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Is Partial Preterism a New Perspective?

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Tri Unity

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Unlike Preterism, which denies the second coming of Jesus; Partial Preterism holds that the …“Second coming and the resurrection of the dead …have not yet occurred.” (Wikipedia) This view, like futurists (of which I am) upholds the future coming of Jesus. One of the greatest advocates of this body of doctrine is N. T. Wright, a British New Testament scholar and the Anglican Bishop of Durham, England (until his retirement in2010). Wright is a pioneer of the New Perspective Movement - which seeks to re-write many of the New Testament perspectives of traditional protestant doctrines and teachings. Partial Preterism opposes futurism; and yet it hold a futurism doctrine. Partial Preterism disagrees with almost all fundamental teachings of the church. They are strongly opposed to being labeled as full Preterism; they are strongly opposed to being labeled Futurists; they are strongly opposed to traditional doctrines on justification, faith, grace, atonement, works and righteousness.

Do all Partial Preterists agree with each other as to which doctrines are still future and which are already fulfilled? No. The camps are very much divided, which makes discussion about Partial Preterism all the more tenuous. The common denominator they appear to agree with, in contradiction to Full Preterism, is that the Second Coming of Christ did not occurred in 70 AD. The Preterism camps argue with each other on this most fundamental of teachings to the Preterism position. Most people who still believe in the Second Coming of Christ readily acknowledge this as a futurist position; but not so with Partial Preterism. They “strongly oppose” any label of futurism in spite that their major doctrine on Christ is futurist.

I would be interested to know how others have dealt with these teachings.
 
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Believe it or not, the Bible nowhere speaks of the "second coming" of Christ. The "second coming," like many of the most commonly accepted doctrines of professing Christianity cannot be found in the Bible. There is no mention whatever of such things as Christmas, Easter, the "immaculate conception" of Mary, mass, popes, church buildings, the Trinity, and yes - the "second coming". People have coined a great many unscriptural terms that have been so misleading and have led us astray in our understanding of the scriptures - the "second coming" being one of them.

Futurism, full-preterism, partial-preterism, dispensationalism, etc. are all erroneous doctrines that close you into a theological box and keep you from "following the Lamb wheresoever He goeth." God's truth is always "on the move" and never stationary. Anyone locked into a particular denomination or sect of Christianity will always be hundreds of years behind God's present truth regarding His ever-unfolding plan. Denominations also prevent people from "letting go" of old dead ideas and replacing them with what GOD IS SAYING RIGHT NOW! That is what Jesus was referring to in His analogy of putting 'new wine' into 'old wineskins'.

Futurists and preterists have been led to think in terms of the 'first coming' and the 'second coming'. God does not talk about the "first coming" and the "second coming" - He talks about the progressive revelation of the Son of God i.e. - "The Revelation of Jesus Christ." The Greek word for "revelation" is APOKALUPSIS meaning "unveiling, uncovering," and hence, revealing." This is expressed in Revelation 1:7, "EVERY EYE shall SEE Him..." The error of the unspiritual and unenlightened mind is that it immediately assumes that every eye must see Him at the same time and in the same manner.

Scripture supports the fact that Christ was before Bethlehem. He is just as real in the Old Testament as He is in the New Testament. The great difference, of course, is that HE BECAME FLESH. He said, "Before Abraham was, I AM.." John opened his Gospel with: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Notice the "comings" of the Lord throughout the Scriptures:

  • In Mark 13:26 He comes with CLOUDS.
  • In Matthew 24:27 He comes as LIGHTNING.
  • In Revelation 16:15 He comes as a THIEF.
  • In Matthew 25:6 He comes as the BRIDEGROOM.
  • In Revelation 22:16 and 2:28 He comes as the MORNING STAR.
  • In Malachi 4:2 He comes as the SUN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS ARISING.
  • In Philippians 3:20-21 He comes in RESURRECTION POWER.
  • In 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8 He comes in FLAMING FIRE.
  • In Malachi 3:1-3 He comes to His priesthood company as REFINER'S FIRE and FULLER'S SOAP.
  • In 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 He comes IN THE AIR.
  • In Hosea 6:3 and James 5:7-8 He comes as the RAIN.
  • In Revelation 19:11 & 14 He comes on a WHITE HORSE.
  • In Matthew 25:31-34 He comes as KING.
  • In 1 Peter 5:4 He comes as the CHIEF SHEPHERD.
  • In Matthew 16:27 He comes WITH HIS ANGELS.
  • In Jude 14 He comes WITH HIS SAINTS.
  • In John 14:18 He comes TO HIS SAINTS.
  • In 2 Thessalonians 1:10 He comes IN HIS SAINTS.
  • In Jude 14 & 15 He comes in JUDGMENT.
  • In Revelation 22:12 He comes WITH REWARDS.
  • In 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 He comes with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, with the trump of God.

also,

  • He comes to the Mount of Olives;
  • He comes to His temple;
  • He comes in glory;
  • He comes as Lord;
  • He comes in His Kingdom;
  • He comes as seasons of refreshing, etc., etc., etc.

If the coming of the Lord is not a progressive revelation in many manifestations, then WHICH of the many comings enumerated earlier IS THE SECOND COMING? The term - "the second coming of Christ" - is not scriptural and cannot be found anywhere in the Bible. Almost all of Christendom teaches that the return of the Lord is either one single, future event; or one single, past event. But the Scriptures teach that Christ came, He comes, He continues to come, He will come, and will continue to come. Nothing - absolutely nothing in the scriptures limits Christ's coming to one singular future event, or one single past event in 70 AD. In fact, the doctrine of the second coming of Christ (as an event that has never occurred in recent times) is as fictitious as Barack Obama being the antichrist, or the immaculate conception of the virgin Mary, or the infallibility of the Pope, or the pre-tribulation rapture. It's just more of Mystery Babylon's religious fiction and sensationalism - i.e. - nonsense! Futurists and preterists believe the same traditional fairy tale; they only disagree on the timing.
 
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Believe it or not, the Bible nowhere speaks of the "second coming" of Christ. The "second coming," like many of the most commonly accepted doctrines of professing Christianity cannot be found in the Bible. There is no mention whatever of such things as Christmas, Easter, the "immaculate conception" of Mary, mass, popes, church buildings, the Trinity, and yes - the "second coming". People have coined a great many unscriptural terms that have been so misleading and have led us astray in our understanding of the scriptures - the "second coming" being one of them.

Futurism, full-preterism, partial-preterism, dispensationalism, etc. are all erroneous doctrines that close you into a theological box and keep you from "following the Lamb wheresoever He goeth." God's truth is always "on the move" and never stationary. Anyone locked into a particular denomination or sect of Christianity will always be hundreds of years behind God's present truth regarding His ever-unfolding plan. Denominations also prevent people from "letting go" of old dead ideas and replacing them with what GOD IS SAYING RIGHT NOW! That is what Jesus was referring to in His analogy of putting 'new wine' into 'old wineskins'.

Futurists and preterists have been led to think in terms of the 'first coming' and the 'second coming'. God does not talk about the "first coming" and the "second coming" - He talks about the progressive revelation of the Son of God i.e. - "The Revelation of Jesus Christ." The Greek word for "revelation" is APOKALUPSIS meaning "unveiling, uncovering," and hence, revealing." This is expressed in Revelation 1:7, "EVERY EYE shall SEE Him..." The error of the unspiritual and unenlightened mind is that it immediately assumes that every eye must see Him at the same time and in the same manner.

Scripture supports the fact that Christ was before Bethlehem. He is just as real in the Old Testament as He is in the New Testament. The great difference, of course, is that HE BECAME FLESH. He said, "Before Abraham was, I AM.." John opened his Gospel with: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Notice the "comings" of the Lord throughout the Scriptures:

  • In Mark 13:26 He comes with CLOUDS.
  • In Matthew 24:27 He comes as LIGHTNING.
  • In Revelation 16:15 He comes as a THIEF.
  • In Matthew 25:6 He comes as the BRIDEGROOM.
  • In Revelation 22:16 and 2:28 He comes as the MORNING STAR.
  • In Malachi 4:2 He comes as the SUN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS ARISING.
  • In Philippians 3:20-21 He comes in RESURRECTION POWER.
  • In 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8 He comes in FLAMING FIRE.
  • In Malachi 3:1-3 He comes to His priesthood company as REFINER'S FIRE and FULLER'S SOAP.
  • In 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 He comes IN THE AIR.
  • In Hosea 6:3 and James 5:7-8 He comes as the RAIN.
  • In Revelation 19:11 & 14 He comes on a WHITE HORSE.
  • In Matthew 25:31-34 He comes as KING.
  • In 1 Peter 5:4 He comes as the CHIEF SHEPHERD.
  • In Matthew 16:27 He comes WITH HIS ANGELS.
  • In Jude 14 He comes WITH HIS SAINTS.
  • In John 14:18 He comes TO HIS SAINTS.
  • In 2 Thessalonians 1:10 He comes IN HIS SAINTS.
  • In Jude 14 & 15 He comes in JUDGMENT.
  • In Revelation 22:12 He comes WITH REWARDS.
  • In 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 He comes with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, with the trump of God.

also,

  • He comes to the Mount of Olives;
  • He comes to His temple;
  • He comes in glory;
  • He comes as Lord;
  • He comes in His Kingdom;
  • He comes as seasons of refreshing, etc., etc., etc.

If the coming of the Lord is not a progressive revelation in many manifestations, then WHICH of the many comings enumerated earlier IS THE SECOND COMING? The term - "the second coming of Christ" - is not scriptural and cannot be found anywhere in the Bible. Almost all of Christendom teaches that the return of the Lord is either one single, future event; or one single, past event. But the Scriptures teach that Christ came, He comes, He continues to come, He will come, and will continue to come. Nothing - absolutely nothing in the scriptures limits Christ's coming to one singular future event, or one single past event in 70 AD. In fact, the doctrine of the second coming of Christ (as an event that has never occurred in recent times) is as fictitious as Barack Obama being the antichrist, or the immaculate conception of the virgin Mary, or the infallibility of the Pope, or the pre-tribulation rapture. It's just more of Mystery Babylon's religious fiction and sensationalism - i.e. - nonsense! Futurists and preterists believe the same traditional fairy tale; they only disagree on the timing.

Just curious are you a Christian?
 
Preterism, which denies the second coming of Jesus...

Preterism doesn't deny the second coming. It denies the wrongly held futurist and dispensationalist view that His coming is future.

If you start with a false premise, you're going to end with a false conclusion. Your whole post begins with a false premise, cited above.
 
The term - "the second coming of Christ" - is not scriptural and cannot be found anywhere in the Bible.

"I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness. John 12:46 (NASB)

"If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also. John 14:3 (NASB)

:bigfrown
 
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Preterism doesn't deny the second coming. It denies the wrongly held futurist and dispensationalist view that His coming is future.

If you start with a false premise, you're going to end with a false conclusion. Your whole post begins with a false premise, cited above.

You are talking about Preterism; this thread is about "Partial Preterism". You have also used futurism and dispensationalism as synonymous terms - they are not. This is an example of starting with a false premise.
 
Thread is now open....
This establishish the sites view on the preterism discussion
please take note :
http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=44882

I think you have misunderstood Mike's comments on the Preterism discussion. Mike says that there is "heated dispute" over labels used - not that one label is more accepted on this site than another. To quote Mike's comments in full:

Mike said:
Separation of Preterism Discussions

In order to better distinguish preterism and discussions regarding this doctrine of eschatology, we've re-established this sub-forum of the End Times Forum. All threads on the topic of preterism should be posted in this Preterism Discussions Forum.​

Quoting Wikipedia: "Preterism is a variant of Christian eschatology which holds that some or all of the biblical prophecies concerning the Last Days (or End Times) refer to events which actually happened in the first century after Christ's birth. The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, meaning "past". Adherents of Preterism are known as Preterists. The two principal schools of Preterist thought are commonly called Partial Preterism and Full Preterism.

There is substantial disagreement over the terms used to denote these divisions of Preterist thought. Some Partial Preterists prefer to call their position Orthodox Preterism, thus contrasting their deference to the creeds of the Ecumenical Councils with what they perceive to be the Full Preterists' disregard for the same. Partial Preterism is also sometimes called Classical Preterism or Moderate Preterism. Some Full Preterists prefer to call their position Consistent Preterism, reflecting their extension of Preterism to all biblical prophecy and suggesting an inconsistency in the Partial Preterist hermeneutic. The correct labeling of the positions in relation to each other is a matter of heated dispute amongst some Partial Preterists and Full Preterists who would reject those labels and argue for others, most noteably, which view may simply be called 'preterism'."


 
You are talking about Preterism...
You started this thread with the following (which I copied and pasted from your lead sentence):

Preterism, which denies the second coming of Jesus...

This is patently false and I explained why that was the case. If you can't stand by the words you post, don't post them.

Furthermore, I understand the differences between futurism and dispensationalism. They are not synonymous but they do share a central tenet in common: the wrongly held view of a future return of Christ back to earth.

You should really work on making sure your own posts are true before condemning mine.
 
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You started this thread with the following (which I copied and pasted from your lead sentence):

Preterism, which denies the second coming of Jesus...

This is patently false and explained why that was the case. If you can't stand by the words you post, don't post them.

I have used the terms in a future tense, you are using the words in a past tense. Stop trying to argue over such silliness; you knew exactly which way the terms were used.
 
I have used the terms in a future tense, you are using the words in a past tense.

Odd, considering the word "preterism" means "past." How could it ever be used in a future tense???

Stop trying to argue over such silliness; you knew exactly which way the terms were used.

Silliness? I don't consider your willful misstatement of the Preterist position (full or partial) in your lead sentence to be "silliness." It would be much better to tell the truth than willfully misstate other people's beliefs here.

And now that you know which way the terms should be used, perhaps you'll do the right thing and go correct your own "silliness." :grumpy
 
Do you have a point to make relative to the thread or are you just here to spread your joy.

I believe I've made it: fix the willful misstatement you made about Preterism in your lead sentence. Failing to do so just demonstrates a lack of credibility and integrity on your part.
 
Full Preterism denies the Second Coming of Jesus. Full Preterists try to give lip service to the doctrine of the Second Coming by implying that the event has already occured. Partial Preterism recognises Full Preterism to be a heresy due to its denial of the doctrines of the First Ecumenical Council. Partial Preterism has consequently recognised the future return of Christ to avoid being labelled as heresy. Full Preterism has been denounced in former Ecumenical Councils as being heresy.

As the discussion of Full Preterism is held in other threads, this thread is related to the orthodox and accepted doctrine of Partial Preterism, which holds to a future return of Christ.
 
Full Preterism denies the Second Coming of Jesus. Full Preterists try to give lip service to the doctrine of the Second Coming by implying that the event has already occured.
:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny

Here, let me assist:

Full preterism correctly places the second coming of Christ before the generation to whom He was addressing the prophecies of His return had passed; while some of His disciples and "those who pierced Him" still lived. This is a view consistent throughout the writings of the apostles in the New Testament, summarized by James:

Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. The farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until it gets the early and late rains. You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near. James 5:7-8 (NASB)

and the writer of Hebrews:

FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE, HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY. Hebrews 10:37 (NASB)

and John:

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near. Revelation 1:1-3 (NASB)

And he said to me, "These words are faithful and true"; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place. "And behold, I am coming quickly. Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book." Revelation 22:6-7 (NASB)

There are many, many other verses in the NT that Futurists must ignore to support their vacuous beliefs. They froth that preterism is counter to the creeds of the church while - all the time - ignoring the plainly written words of Christ and His apostles as to the timing of His return, best summarized by Christ's own words:

"For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:27-28 (NASB)

Futurism denies the word of God.

There. That's better.
 
I think you have misunderstood Mike's comments on the Preterism discussion. Mike says that there is "heated dispute" over labels used - not that one label is more accepted on this site than another. To quote Mike's comments in full:


Tri you are misunderstanding me. Mike posted the article i supplied. It is not that one label is "more accepted" than the other. The labels are posted only so the members have a starting point, some slight guide. A simple definition.

This subforum is here of my request, not my dismay. I believe the topic to be valid. As i believe a discussion of dispensational theology and futurism to be a valid discussion.

Please take the time to read this portion of the ToS.

1.13: The line of authority at ChristianForums.net is Global Moderators, Super Moderators, Administrators, and Site Owner. Moderators deal with the day-to-day running of the forums, and any concerns about moderation should be directed to the staff member in charge of that particular forum, or the staff member who has taken action that you wish to contest. Moderators are not obligated to argue in defense of actions they take. Members are at liberty to clarify an action taken with the Moderator, but they are not to persist when they are not satisfied with the response received. If a member disagrees with a Moderator's first response, they are not persist or take their dispute public. At that point, the appropriate step is to PM an Administrator. Administrators deal with the overall running of the site both on a technical side and also as a Staff Leadership role (as well as performing some moderation duties). Concerns on the site as a whole, technical issues or issues unsatisfactorily dealt with by moderators should be brought to the attention of the Administrators. Please note that an Administrator's word is final. Questions about finances should be directed to the Site Owner, but please note any other issues should be directed to Administrators, as the Site Owner does not engage with the running of the forums themselves.

I do hope we have a better understanding. reba
 
Guys post nicely! If this topic is too much for us to get along it can be closed off again....I will not be responsible for how your post read, because i have to use my time to edit them...
 
I do hope we have a better understanding. reba

I don't want to get on your wrong side reba... I've seen your rolling pin! I am trying to be sensative to the guidelines of the ToS, but you are right, I do not always understand them as they are intended.

Thanks
Tri
 
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