Is preaching once saved always saved helpful..

[Guest]

I have bee a christian for 9 years, I have always questioned the once saved always saved thing. If you look back at the 2000 years of the church history, do we really thing that the body of christ preached this like it does in the 20th and 21 century, the reformation didn't start till 1515. It just seems like everything that the roman catholic church believed was denounced by the protestant reformation out of spite. Even early church fathers didn't agree with what is being preached in this era... personally I'm still searching for what the bible says, there are a lot of verses that speak for both ways, but this era of christainity won't touch verses that don't go with the comfortable once saved always saved doctrine. :smt102

check out what early great church fathers said
Irenaeus, Tertullian, Cyprian,
Polycarp, Justin Martyr, Origen
http://www.bible.ca/indexHistory.htm

 

[Solo]

When I was first saved 23 years ago, I thought that the "once-saved-always-saved" doctrine was false and dangerous. After three years of studying the Bible, God showed me that I had misunderstood the meaning of salvation. It didn't matter what others told me about the subject. I refused to change my mind on the matter until God showed me in his Word what salvation was all about.

Now I believe that believers are sealed by the holy Spirit until the day of redemption.

30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Ephesians 4:30

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Ephesians 1:12-14

Believers can continue to sin since their sin payment has been paid for by the death of Jesus Christ. All believers' sins have been paid for by Jesus Christ; yesterday's sins, today's sins, and tomorrow's sins. Since grace abounds the more sin that it covers should we continue in sin? God forbid.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 5:19-21

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:1-23

One that continued in sin at Corinth was rebuked by Paul in that he gave commandment that such a one be turned over to satan so that his flesh would be destroyed but that his spirit would be saved in the Day of the Lord, Jesus.


1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
1 Corinthians 5:1-6

After these verses settled into my mind, along with many others, I began reading the letters to the seven churches in Revelation. I was convinced that the life of a believer is one of constant spiritual growth, repentance, more growth, more repentance, more growth, more repentance, and on and on.

Paul said, "For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."
Romans 5:14-25.

 

[Collier]

Believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit. However, believers are also warned not to quench the Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:19.) Quench means to put out (like a fire). So, if a Christian quenches the Holy Spirit are they still saved? Keep in mind Romans 8:14.

 

[Dave...]

Assurance comes from knowing that it is all of God. Jesus is the author and finisher of our salvation. What we should be worried about is whether or not our faith is real. This is why Paul tells us to check ourselves daily. How can a true faith fail when it is the Power of God that sustains us? We are not of those who fall away, but we are of those who persevere to the end. We are the house built on a solid foundation that will not wash away when the rains come.

 

[Solo]

Believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit. However, believers are also warned not to quench the Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:19.) Quench means to put out (like a fire). So, if a Christian quenches the Holy Spirit are they still saved? Keep in mind Romans 8:14.

Did Paul quench the Spirit when he did the things that he knew not to do? Did Paul quench the Spirit when he did not do the things that he knew that he should do?
Did Paul recognize the sin in his life? Did he loose his salvation?

What does it mean to be sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption?

 

[thessalonian]

Adherents to OSAS would have these verses be bluffs.

1 Cor 15:2
[1] Now I would remind you, brethren, in what terms I preached to you the gospel, which you received, in which you stand,
[2] by which you are saved, if you hold it fast -- unless you believed in vain.


Gal.5
[4] You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

Heb 6
[4] For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
[5] and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,
[6] if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt.

It is impossible for man to restore himself from a fall from grace. God can however if he chooses.

This is just a small sample. We also have the servant who was doing well when the Master came and rewarded him, in Luke 12, around v. 40. But when the Master delayed THAT (as in the same servant) began to get drunk and abuse the other servants. The Master came and he was treated as an UNBELIEVER according to the scriptures.

And there is Peter who denied our Lord three times. Now we know that Peter was eventually restored to grace. We know that he was in grace before, for in Matt 16:15-19 it is clear that Peter was born from about. But can a man deny our Lord and still be in grace? Jesus says "if you deny me before men, I will deny you before my Father in heaven. " Matt 10:32-33. A bluff? How many times would Peter have been able to deny him before it would have counted. I suspect that had Peter been handed a pamplet "Are you Saved" he would have thrown it in the mud and stomped on it at this point.

One can "fall from grace" is the term I prefer over loosing one's salvation because from God's perspective this cannot happen. He will save those whom he is going to save. But one can fall from grace, i.e. be not saved after you have been saved. The above scriptures and many more clearly show this.

blessings

 

[Soma-Sight]

OSAS is a lazy mans doctrine.......

 

[Solo]

Adherents to OSAS would have these verses be bluffs.

1 Cor 15:2
[1] Now I would remind you, brethren, in what terms I preached to you the gospel, which you received, in which you stand,
[2] by which you are saved, if you hold it fast -- unless you believed in vain.


Gal.5
[4] You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

Heb 6
[4] For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
[5] and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,
[6] if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt.

It is impossible for man to restore himself from a fall from grace. God can however if he chooses.

This is just a small sample. We also have the servant who was doing well when the Master came and rewarded him, in Luke 12, around v. 40. But when the Master delayed THAT (as in the same servant) began to get drunk and abuse the other servants. The Master came and he was treated as an UNBELIEVER according to the scriptures.

And there is Peter who denied our Lord three times. Now we know that Peter was eventually restored to grace. We know that he was in grace before, for in Matt 16:15-19 it is clear that Peter was born from about. But can a man deny our Lord and still be in grace? Jesus says "if you deny me before men, I will deny you before my Father in heaven. " Matt 10:32-33. A bluff? How many times would Peter have been able to deny him before it would have counted. I suspect that had Peter been handed a pamplet "Are you Saved" he would have thrown it in the mud and stomped on it at this point.

One can "fall from grace" is the term I prefer over loosing one's salvation because from God's perspective this cannot happen. He will save those whom he is going to save. But one can fall from grace, i.e. be not saved after you have been saved. The above scriptures and many more clearly show this.

blessings

How does one fall from grace? What is it that a believer could do to fall from grace?

 

[thessalonian]

Believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit. However, believers are also warned not to quench the Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:19.) Quench means to put out (like a fire). So, if a Christian quenches the Holy Spirit are they still saved? Keep in mind Romans 8:14.

Did Paul quench the Spirit when he did the things that he knew not to do? Did Paul quench the Spirit when he did not do the things that he knew that he should do?
Did Paul recognize the sin in his life? Did he loose his salvation?

What does it mean to be sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption?

Paul did not run around like the OSAS, presuming upon God to save him no matter what. He recognized the possibility of falling from grace. See the above verses. Also:

1 Cor 9
23. I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.
24. Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.
25. Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.
26. Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air;
27. but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

 

[thessalonian]

blessings

How does one fall from grace? What is it that a believer could do to fall from grace?

Ever heard of sin? Murder, fornication, adultery, theft, etc. etc.. Paul tells us these shall not enter. Do you think that once we are "saved" God does not hold us accountable for our future actions? Future sins contrary to what many protestants believe cannot be forgiven until after the fact. Did you not notice apostacy being a way of falling from grace in Heb 6.

Blessings

 

[Solo]

Believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit. However, believers are also warned not to quench the Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:19.) Quench means to put out (like a fire). So, if a Christian quenches the Holy Spirit are they still saved? Keep in mind Romans 8:14.

Did Paul quench the Spirit when he did the things that he knew not to do? Did Paul quench the Spirit when he did not do the things that he knew that he should do?
Did Paul recognize the sin in his life? Did he loose his salvation?

What does it mean to be sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption?

Paul did not run around like the OSAS, presuming upon God to save him no matter what. He recognized the possibility of falling from grace. See the above verses. Also:

1 Cor 9
23. I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.
24. Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.
25. Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.
26. Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air;
27. but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

It is obvious that you have not understood the doctrine of walking in the Spirit so that the desires of the flesh would be fulfilled.

Paul has the same "fleshly" problems that all believers live with. He explains that he is most miserable in not doing the things that he ought to do, and doing the things that he ought not do. He calls out what a wretched man that he is serving God with his mind and serving sin with his flesh.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Romans 7:14-25

He also tells those at Corinth to turn a believer over to satan so that his flesh may be destroyed but that his Spirit would be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
1 Corinthians 5:1-6

Perhaps you could answer my previous question.
What does it mean to be sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption?

 

[Solo]

blessings

How does one fall from grace? What is it that a believer could do to fall from grace?

Ever heard of sin? Murder, fornication, adultery, theft, etc. etc.. Paul tells us these shall not enter. Do you think that once we are "saved" God does not hold us accountable for our future actions? Future sins contrary to what many protestants believe cannot be forgiven until after the fact. Did you not notice apostacy being a way of falling from grace in Heb 6.

Blessings

For which sin will man fall from grace?
Is looking at a woman with lust in one's eye the same as adultery?
Is this a sin from which a man will fall from grace?
Will a lie be enough of a sin that a man will fall from grace?
Will murder be sin enough to fall from grace?
At what point is a sin, sinful enough to fall from grace?
Is there a list of sins that are ok and a list of sins that are not ok?

 

[thessalonian]

Believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit. However, believers are also warned not to quench the Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:19.) Quench means to put out (like a fire). So, if a Christian quenches the Holy Spirit are they still saved? Keep in mind Romans 8:14.

Did Paul quench the Spirit when he did the things that he knew not to do? Did Paul quench the Spirit when he did not do the things that he knew that he should do?
Did Paul recognize the sin in his life? Did he loose his salvation?

What does it mean to be sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption?

Paul did not run around like the OSAS, presuming upon God to save him no matter what. He recognized the possibility of falling from grace. See the above verses. Also:

1 Cor 9
23. I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.
24. Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.
25. Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.
26. Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air;
27. but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

It is obvious that you have not understood the doctrine of walking in the Spirit so that the desires of the flesh would be fulfilled.

Paul has the same "fleshly" problems that all believers live with. He explains that he is most miserable in not doing the things that he ought to do, and doing the things that he ought not do. He calls out what a wretched man that he is serving God with his mind and serving sin with his flesh.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Romans 7:14-25

He also tells those at Corinth to turn a believer over to satan so that his flesh may be destroyed but that his Spirit would be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
1 Corinthians 5:1-6

Perhaps you could answer my previous question.
What does it mean to be sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption?

I'll answer you if you will first answer about the servant in Luke 12.

Thanks.

 

[thessalonian]

Believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit. However, believers are also warned not to quench the Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:19.) Quench means to put out (like a fire). So, if a Christian quenches the Holy Spirit are they still saved? Keep in mind Romans 8:14.

Did Paul quench the Spirit when he did the things that he knew not to do? Did Paul quench the Spirit when he did not do the things that he knew that he should do?
Did Paul recognize the sin in his life? Did he loose his salvation?

What does it mean to be sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption?

Paul did not run around like the OSAS, presuming upon God to save him no matter what. He recognized the possibility of falling from grace. See the above verses. Also:

1 Cor 9
23. I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.
24. Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.
25. Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.
26. Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air;
27. but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

It is obvious that you have not understood the doctrine of walking in the Spirit so that the desires of the flesh would be fulfilled.

Paul has the same "fleshly" problems that all believers live with. He explains that he is most miserable in not doing the things that he ought to do, and doing the things that he ought not do. He calls out what a wretched man that he is serving God with his mind and serving sin with his flesh.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Romans 7:14-25

He also tells those at Corinth to turn a believer over to satan so that his flesh may be destroyed but that his Spirit would be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
1 Corinthians 5:1-6

Perhaps you could answer my previous question.
What does it mean to be sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption?

I'll answer you if you will first answer about the servant in Luke 12.

Thanks.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

"Falling from Grace" is a term used when describing people who chose to follow the law and do works to get to heaven. It does not describe people who sin since EVERYONE sins. And Grace suppose to cover sin...if that's the case how can one committing sin make them 'fall from grace' when Grace is the reason they their sin is covered?

I suggest reading Galations 3...good chapter that one ;) Certainly puts the term 'falling from Grace' in it's proper context.

 

[Solo]

"Falling from Grace" is a term used when describing people who chose to follow the law and do works to get to heaven. It does not describe people who sin since EVERYONE sins. And Grace suppose to cover sin...if that's the case how can one committing sin make them 'fall from grace' when Grace is the reason they their sin is covered?

I suggest reading Galations 3...good chapter that one ;) Certainly puts the term 'falling from Grace' in it's proper context.

Exactly! Great post.

 

[thessalonian]

"Falling from Grace" is a term used when describing people who chose to follow the law and do works to get to heaven. It does not describe people who sin since EVERYONE sins. And Grace suppose to cover sin...if that's the case how can one committing sin make them 'fall from grace' when Grace is the reason they their sin is covered?

I suggest reading Galations 3...good chapter that one ;) Certainly puts the term 'falling from Grace' in it's proper context.

Where do you think I got the term. I am standing under a tree. Now tell me how did I get there. Oh my, I must have fallen even though I was never in the tree? Shall we make God's word out to be silly so that we can hold to our doctines?

 

[thessalonian]

"Falling from Grace" is a term used when describing people who chose to follow the law and do works to get to heaven. It does not describe people who sin since EVERYONE sins. And Grace suppose to cover sin...if that's the case how can one committing sin make them 'fall from grace' when Grace is the reason they their sin is covered?

I suggest reading Galations 3...good chapter that one ;) Certainly puts the term 'falling from Grace' in it's proper context.

Exactly! Great post.

See my post above. People are very open to what they want to hear. Anything that allows your mind to feel good where it is at is a good answer. His answer falls very short and you know it. You can't fall from a tree if you were never in it. You may be on the ground where you would have been had you fallen, but you cannot fall. It makes the words of scriopture out to be silly. Noone would say that they have fallen from what they were never in.

Here are a few more verses to obvuscate.

Jude 1

22: And convince some, who doubt;
23: save some, by snatching them out of the fire; on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
24: Now to him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you without blemish before the presence of his glory with rejoicing,

Does falling here mean never were in? Not if you read the whole context. Read the two verses before it.

20: But you, beloved, build yourselves up on your most holy faith; pray in the Holy Spirit;
21: keep yourselves in the love of God; wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.


How can they keep themselves in what they are not in? It is clear that he is talking to these ones when he says "KEEP YOU FROM FALLING".

2 Peter 1

10: Therefore, brethren, be the more zealous to confirm your call and election, for if you do this you will never fall;

Hmm? Brethern aren't in grace, so that when the fall they didn't really fall?

There are others but I will leave it at these.

 

[thessalonian]

"Falling from Grace" is a term used when describing people who chose to follow the law and do works to get to heaven. It does not describe people who sin since EVERYONE sins. And Grace suppose to cover sin...if that's the case how can one committing sin make them 'fall from grace' when Grace is the reason they their sin is covered?

One must have a repentent heart and a resolve not to sin any more for grace to cover a sin. Jesus said to the woman in adultery. Go and sin no more. In Romans 6 Paul says we must not continue in sin. Yes, we all sin but we must strive to overcome it, knowing that Chrsit gives us power over our sins, so that we need not be enslaved by them any longer. Here is what happens if we yeild to the sin in our lives:

Romans 11
[19] You will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
[20] That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast only through faith. So do not become proud, but stand in awe.
[21] For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.
[22] Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.

 

[thessalonian]

One that continued in sin at Corinth was rebuked by Paul in that he gave commandment that such a one be turned over to satan so that his flesh would be destroyed but that his spirit would be saved in the Day of the Lord, Jesus.

Are you saying that this man was saved? You really need to read the whole chapter.

1 Cor 5
[11] But rather I wrote to you not to associate with any one who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or robber -- not even to eat with such a one.
[12] For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?
[13] God judges those outside. "Drive out the wicked person from among you."

The wicked do not go to heaven. So clearly the context is to cause the man to repent of his evil. That is how he will be saved.

After these verses settled into my mind, along with many others, I began reading the letters to the seven churches in Revelation. I was convinced that the life of a believer is one of constant spiritual growth, repentance, more growth, more repentance, more growth, more repentance, and on and on.

Sounds pretty Catholic to me. I agree.