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Is the vaccine effective?
- Thread starter Serving Zion
- Start date
Doesn't really matter what you catch anymore. They will say covid killed you.
I sleep just fine. No vaccine. No booster. No mask. No covid induced paranoia.
Quantrill
You can get all the boosters you want. You can believe all this covid propaganda you want. No one is stopping you.
It doesn't matter what you die of. They will say covid killed you.
Quantrill
And yet, you're wrong.
[ACMP=reminder]
Emotions have been running pretty high here. Please, share your viewpoint without trying so hard to overshadow the opposition to your point. Present facts and try to leave your emotions out of it. Name calling, labeling, and the like are not going to continue to be tolerated and I'm not going to go back to determine who did it first. I will judge beginning with the next post.
[/ACMP]
Emotions have been running pretty high here. Please, share your viewpoint without trying so hard to overshadow the opposition to your point. Present facts and try to leave your emotions out of it. Name calling, labeling, and the like are not going to continue to be tolerated and I'm not going to go back to determine who did it first. I will judge beginning with the next post.
[/ACMP]
Milk-Drops
Member
Milk-Drops
Member
What is the likelihood of dieing from a vaccine side effect?
There is a potential risk that may not have shown up yet. As with any drug/vaccine there is an inherent risk to the recipients but with these vaccines for Covid-19, the risks could still be greater than normal. Those that are hesitant to submit to the vaccines are not necessarily anti-vaxers. I resisted until about a month ago when I finally allowed my doctor to talk me into it but I still do not support mandated vaccination for Covid.
It should be noted that the vaccines that have been used as a preventive measure against Covid-19 are employing new technology. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines employ mRNA technology, which is completely new and never been used on humans before. The J&J vaccine employs viral vector technology, which has been used in veterinary applications for a few years and has been used in other countries for treatment of ebola outbreaks, has not been fully FDA approved for human use in the US.
With the exception of the Pfizer vaccine, these vaccines are being employed under the authority of the Emergency Use Authorization of the FDA. The Pfizer vaccine received full FDA approval in August of 2021 but pay attention to the time frames outlined below and remember, it can take time for nasty side effects to show up. Many of the invasive species that are now problematic here in the US were introduced for the benefit of humans with inadequate forethought and now have become a problem. Failure to exercise due diligence and rushing approval could prove to not be the most intelligent thing to do.
The following information in italics comes directly from the FDA website outlining the typical process for obtaining full FDA approval. Bolt type is my added emphasis.
After completing the preclinical development phase with good results, the drug sponsor submits an application to obtain permission to move forward with the clinical phase where it is tested on human subjects.
This step typically takes about 2 years to complete (source: FDA Approval Process reviewed by Leigh Ann Anderson, PharmD). If step 2 of this phase shows promise then the process moves on to step 3.
This step typically takes 3 years to complete (source: FDA Approval Process reviewed by Leigh Ann Anderson, PharmD).
Once the drug/vaccine makes it to this point, the remaining process steps involve labeling, application for approval, application review, manufacturing facility inspection, post-marketing follow-up, and on-going monitoring and assessment.
Typically the clinical phase progresses in successive steps with each step involving significantly more test subjects to allow time for subsequent side effects and complications to present themselves but, because of the EUA authorization, the drugs have been administered to millions and so all three steps of the clinical phase were considered employed simultaneously and therein lies the risk as I see it.
Even with all three clinical test phases administered simultaneously, it typically should have taken about 3 years to complete. We’ve been using these vaccines for less than 1 year since beginning the clinical trial phase of the process when typically it takes about 6 years to complete the clinical trials before submitting an application for FDA approval. There is a level of risk that we have accepted without doing our due diligence to be reasonably certain there won’t be complications that we haven’t even been made aware of yet.
For example, since the mRNA technology is working at the cellular level, how do we know with assured confidence that these vaccines won’t develop tendencies toward some kind of cancer or something worse?
It is for this reason we, the “test subjects,” should be allowed to make the decision for ourselves whether or not we are willing to take that risk. How many of us would be so complacent to be ordered to subject ourselves to new drug testing against our will? For those who have stepped up, more power to you but it is not right to verbally assault the rest that are not so willing.
It should be noted that the vaccines that have been used as a preventive measure against Covid-19 are employing new technology. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines employ mRNA technology, which is completely new and never been used on humans before. The J&J vaccine employs viral vector technology, which has been used in veterinary applications for a few years and has been used in other countries for treatment of ebola outbreaks, has not been fully FDA approved for human use in the US.
With the exception of the Pfizer vaccine, these vaccines are being employed under the authority of the Emergency Use Authorization of the FDA. The Pfizer vaccine received full FDA approval in August of 2021 but pay attention to the time frames outlined below and remember, it can take time for nasty side effects to show up. Many of the invasive species that are now problematic here in the US were introduced for the benefit of humans with inadequate forethought and now have become a problem. Failure to exercise due diligence and rushing approval could prove to not be the most intelligent thing to do.
The following information in italics comes directly from the FDA website outlining the typical process for obtaining full FDA approval. Bolt type is my added emphasis.
- Preclinical development and testing.
- Drug sponsor develops a new drug compound and seeks to have it approved by the FDA in the United State.
- Sponsor must test new drug on animals for toxicity. Multiple species are used to gather basic information on the safety and efficacy of the compound being tested/researched.
- The sponsor submits an Investigational New Drug (IND) application to FDA based on the results from initial testing that include the drug's composition and manufacturing and develops a plan for testing the drug on humans.
After completing the preclinical development phase with good results, the drug sponsor submits an application to obtain permission to move forward with the clinical phase where it is tested on human subjects.
- Clinical phase
- 20-80 - the typical number of healthy volunteers used in phase 1; this phase emphasizes safety. The goal here in this phase is to determine what the drug's most frequent side effects are and, often, how the drug is metabolized an excreted.
- 100's - the typical number of patients used in phase 2; this phase emphasizes effectiveness. The goal is to obtain preliminary data on whether the drug works in people who have certain diseases or conditions. For controlled trials, patients receiving the drug are compared with similar patients receiving a different treatment - usually a placebo or different drug. Safety continues to be evaluated and short-term sides effects are studied.
- 1000's - the typical number of patients used in phase 3. These studies gather more information about safety and effectiveness, study different populations and different dosages, and uses the drug in combination with other drugs.
Once the drug/vaccine makes it to this point, the remaining process steps involve labeling, application for approval, application review, manufacturing facility inspection, post-marketing follow-up, and on-going monitoring and assessment.
Typically the clinical phase progresses in successive steps with each step involving significantly more test subjects to allow time for subsequent side effects and complications to present themselves but, because of the EUA authorization, the drugs have been administered to millions and so all three steps of the clinical phase were considered employed simultaneously and therein lies the risk as I see it.
Even with all three clinical test phases administered simultaneously, it typically should have taken about 3 years to complete. We’ve been using these vaccines for less than 1 year since beginning the clinical trial phase of the process when typically it takes about 6 years to complete the clinical trials before submitting an application for FDA approval. There is a level of risk that we have accepted without doing our due diligence to be reasonably certain there won’t be complications that we haven’t even been made aware of yet.
For example, since the mRNA technology is working at the cellular level, how do we know with assured confidence that these vaccines won’t develop tendencies toward some kind of cancer or something worse?
It is for this reason we, the “test subjects,” should be allowed to make the decision for ourselves whether or not we are willing to take that risk. How many of us would be so complacent to be ordered to subject ourselves to new drug testing against our will? For those who have stepped up, more power to you but it is not right to verbally assault the rest that are not so willing.
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Maybe, maybe not. What the evidence does suggest is that those who are fully vaccinated have a lesser chance of becoming seriously ill from the virus but because the vaccines and natural immunity both wear off over time, much depends on how long ago one has been vaccinated or had been infected. Here's what I experienced in the last month.
I submitted to the Pfizer vaccine on Tuesday, September 14. I was also given the Prevnar 13 vaccine in my other arm on that same day. Long story short, I began to experience light symptoms the day afterwards and since the side effects from both of those vaccines, which can last for a few days, included fatigue, body aches, and fever I just figured that's what it was.
Over the course of the next week and due to a little investigative work I was able to determine that I was actually infected with Covid the day I received my vaccinations and I spread the virus to my wife, my neighbor, my neighbor's son, another neighbor, and my brother-in-law. All except my brother-in-law were fully vaccinated and yet they still got it and we know that my neighbor transmitted it to his wife who also was fully vaccinated and at least one other neighbor that was not vaccinated.
WIP
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/health/me...infected-persons-spouse/ar-AAOYbKR?li=AAggFp5
https://www.uab.edu/news/youcanuse/...could-anything-developed-this-quickly-be-safe
https://www.uab.edu/reporter/resour...de-effects-of-covid-vaccines-3-things-to-know
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...use-side-effects-long-after-getting-the-shot-
That the process sped up rapidly is largely due to the removal of red tape. I had a better article explaining it all but cannot seem to find it. The alternative would have been to take years, while more people would have died.
There are also potential risks with getting COVID. Some have had "long COVID" for over a year. It appears that COVID may be able to change the function of at least some cells:
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/health/me...infected-persons-spouse/ar-AAOYbKR?li=AAggFp5
But work on mRNA vaccines has been going on for quite some time.
https://www.uab.edu/news/youcanuse/...could-anything-developed-this-quickly-be-safe
Bad side effects usually show up within a couple of months or so. While it could be possible for something to show up yet, it seems quite unlikely, especially since well over 6 billion doses have been given worldwide, beginning months ago.
https://www.uab.edu/reporter/resour...de-effects-of-covid-vaccines-3-things-to-know
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...use-side-effects-long-after-getting-the-shot-
That the process sped up rapidly is largely due to the removal of red tape. I had a better article explaining it all but cannot seem to find it. The alternative would have been to take years, while more people would have died.
Milk-Drops
Member
Here is the big question then, why? Why all the smoke and mirrors when this pandemic is hurting the majority of people.?
Have you did any research to see who is getting rich during the pandemic ?
The Great Reset: If Only It Were Just a Conspiracy
Adoration
Member
Your entire post is the MOST sensible thing I have read regarding the vaccine.
I left here several months ago... very offended that I was considered UNCHRISTIAN for choosing not to vaccinate.
I still have not been vaccinated... nor will I BE... .that is my choice... and I am living with the consequences of it.
As for my reasons... I live my life as a recluse... I go to the grocery store once per week.... ensure that I arrive for opening... get my business done... wear my mask... keep my distance... check out and walk home. I have one visitor...
who is fully vaccinated... and she takes me for car rides perhaps twice a month.
I originally chose NOT to get vaccinated because of my lifestyle... but I have to admit... now that the government in Canada has mandated vaccines to even enter a restaurant... my resolve has been a bit more on the stubborn side. I will not conform to what I am being ordered to do by the govenrment.... and I still do not trust ANY information coming from ANYONE. Both sides are mass producing information to fit their own agenda.
I really feel many Christians have taken a medical issue and made it a religious one... bad enough the government has run rampant with control over this. It should be a choice.. plain and simple. Sadly... it did not turn out like that.
I understand the risks I am taking... I am NOT the problem... and IF I get covid... I will not be going to the hospital... I will simply die at home... with the Lord by my side.
I have never been fond of this place called earth.... dying is NOT a punishment to me... God knows how many days I have here on earth.... just like he knows how many hairs on my head... I do NOT live in FEAR.
Sister
CF Ambassador
Thankful to see you back, Adoration. I've been on here a long time now. I've never been called unchristian for getting the vaccination. I have been to forums who have, that have called it the mark of the beast...Just ideas drenched with fear and not of God. It is on both sides. I remember people talking about voting Trump was mark of the beast and people still call me unchristian for voting him. I only care what God says about me. I find it sad, but have fought things more in prayer these days and have a greater peace about everything. People will disagree, and there are strong Christians who believe differently in a lot of areas, but God is my strong tower and I trust in Him for my safety and protection as well as for wisdom in my decisions.
I took the phizer and so far have been one of the few who have not had covid where I work.
I had the Moderna vaccine. Was in and out of hospitals, skilled nursing facilities, dialysis centers, doctors' offices, and transported Covid-19 positive patients and like you, haven't caught covid.
I have traveled three times, twice to NY, twice to PA and on one of those trips to NJ as well. I am currently in NC for work training.
Milk-Drops
Member
Yes, I know Bezos has made a lot of money due to Amazon being the internet version of Walmart.
It's not like Bezos's labs made the virus or anything.
Milk-Drops
Member
I don't really take the greT reset scare all that seriously for the same reason I don't Builderberg or any of the other forums seriously. It's mostly captains of industry discussing where they are going from here. It's not a place where policy is made, which actually effects our societies.