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Is it even possible to desolate a future Temple

C

Cameron

Guest
Is it even possible for a future Temple to be deolsated if we are God's Temple with the Holy Spirit living in our hearts.

Compare Matthew 5:17 with Hebrews 8-12

Hebrews 9:24 For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf.

Hebrews 10:1 For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near.
 
In other words...

How can a future Temple be made sacred in the first place if God is in our hearts and not in the Temple? How could anything abominate or desolate a place that can not be made sacred?
 
You are right Cameron except i believe it is talking about a Jewish temple since it said for all of those in Judaea to flee.

Matthew 24
15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
 
LDR,
True-agreed. But this is an interesting question nevertheless.

Jesus clearly spoke of a future defilement and yet He laso knew that we would be the Temple in the future.

Jesus spoke of destroying the temple and raising it in three days and yet those who heard thought He spoke of the Temple on Mt. Zion.

Daniel 9:24-27 does require a literal fullfiment in the same way the city square was rebuilt literally and the Messiah was literally cut-off. So to be logical (assuming that logic has any value in the Bible or language) then when Jesus refers to Daniel in Matthew 24:15 He must be connecting literal events to a literal defilement.

But a defilement of what? God's Spirit no longer makes the Temple sacred. Or is there a phase out? When God's Spirit left it in Ezekiel was that then? It's God that makes someting sacred, not men. Or is it men that dedicate things thus making it sacred? Get the idea?

How do you or anyone else resolve it? Is it an apologetics question?
 
I see what you are saying Cameron and i guess i never really thought about it. How about when Jesus told the disciples that anything they ask of the Father in his name he would do it. But when they asked him how they should pray he doesn't mention it and seems to give an old covenant prayer.


LDR
 
How do you or anyone else resolve it? Is it an apologetics question?
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I never looked at it in this light either, although I too understand this to be talking about the jews.

I think this is the right Forum for this Cameron.
 
But when they asked him how they should pray he doesn't mention it and seems to give an old covenant prayer.
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Oh, He did answer them. That prayer, as I understand it, is an outline of how we should pray.

But I digress now... :oops: :lol:
 
The world is his temple, and it will run efficiently ever after. But will their be a place to lay his head when he is revealed? If it is given to him he will multiply it and give it back to you. If you decide he is crazy for even suggesting such things than you will never know. Lets hope someone listens to the messiah when he reveals who he is and what he has done.
 
I think you need to read what Jesus said his return will be like Jake. There will be no doubt when he returns.

LDR
 
This topic also deals with when one thinks the Old Covenant ended and and the New Covenant began.

Was the Temple of any value between 32-70AD?

If no, why did Paul observe Jewish traditions in Acts by going to the Temple?

Is Christ's sacrifice as the Passover Lamb create a mutually exclusive condition that defuncts the Temple?

If the Temple before 70 AD was just a shadow according to Hebrews, could a future Temple also be a shadow?

I'm not promoting any of these, just asking for opinions and ideas.
 
Cameron said:
This topic also deals with when one thinks the Old Covenant ended and and the New Covenant began.

Was the Temple of any value between 32-70AD?
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the temple was of no further value(to God at least) after jesus said in Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Cameron said:
If no, why did Paul observe Jewish traditions in Acts by going to the Temple?
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1Co 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
1Co 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1Co 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
1Co 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
1Co 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

Cameron said:
Is Christ's sacrifice as the Passover Lamb create a mutually exclusive condition that defuncts the Temple?
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it sure looks that way don't it?

Cameron said:
If the Temple before 70 AD was just a shadow according to Hebrews, could a future Temple also be a shadow?
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when that which casts the shadow comes into full view, it kind of has a tendency to make the shadow insignificant

Cameron said:
I'm not promoting any of these, just asking for opinions and ideas.
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all the old covenant rituals were only types and shadows pointing to Christ, he came and fulfilled them all, "when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away"
 
the temple was of no further value(to God at least) after jesus said in Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
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How does this work with what Jesus said in Matthew 5:17?
 
Matthew 24:15 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society



15"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,'[a] spoken of through the prophet Danielâ€â€let the reader understandâ€â€

*****

John here:
Are we up on the Sanctuary teaching? Psalms 77:13

The books that we call the four Gospels speak of Daniel's work. And these four talk of THE ABOMINATION THAT MAKES DESOLATE & the destruction of the Temple in AD 70. 34 years apart. Daniels work combines the two separate time/frames, as one event most folk think? re/read it. (Read it again) Even Adventist find this study confusing because of this. (And Yes, Adventist have special understanding! :fadein: and I know what follows after that remark, huh? :wink:)

The above 15th verse states when 'you see in the Holy Place the abomination that makes desolate' This is the Midnight Cry of Matthew 25:6, not the loud cry of 70AD. You are to 'see' this, no fight! No armies! INVITED!! Now: Who took over when Christ was REJECTED??? Check out John 7:1 also with John 1:10-11 (satan of Revelation 3:9) Do you remember the Documented Statement of Israel, "That we have no king but Caesar"? Well, that was not the 70AD slaughter!

Notice Christ's own Words in Matthew 23:38. BEHOLD YOUR HOUSE IS LEFT UNTO YOU D-E-S-O-L-A-T-E!! That means a closed door as a church denomination! See Revelation 2:5 Revelation 3:9 & Matthew 25:10 or Luke 12:47-48 for how responsible Christ makes us!
 
Daniels work combines the two separate time/frames
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Three if you count Antiochus, 70 A.D. and the possibility that Revelation was written post 70 A.D. :-D

Notice Christ's own Words in Matthew 23:38. BEHOLD YOUR HOUSE IS LEFT UNTO YOU D-E-S-O-L-A-T-E!! That means a closed door as a church denomination! See Revelation 2:5 Revelation 3:9 & Matthew 25:10 or Luke 12:47-48 for how responsible Christ makes us!
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I believe when Jesus uttered these words in Matthew 23:38, He was speaking to the Jews. See Matthew 23:37.
 
The precursor to 70 AD (Rome's invasion) was 609-586 BC (Babylon's Invasion). These both compliment each other in type and severity. Both occured on the same Jewish calendar day in history.

In Matthew 24: 15 we are told to look at an abomination of desolation spoken by Daniel.

Matt. 24:15 ...(let the reader understand).

In Daniel there are a few references, some clearly to a precursor that occured in 168 BC, some speaking of the future beyond 168 BC. They passage in

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand...

This sets up another precursor with fulfillment.

In 168 BC Antiochus slaughtered a pig on the Altar and set up the statue of Olympian Zeus to be worshipped. Those who did not or who still obeyed Sabbatical laws were killedasthe armies roamed the streets of Jerusalem and Judea.

70 AD is a mismatch to this event that Jesus is connecting to us. It has yet to happen.

609-586 BC was the precursor to 70 AD
168 BC was the precursor to ???? (still future)
 
Cameron said:
The precursor to 70 AD (Rome's invasion) was 609-586 BC (Babylon's Invasion). These both compliment each other in type and severity. Both occured on the same Jewish calendar day in history.

In Matthew 24: 15 we are told to look at an abomination of desolation spoken by Daniel.

Matt. 24:15 ...(let the reader understand).

In Daniel there are a few references, some clearly to a precursor that occured in 168 BC, some speaking of the future beyond 168 BC. They passage in

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand...

This sets up another precursor with fulfillment.

In 168 BC Antiochus slaughtered a pig on the Altar and set up the statue of Olympian Zeus to be worshipped. Those who did not or who still obeyed Sabbatical laws were killedasthe armies roamed the streets of Jerusalem and Judea.

70 AD is a mismatch to this event that Jesus is connecting to us. It has yet to happen.

609-586 BC was the precursor to 70 AD
168 BC was the precursor to ????

********
Well this below is your question, so define what the temple is? If you need help, see Psalms 77:13 & surely it must include the BOOK of heavens original Pattern! Hebrews 9:23-24, and earth's responsible ones of Luke 12:47-48.

And your quote of: (still future)"Is it even possible to desolate a future Temple"

---John
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Vic said:
Daniels work combines the two separate time/frames
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Three if you count Antiochus, 70 A.D. and the possibility that Revelation was written post 70 A.D. :-D

[quote:ddbb4]Notice Christ's own Words in Matthew 23:38. BEHOLD YOUR HOUSE IS LEFT UNTO YOU D-E-S-O-L-A-T-E!! That means a closed door as a church denomination! See Revelation 2:5 Revelation 3:9 & Matthew 25:10 or Luke 12:47-48 for how responsible Christ makes us!
Click to expand...
I believe when Jesus uttered these words in Matthew 23:38, He was speaking to the Jews. See Matthew 23:37.[/quote:ddbb4]

****
Vic, you are a stinker! :wink: I was trying to make a point! (Not to get into the 2300 day prophecy :fadein: )
--John
 
A related question is:

Was it ever possible to desolate the previous Temple?


If so what made that possible?


Was the previous Temple any more or less of a shadow than it would be today or ever?

Heb 8:5 They serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things. For when Moses was about to erect the tent, he was instructed by God, saying, "See that you make everything according to the pattern that was shown you on the mountain."
 
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