be ministers in My sanctuary, having oversight at the gates of the house and ministering in the house; they shall slaughter the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people

Ezekiel 44:23
"Moreover, they shall teach My people the difference between the holy and the profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.

Ezekiel 43:7
Son of man, this [stone temple] is the place of My throne and the place of the soles of My feet, where I will dwell among the sons of Israel forever.


All these offerings are the propitiatory offerings of the Mosaic Law that Jesus came to end forever. The teaching of a reinstitution of this blood sacrificial system is a rebuke against the blood of Jesus Christ, and a cause for anathema according to the apostles. A return to this system is a falling away from salvation, according to the apostles. A falling from the grace of Jesus Christ.

To Insist that the Glorified Christ will sit on a physical throne in Jerusalem for 1000 years and require human beings to be circumcised and offer animal blood sacrifices directly TO HIM for "atonement" is so ridiculous it hardly merits a response, but for the fact so many good people are deceived into believing such.
 
Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

@ Deb

I do not believe that we are going to be living on this earth (or anywhere) with our Lord Jesus, for a 1,000 yrs. participating in animal blood sacrifices.
Animal blood sacrifices in the 1000 year reign ?

That's a new one.

I'm afraid to ask where that scripture is.


JLB



Scofield one of the fathers of dispensationalism said this.... "
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Doubtless these offerings will be memorial, looking back to the cross, as the offerings under the old covenant were anticipatory, looking forward to the cross. In neither case have animal sacrifices power to put away sin." [/FONT]


Some how i lost a line from my original post..... When called on the carpet for his view on the sacrifices in the temple he was waiting for He adjusted his view using the above quote.
 
Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

Scofield one of the fathers of dispensationalism said this.... "
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Doubtless these offerings will be memorial, looking back to the cross, as the offerings under the old covenant were anticipatory, looking forward to the cross. In neither case have animal sacrifices power to put away sin." [/FONT]


Some how i lost a line from my original post..... When called on the carpet for his view on the sacrifices in the temple he was waiting for He adjusted his view using the above quote.


I'm somewhat surprised JLB has never heard of this view surrounding the Millennial Temple and the scriptures used to support it before... He seems too well versed in scripture to have let this one slip by his radar.

Indeed I know of no Christian who believes there will be a Physical Temple in Jerusalem that the glorified Christ will sit on for 1000 years who does not claim Ez 40-44 depicts it.
 
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Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

Lots of ideas have mellowed over my 66 years.

Many young dispensationalist have zero idea how the view came about.... the acceptance of the idea that the Covenant with Abraham was unconditional is astounding. God say sover and over IF IF you obey
 
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Luke 23 NIV
27 A large number of people followed him, including women who mourned and wailed for him. 28 Jesus turned and said to them, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me; weep for yourselves and for your children. 29For the time will come when you will say, ‘Blessed are the childless women, the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed!’ 30 Then
“‘they will say to the mountains, “Fall on us!”
and to the hills, “Cover us!”’

Hosea 10:8 NIV

8 The high places of wickedness[a] will be destroyed—
it is the sin of Israel.
Thorns and thistles will grow up
and cover their altars.
Then they will say to the mountains, “Cover us!”
and to the hills, “Fall on us!”


The stars get wiped from the heavens, the sun goes out, and the moon turns blood red. No stars is a pretty big event I would say along with the sun going out.

Isaiah 13 NIV
5 They come from faraway lands,
from the ends of the heavens—
the Lord and the weapons of his wrath—
to destroy the whole country.
6 Wail, for the day of the Lord is near;
it will come like destruction from the Almighty.[a]
7 Because of this, all hands will go limp,
every heart will melt with fear.
8 Terror will seize them,
pain and anguish will grip them;
they will writhe like a woman in labor.
They will look aghast at each other,
their faces aflame.

9 See, the day of the Lord is coming
—a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger—
to make the land desolate
and destroy the sinners within it.
10 The stars of heaven and their constellations
will not show their light.
The rising sun will be darkened
and the moon will not give its light.
11 I will punish the world for its evil,
the wicked for their sins.
13 Therefore I will make the heavens tremble;
and the earth will shake from its place
at the wrath of the Lord Almighty,
in the day of his burning anger
19Babylon, the jewel of kingdoms,
the pride and glory of the Babylonians,[b] [Chaldeans]
will be overthrown by God
like Sodom and Gomorrah.

So who is the above scripture talking about and when did it take place? The 1st verse tells us.....
Isaiah 13
1. A prophecy against Babylon that Isaiah son of Amoz saw:

We are here a prophecy against Babylon, which was done just as God said, they were destroyed, there were others as you know against Tyre and others. The wording of sun, moon, stars is familiar to judgment prophecies. Darkness, etc.

We also see this judgment against Babylon is called the Day of the Lord. When God brings judgment it is called the Day of Lord.
That does not mean that it is the final Last Day of the Lord.

First this prophecy says, Babylon, then country, then world, then earth, then Babylon again.
So is this prophecy about Babylon (where the Israelites were taken slaves) or the whole world?


I am not sure where you got this.........or who says that.


Tim LaHaye, Tom Ice for just two of the dispensationalist. I have to give them credit for their honesty. Many do not admit this, including the AoG church where I studied Revelation from a college coarse from a Christian College, I can't remember which one, it's been over 30 years ago, now.
It's in the prophecies in Ezekiel. There are blood sacrifices for atonement. These are prophecies that are used about the 1,000 reign.
When someone pointed this out to me a few months ago, I didn't know this either. So I searched the scriptures and there it was. How did I miss this? I was following a book and a teaching written by a man, not God's Word.
If one makes these blood sacrifices for atonement only symbolic then the rest should only be symbolic right? Not literal.

http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice-WhySacrificesinTheMi.pdf

A common objection to the consistent literal interpretation of Bible prophecy is

found in Ezekiel’s Temple vision (Ezek. 40—48). Opponents argue that if this is a

literal, future Temple, then it will require a return to the sacrificial system that Christ

made obsolete since the prophet speaks of “atonement” (kiper) in Ezekiel 43:13, 27;


45:15, 17, 20. This is true! Critics believe this to be a blasphemous contradiction to the

finished work of Christ as presented in Hebrews 10. [and I agree]

The millennium will return history to a time when Israel will be God’s mediatory

people but will also continue to be a time in which sin will be present upon the earth.

Thus, God will include a new Temple, a new priesthood, a new Law, etc., at this future

time because He will be present in Israel and still desires to teach that holiness is

required to approach Him. This is contrasted with the fact that no Temple will exist in

eternity (Rev. 21:22) because God and the Lamb are the Temple since there will be no

sin in heaven, thus no need for ritual cleansing. [sin is present right now, Jesus said we can approach, the vail was torn, it's going back up?]
 
To me and I hope to all those in this thread.... The important thing is that we all love the Lord, we all believe that this is not it. This world, this mess (as Brother Mike, aptly put it) will not go on forever. Whatever happens, however it happens, we can trust our Lord that it will be for our good.
Second that we all love each other, in the Lord. That we can be respectful, which I think we've all been good about that, with discussing such different views.

This site is such a blessing to me and others. Thank you, all. :)

And some people's goofy remarks sure lighten the mood.
 
Do you believe The Church IS Christ's Body on earth today?

A straight question that is not always simple.. Yes

OK, is Christ present in that Body currently or absent from it?

The Spirit of Christ is.

The Man Jesus Christ is seated at the right hand of God.

He will remain there until the time of the restoration of all things.


JLB

So the Spirit of Christ is absent from the Man Jesus Christ currently?
 
Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

I would n't think the Spirit of God is limited to the body of Christ. nor to the body of the man part of Christ .... nor to heaven etc.
 
Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

I would n't think the Spirit of God is limited to the body of Christ. nor to the body of the man part of Christ .... nor to heaven etc.


I would Agree, but if the Spirit is present in His Body on earth (The Church) and simultaneously present in His body in Heaven, doesn't it follow That The two Bodies are present with one another?

The notion of "Present but Absent" doesn't fly with me so much.... God is no oxymoron
 
Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

Guess we see things a bit different... Sorta like , His kids have the Holy Spirit... you do i do he does she does... Yet there is one spirit
 
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