Is The "he" of Daniel 9:27 Our Lord Jesus?

[veteran]

Some here are misinterpreting the person in Dan.9:27 who confirms a covenant for "one week" (7 years), and causes the daily sacrifice to end and sets up the abomination of desolation as being our Lord Jesus. They're doing that to try and prove that final symbolic "one week" was fulfilled in Christ's first coming, simply because they haven't understood how God's Word shows a prophecy can have a gap of time before being completed.

God's Word nowhere states that a prophetic timeline has to happen concurrently. Instead, our Lord Jesus Himself showed in Luke 4 how a prophecy can have a huge gap of time separating its condition of fulfillment.

Luke 4:17-21
17 And there was delivered unto Him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written,
18 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord."
20 And He closed the book, and He gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on Him.
21 And He began to say unto them, "This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears."
(KJV)


Isa 61:1-2
1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;(KJV)

Check me out to see if I'm wrong on that. Compare that Isaiah 61 Scripture our Lord Jesus read in Luke 4. For those who can read, they'll discover our Lord Jesus did NOT finish reading the very last part I marked in bold. Instead, He closed the Book of Isaiah before that part, and declared what He read was then fulfilled at His first coming to die on the cross.

Why did He not read that last section of Isaiah 61:2 that's in bold? It's because that part is for His second coming, which is STILL future to us today!

How many years has it been since our Lord Jesus read that first section of Isaiah 61 at His first coming? Anybody?


Another example maybe?

Zech 9:9-10
9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
10 And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and His dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.
(KJV)

Surely fellow-brethren in Christ here remember our Lord Jesus sending two of His disciples to fetch an ass for Him to ride upon going into Jerusalem per Matt.21. That was the time of Zech.9:9. But Zech.9:10, that's for His future coming. How large a gap of time is that just between those two verses? Anybody?


Between Dan.9:26 and 9:27 there's a fulfillment time gap also.

 

[veteran]

Dan 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
(KJV)

It's the CONDITIONS OR EVENTS OF THE PROPHECY that determines its fulfillment, not someone's OPINION that final "one week" (7 years, not fulfilled yet) had to be concurrent right after the previous 69 weeks (which are fulfilled).

That Daniel 9:27 verse is NOT about our Lord Jesus Christ. The conditions of that "one week" prophecy is HOW we can know that. Some will say stuff like, "Oh, that was when Christ came to offer Israel the New Covenant, and they rejected Christ instead and had Him crucified." NO, it isn't.

Note what that "he" of Dan.9:27 does during that symbolic "one week" (7 years). He confirms a covenant for a period of "one week" (7 years). Our Lord Jesus never did such a thing. Instead He offerred the New Covenant in His Blood from the time of His crucifixion to the end of this world! Yet some can't seem to count, and it's even difficult for some to admit that "one week" is about a seven year period per the 70 weeks prophecy. That would trip them up, now wouldn't it?

Did our Lord Jesus end the daily sacrifice and oblation at His first coming? NO, He did not. Sacrifices continued in Jerusalem with the temple all the way to 70 A.D. Who doesn't know 70 A.D. means 70 years AFTER Christ's death on the cross?

Did our Lord Jesus setup the abomination that maketh desolate, which involves the placing of idol worship in the temple? NO, of course He did no such thing, ever. Instead, our Lord Jesus WARNED of someone else coming after Him that would do that, per Matt.24 and Mark 13.

The Daniel 11 & 12 chapters continue with more detail about that "he" of Dan.9:27 which is to do all that. It's about the "vile person" who causes the daily sacrifice to cease, and causes the placing of the abomination that maketh desolate. This is why our Lord Jesus warned about that event in Matt.24 with that occuring inside a temple in Jerusalem, standing in the holy place. Our Lord Jesus did not do any of that.

ALL the parameters of the prophecy for that "one week" must be met, not just one part or two parts, but all of it.

 

[David505]

God's Word nowhere states that a prophetic timeline has to happen concurrently. Instead, our Lord Jesus Himself showed in Luke 4 how a prophecy can have a huge gap of time separating its condition of fulfillment...Between Dan.9:26 and 9:27 there's a fulfillment time gap also.

Thanks veteran,

I think you’re absolutely right. The idea applies the apotelesmatic tense.

Tense expresses the timing of an event. For example, one might say that Judy “threw†the ball, or Judy “throws†the ball, or Judy “will throw†the ball. These express the past, present, and future tenses.

Often, prophetic literature employs the apotelesmatic tense to associate a series of events, separated by an interval of time, within a singular conception of completion, especially in relation to the advent and second coming of the Messiah.[1]

The apotelesmatic tense harmonizes independent facets of prophetic sequence and completion within an all–encompassing perspective.

I have a related post at the Will There Be A 7 Year Tribulation? Probably Not! topic on this forum.

I also wrote an ebook about this (among other end time subjects) called The Symmetry Solution. If you’re interested, you can visit my site and click the “preview†button to open the sample pdf.[2]

[1] McClain, Alva J. Daniel’s Prophecy of the 70 Weeks. Zondervan Publishing House. Grand Rapids, MI. 1940. Page 38.

[2] http://www.thesymmetrysolution.com

 

[samuel]

Did anyone say that seeing the Prophesy of Daniel 9:27, as Messianic fulfilled the 7 years or last week. ? I don't recall that; at least I didn't.

 

[precepts]

Christian rhetoric!
Cyrus died 529 b.c., 490 yrs doesn't add up.

 

[archangel_300]

Some here are misinterpreting the person in Dan.9:27 who confirms a covenant for "one week" (7 years), and causes the daily sacrifice to end and sets up the abomination of desolation as being our Lord Jesus. They're doing that to try and prove that final symbolic "one week" was fulfilled in Christ's first coming, simply because they haven't understood how God's Word shows a prophecy can have a gap of time before being completed.

I think for once on this forum I actually agree with you here. The forces of the king which speaks blasphemies and magnifies himself above the God of gods will set up the abomination of desolation.

Daniel 11:30 So he shall return and show regard for those who forsake the holy covenant. 31 And forces[j] shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.

Daniel 11:36 Then the king shall do according to his own will: he shall exalt and magnify himself above every god, shall speak blasphemies against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the wrath has been accomplished; for what has been determined shall be done.

But again sacrifice and offering ceased in AD 70 with the destruction of Jerusalem. The seventy weeks are determined for *Daniel's people the Israelites* and the *holy city* which at the time would be the physical city of Jerusalem. The seventy weeks are not a reference from the time Jerusalem is rebuilt to the time of the great tribulation period. It is rather a reference to the time Jerusalem is rebuilt to the time it is destroyed again which occurred in AD 70. Read the passage of scripture *carefully*.

 

[precepts]

Israel was delivered by Cyrus and Darius in 539 b.c.. Cyrus, who made the decree to rebuild Jerusalem, died in 529 b.c.. The 70wks or 490 days don't apply to 70 a.d. They apply to the end of the Persia/Mede, Grecian empires, and the beginning of the Roman occupation.

 

[veteran]

God's Word nowhere states that a prophetic timeline has to happen concurrently. Instead, our Lord Jesus Himself showed in Luke 4 how a prophecy can have a huge gap of time separating its condition of fulfillment...Between Dan.9:26 and 9:27 there's a fulfillment time gap also.

Thanks veteran,

I think you’re absolutely right. The idea applies the apotelesmatic tense.

Tense expresses the timing of an event. For example, one might say that Judy “threw†the ball, or Judy “throws†the ball, or Judy “will throw†the ball. These express the past, present, and future tenses.

Often, prophetic literature employs the apotelesmatic tense to associate a series of events, separated by an interval of time, within a singular conception of completion, especially in relation to the advent and second coming of the Messiah.[1]

The apotelesmatic tense harmonizes independent facets of prophetic sequence and completion within an all–encompassing perspective.

I have a related post at the Will There Be A 7 Year Tribulation? Probably Not! topic on this forum.

I also wrote an ebook about this (among other end time subjects) called The Symmetry Solution. If you’re interested, you can visit my site and click the “preview†button to open the sample pdf.[2]

[1] McClain, Alva J. Daniel’s Prophecy of the 70 Weeks. Zondervan Publishing House. Grand Rapids, MI. 1940. Page 38.

[2] http://www.thesymmetrysolution.com

Glad someone else here understands that. I don't think one can 'rightly divide' God's Word into it's proper timelines without its grasp.

 

[veteran]

So, did the Romans confirm a covenant in 70 A.D. Jerusalem, for a period of "one week", and then in the middle of the one week take the daily sacrifice away, and instead setup an abomination inside the temple for false worship? NO.

It's those events in Dan.9:27 which stand in the way of interpreting the 70 weeks ended with the 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. The Romans were never able to sieze possession of the temple and setup the abomination like Antiochus did in 170 B.C. The temple caught fire and burned before the Romans could do that.

 

[veteran]

Another problem with seeing the 70 A.D. destruction of the Jerusalem and the temple as fulfillment of the 70 weeks prophecy concerns Christ's second coming. Problem is, parts of the 70 weeks prophecy is often isolated from other events and conditions at the expense of seeing only the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.

Those who do that often forget to go back and re-read the very first group of conditions in Dan.9:24 that are required for the 70 weeks prophecy to be fulfilled.

Dan 9:24
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
(KJV)

Has the transgression of Jerusalem been finished yet today? Clearly not, because those in control of it today don't even recognize Christ Jesus as Lord. If our Lord Jesus appeared there meek as a Lamb since, they'd still want to crucify Him all over again. And since the Daniel prophecy includes a false one setup in power in Jerusalem in the end, that reveals Jerusalem's transgression still won't be over until Christ comes to destroy that false one, which was a point Paul made in 2 Thess.2:1-4.

Is there an end of sins today in Jerusalem? Obviously not. And with another temple and sacrifices again, it'll be worse until Christ returns to end the coming false worship there.

Has our Lord made reconciliation for iniquity in Jerusalem today? Not for the orthodox Jews of Israel in control of Jerusalem today, which is where these conditions are required per the prophecy.

Has everlasting righteousness manifest in Jerusalem today? That's not about Christ's first coming either, because what did the Jews in Jerusalem do to our Lord Jesus at His first coming? There's a multitude of Old Testament and New Testament prophecy that gives the details of when and how everlasting righteousness will manifest in Jerusalem, as it involves Christ's second coming to Jerusalem, like Zechariah 14 shows. Zechariah 14 even shows the nations that are left will be required to go up to Jerusalem and worship The KING (Jesus Christ) after His return. Anyone seen that happen in Jerusalem yet?

What about the anointing of the most Holy? That's in reference to a temple in Jerusalem, in final, under Christ. That's what the subject of Ezekiel 40 forward is about concerning the Milennial Sanctuary. It's to include the manifesting of the River of waters of life and the many trees bearing monthly fruits per Ezek.47 and Rev.22.

Seeing the 70 weeks as already fulfilled in 70 A.D. by the Romans has created all sorts of false doctrines to try and make it believable, even to the point that some now refuse Christ's bodily second coming to Jerusalem as written, in favor of the falsehood that the second coming already happened, and was spiritual only. And in turn, that has created the idea that the future Milennium time after Christ's bodily return couldn't be literal. It's kind of like a domino effect. And in one hour when our Lord Jesus does return to Jerusalem, all those dominoes are going to fall. If the Jews in today's Jerusalem succeed in building another temple as planned, and start up Old Covenant sacrifices again, I'm sure there will be new dominoes added to those to try and make it fit their doctrines of men then too.

 

[archangel_300]

Another problem with seeing the 70 A.D. destruction of the Jerusalem and the temple as fulfillment of the 70 weeks prophecy concerns Christ's second coming. Problem is, parts of the 70 weeks prophecy is often isolated from other events and conditions at the expense of seeing only the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.

Those who do that often forget to go back and re-read the very first group of conditions in Dan.9:24 that are required for the 70 weeks prophecy to be fulfilled.

Dan 9:24
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
(KJV)

Has the transgression of Jerusalem been finished yet today? Clearly not, because those in control of it today don't even recognize Christ Jesus as Lord. If our Lord Jesus appeared there meek as a Lamb since, they'd still want to crucify Him all over again. And since the Daniel prophecy includes a false one setup in power in Jerusalem in the end, that reveals Jerusalem's transgression still won't be over until Christ comes to destroy that false one, which was a point Paul made in 2 Thess.2:1-4.

Is there an end of sins today in Jerusalem? Obviously not. And with another temple and sacrifices again, it'll be worse until Christ returns to end the coming false worship there.

Has our Lord made reconciliation for iniquity in Jerusalem today? Not for the orthodox Jews of Israel in control of Jerusalem today, which is where these conditions are required per the prophecy.

Has everlasting righteousness manifest in Jerusalem today? That's not about Christ's first coming either, because what did the Jews in Jerusalem do to our Lord Jesus at His first coming? There's a multitude of Old Testament and New Testament prophecy that gives the details of when and how everlasting righteousness will manifest in Jerusalem, as it involves Christ's second coming to Jerusalem, like Zechariah 14 shows. Zechariah 14 even shows the nations that are left will be required to go up to Jerusalem and worship The KING (Jesus Christ) after His return. Anyone seen that happen in Jerusalem yet?

What about the anointing of the most Holy? That's in reference to a temple in Jerusalem, in final, under Christ. That's what the subject of Ezekiel 40 forward is about concerning the Milennial Sanctuary. It's to include the manifesting of the River of waters of life and the many trees bearing monthly fruits per Ezek.47 and Rev.22.

Seeing the 70 weeks as already fulfilled in 70 A.D. by the Romans has created all sorts of false doctrines to try and make it believable, even to the point that some now refuse Christ's bodily second coming to Jerusalem as written, in favor of the falsehood that the second coming already happened, and was spiritual only. And in turn, that has created the idea that the future Milennium time after Christ's bodily return couldn't be literal. It's kind of like a domino effect. And in one hour when our Lord Jesus does return to Jerusalem, all those dominoes are going to fall. If the Jews in today's Jerusalem succeed in building another temple as planned, and start up Old Covenant sacrifices again, I'm sure there will be new dominoes added to those to try and make it fit their doctrines of men then too.

Yes Christ brought all that to pass.
When Christ was crucified that made and end to sins and brought in everlasting righteousness to God's kingdom. We're not talking about the physical city of Jerusalem here because God swears in his wrath that Israel will not enter into his rest. Bear in mind when Christ was crucified he was crucified not only for the sins of the past but the sins of the future that have not occurred yet. The crucifixion of Christ solidified this in stone so now it is a fixed done deal. There is no sin that a believer will commit in the future that was not aware of by Christ and not paid for by the crucifixion. Since the crucifixion of Christ the sting of sin and eternal death no longer have any power over God's people. They have all benn marked for redemption and all are blameless in God's sight.

Christ is the anointed Holy one. There is no future millenial reign of Christ.

 

[precepts]

Rhetoric!

 

[Shilohsfoal]

But again sacrifice and offering ceased in AD 70 with the destruction of Jerusalem. The seventy weeks are determined for *Daniel's people the Israelites* and the *holy city* which at the time would be the physical city of Jerusalem. The seventy weeks are not a reference from the time Jerusalem is rebuilt to the time of the great tribulation period. It is rather a reference to the time Jerusalem is rebuilt to the time it is destroyed again which occurred in AD 70. Read the passage of scripture *carefully*.

The sacrifice and offerinmg didnt cease in 70 ad.
Those things have nothing to do with the holy covenant.They were only a shadow of things pertaining to the holy covenant.If you think sheeps blood can make you holy then I could see how you might believe that was the holy covenant.

 

[archangel_300]

Israel was delivered by Cyrus and Darius in 539 b.c.. Cyrus, who made the decree to rebuild Jerusalem, died in 529 b.c.. The 70wks or 490 days don't apply to 70 a.d. They apply to the end of the Persia/Mede, Grecian empires, and the beginning of the Roman occupation.

I'm willing to hear your argument.

But I have a question..
Daniel 9:26 “ And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

The city and the sanctuary mentioned here refer to the city of Jerusalem??

 

[archangel_300]

The sacrifice and offerinmg didnt cease in 70 ad.
Those things have nothing to do with the holy covenant.They were only a shadow of things pertaining to the holy covenant.If you think sheeps blood can make you holy then I could see how you might believe that was the holy covenant.

I'm also willing to hear your side.

And I also have a question for you. Let's take a look at the passage below:

Daniel 11:30 "...So he shall return and show regard for those who forsake the holy covenant. 31 And forces[j] shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.

The forces of the northern king will take away the "daily sacrifices".
Isn't this a reference to the evening and morning sacrifices?

Numbers 28:3 “And you shall say to them, ‘This is the offering made by fire which you shall offer to the LORD: two male lambs in their first year without blemish, day by day, as a regular burnt offering. 4 The one lamb you shall offer in the morning, the other lamb you shall offer in the evening,

2 Chronicles 13:11
And they burn to the LORD every morning and every evening burnt sacrifices and sweet incense; they also set the showbread in order on the pure gold table, and the lampstand of gold with its lamps to burn every evening; for we keep the command of the LORD our God, but you have forsaken Him.

 

[precepts]

archangel_300's

I'm willing to hear your argument.

But I have a question..
Daniel 9:26 “ And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

The sanctuary is not the temple. There was an Egyptian/Athenian coalition that aided the Egyptians in revolting against Artaxerxes I in 455 b.c., the reason for Nehemiah's rebuilding (444 b.c.) in the 20th yr of Artaxerxes I.

 

[veteran]

Yes Christ brought all that to pass.
When Christ was crucified that made and end to sins and brought in everlasting righteousness to God's kingdom. We're not talking about the physical city of Jerusalem here because God swears in his wrath that Israel will not enter into his rest. Bear in mind when Christ was crucified he was crucified not only for the sins of the past but the sins of the future that have not occurred yet. The crucifixion of Christ solidified this in stone so now it is a fixed done deal. There is no sin that a believer will commit in the future that was not aware of by Christ and not paid for by the crucifixion. Since the crucifixion of Christ the sting of sin and eternal death no longer have any power over God's people. They have all benn marked for redemption and all are blameless in God's sight.

Christ is the anointed Holy one. There is no future millenial reign of Christ.

Uh, no, not all the events given in Dan.9:24 have been fulfilled yet.

The prophecy is specifically about Jerusalem ("thy holy city") and Daniel's people ("thy people"). So YES, the prophecy IS talking about physical Jerusalem and the flesh seed of Israel. There's OT Scripture where God promised He is going to restore the saved of Israel back to their original inheritances He first gave their fathers (like Ezek.37; Ezek.47-48, etc.) That's pointing to the remnant of flesh Israel Paul taught about in Romans 11:1-5. No man is going to change God's promise on that, regardless of how men's doctrines try to sideways spiritualize it away.

And your last part is the 'once saved, always saved' doctrine. Rom.3 says our baptism in Christ is for "sins that are past". Per 1 John 1, we still are to confess our sins afterwards to remain in Christ. John was not speaking to unbelievers there.

 

[precepts]

veteran's

There's OT Scripture where God promised He is going to restore the saved of Israel back to their original inheritances He first gave their fathers (like Ezek.37; Ezek.47-48, etc.) That's pointing to the remnant of flesh Israel Paul taught about in Romans 11:1-5. No man is going to change God's promise on that, regardless of how men's doctrines try to sideways spiritualize it away.

Wow! It's amazing how people ignore the facts. The verses you're quoting were before the Babylon exodus which was fulfilled by the rebuilding and occupation of Jerusalem after the exodus. Paul's reference is to the heavenly Jerusalem and the heavenly Israel. When God mentioned in the old that they would not be uprooted after they were replanted, it was two-fold, it was after the heavenly attack on the heavenly Jerusalem. What happened on earth happened in heaven, the beast being Nebuchadnezzar. Go figure.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

The sacrifice and offerinmg didnt cease in 70 ad.
Those things have nothing to do with the holy covenant.They were only a shadow of things pertaining to the holy covenant.If you think sheeps blood can make you holy then I could see how you might believe that was the holy covenant.

I'm also willing to hear your side.

And I also have a question for you. Let's take a look at the passage below:

Daniel 11:30 "...So he shall return and show regard for those who forsake the holy covenant. 31 And forces[j] shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.

The forces of the northern king will take away the "daily sacrifices".
Isn't this a reference to the evening and morning sacrifices?

Numbers 28:3 “And you shall say to them, ‘This is the offering made by fire which you shall offer to the LORD: two male lambs in their first year without blemish, day by day, as a regular burnt offering. 4 The one lamb you shall offer in the morning, the other lamb you shall offer in the evening,

2 Chronicles 13:11
And they burn to the LORD every morning and every evening burnt sacrifices and sweet incense; they also set the showbread in order on the pure gold table, and the lampstand of gold with its lamps to burn every evening; for we keep the command of the LORD our God, but you have forsaken Him.

Its a reference to the daily sacrifice ,yes.But those sacrifices were only a shadow of things to come.
Do you really believe a friend of those who forsake the holy covenant would take away the traditions they would like to have?No NO.This king of the north is against the holy covenant,not the shadow of the holy covenant.This man is against Christ.He doesnt want to take away the traditions of men.Like the pharisees,he wants to stop the gospel.He wants to remove Christ from the promised land.
Not much different than the orthodox jews in Judea today would like to get rid of those pesky christians.Those who do wickedly against the holy covenant= orthodox jews.


Keep in mind.Those who forsake the holy covenant read the book of Daniel as well as you.They probably believe they can understand it better than you too.But how is it the wise will understand where the wicked can not?How do those who know thier God understand where those who do wickedly against the covenant can not?How would a chistian understand what an orthodox jew can not?


Daniel 11;32
And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries;but the people that do know thier God shall be strong,and do exploits.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Daniel 12;10
Many shall be purified,and made white,and tried;but the wicked shall do wickedly and none of the wicked shall understand,but the wise shall understand.


If you believe the abomination of desolation shall stand in a temple made by the jews ,
And if you believe the daily sacrifice are people offering up sheep ,
How are you beliefs any different than the wicked people who deny Christ?
How would you be able to understand what those antichrist jews can not?

Do you really believe this book is written so that those who deny the Son of God will be able to understand it?If even one of those orthodox jews understood what the daily sacrifice is when it is taken away then they would have made God a lier because the word of God says NONE of the wicked shall understand.