Jesus fulfilled the whole law, including the Sabbath

[Heidi]

For those of you who still see the Sabbath as a work instead of as Christ's fulfillment, you do not understand the whole fulfillment of his death. He not only died for us once and for all, he fulfilled the whole law, including the sabbath. And that's why he is called "Lord of the Sabbath."

Jesus did not just die for the thieves and the murders but not the rapists and the proud. "If anyone who stumbles at just one point he is guilty of breaking the whole law." Anyone who breaks the law is a lawbreaker and is guilty.

He also didn't fulfill only some of the laws and commandments, he fulfilled all of them, including the Sabbath.

He also did not die for the things we do until 2:00 on Thursday, June 5, 2005, but everything we do throughout our earthly lives provided we come to him and ask for forgiveness for them.

So these people who try to "Keep" the law are wasting their time. Only confession and asking for forgiveness can free us. Jesus then replaces our sins with his love and forgiveness. And that's how he takes our sins away until one day all that's left in us is the Spirit.

As Paul said; "For the law do not covet breeds all sorts of covetous desires in me." We therefore are incapable of obeying the law which is why Jesus died for us. He has now become our sacrifice which is why we come to him for rest instead of taking a day off of Godly or ungodly work every week. We are free in Christ jesus but the jews and pharisees are still slaves to works.

 

[guibox]

For those of you who still see the Sabbath as a work instead of as Christ's fulfillment, you do not understand the whole fulfillment of his death. He not only died for us once and for all, he fulfilled the whole law, including the sabbath. And that's why he is called "Lord of the Sabbath."

No, He is called Lord of the Sabbath because He created all things and the Sabbath points to Him as creator. The Sabbath was created for man, outside of any works man may impose on it. As Creator and sustainer of man, the Sabbath points directly to Christ "through whom all things were created and made"

The Sabbath is called "MY holy day" by God and was 'blessed' 'made holy' and 'set apart' after Creation by the Creator. That is why Christ is Lord of the Sabbath

So these people who try to "Keep" the law are wasting their time. Only confession and asking for forgiveness can free us. Jesus then replaces our sins with his love and forgiveness. And that's how he takes our sins away until one day all that's left in us is the Spirit.

Those who try to keep the law for justification in God's eyes are wasting their time. The spirit doesn't work in a vacuum. A changed heart by the spirit's working will result in obedience. "By their fruits ye shall know them" "If ye love me, keep my commandments". You are keeping the law whether you like it or not.

We therefore are incapable of obeying the law which is why Jesus died for us. He has now become our sacrifice which is why we come to him for rest instead of taking a day off of Godly or ungodly work every week. We are free in Christ jesus but the jews and pharisees are still slaves to works.

We are incapable of keeping it to the letter by our own merits, however, if you are saying that we couldn't not kill or steal AFTER the cross as we did before, you are deceiving yourself. We are still sinful and we still need a standard to point us to the One who can cleanse us. The law couldn't save us not because the law was faulty or evil, but because following the law would eventually bring sin when we broke it and then death.

Christ came not to abolish the law, but to take away the punishment of disobedience to the law. That means that the law no longer condemns us but points us as a road map along life's road and if we do fail (as sinful man will) we are not condemned but "have an Advocate with the Father"

You grossly misunderstand the nature of the law and keeping the law as a sanctifying process and obeying the law as justification.

 

[Heidi]

For those of you who still see the Sabbath as a work instead of as Christ's fulfillment, you do not understand the whole fulfillment of his death. He not only died for us once and for all, he fulfilled the whole law, including the sabbath. And that's why he is called "Lord of the Sabbath."

No, He is called Lord of the Sabbath because He created all things and the Sabbath points to Him as creator. The Sabbath was created for man, outside of any works man may impose on it. As Creator and sustainer of man, the Sabbath points directly to Christ "through whom all things were created and made"

The Sabbath is called "MY holy day" by God and was 'blessed' 'made holy' and 'set apart' after Creation by the Creator. That is why Christ is Lord of the Sabbath

So these people who try to "Keep" the law are wasting their time. Only confession and asking for forgiveness can free us. Jesus then replaces our sins with his love and forgiveness. And that's how he takes our sins away until one day all that's left in us is the Spirit.

Those who try to keep the law for justification in God's eyes are wasting their time. The spirit doesn't work in a vacuum. A changed heart by the spirit's working will result in obedience. "By their fruits ye shall know them" "If ye love me, keep my commandments". You are keeping the law whether you like it or not.

We therefore are incapable of obeying the law which is why Jesus died for us. He has now become our sacrifice which is why we come to him for rest instead of taking a day off of Godly or ungodly work every week. We are free in Christ jesus but the jews and pharisees are still slaves to works.

We are incapable of keeping it to the letter by our own merits, however, if you are saying that we couldn't not kill or steal AFTER the cross as we did before, you are deceiving yourself. We are still sinful and we still need a standard to point us to the One who can cleanse us. The law couldn't save us not because the law was faulty or evil, but because following the law would eventually bring sin when we broke it and then death.

Christ came not to abolish the law, but to take away the punishment of disobedience to the law. That means that the law no longer condemns us but points us as a road map along life's road and if we do fail (as sinful man will) we are not condemned but "have an Advocate with the Father"

You grossly misunderstand the nature of the law and keeping the law as a sanctifying process and obeying the law as justification.

It is you who understands nothing about grace because you are under the law. But Paul tells us differently;

Romans 3:20, "Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become consious of sin."

So what in Christ's death skipped the law of the Sabbath and where is that written in the NT? :o I didn't see anywhere in Christ's writings where he said; "I have come to fulfill the law...except the Sabbath law." You have inserted that yourself, Guibox.

And if we disobey the law, what do you think the remedy is after Christ died? Asking for his forgiveness? Do you not think God is faithful and just to forgive us? :o

Do you know what Christ's sacrifice was all about? Does it mean nothing to you? Why do you think Paul said:"we are no longer under law but under grace." Do you think he was lying also? Apparently so. But I do not. You are still under the law because you have't been saved by grace yet. True Christians have. I do not think my salvation depends on me, you do. "It therefore does not depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy." And since you do not believe Paul there either, then it will do no good to quote scripture to you. When Jesus said he fulfilled the law, he fulfilled the law. I believe him. You don't. And because of that, I will not honor any more of your posts with a response. It would be pointless.

 

[Soma-Sight]

wow,

I cant believe this Sabbath madness still lingers like the musty smell of napalm after a pointless battle.....

Just follow Christ 's path, Keep the Sabbath, why is this so hard?

 

[Heidi]

wow,

I cant believe this Sabbath madness still lingers like the musty smell of napalm after a pointless battle.....

Just follow Christ 's path, Keep the Sabbath, why is this so hard?

It shouldn't have to if one believes the bible. But those who are not under grace but under law will be stuck in OT times. "Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of heaven." That's why man's own effort cannot save. Only Christ's death saves us.

 

[SputnikBoy]

For those of you who still see the Sabbath as a work instead of as Christ's fulfillment, you do not understand the whole fulfillment of his death. He not only died for us once and for all, he fulfilled the whole law, including the sabbath. And that's why he is called "Lord of the Sabbath."

*edited, to remove the flaming remark* Heidi, what does Jesus having fulfilled the Law mean to you ...? I'm asking for your definition of the word 'fulfill' as used in this particular text.

 

[Heidi]

It means that we now come to him for love and forgiveness instead of going to the law. The law cannot forgive us, only Christ can. Again as Paul said, the law only exists now to convict us of sin. It cannot free us, it only enslaves us. You need to read the whole book of Romans and the whole NT, for that matter, to understand that righteousness does not come from observing the law but through faith.

Therefore, I now go to church on Sunday because I want to,not because I'm supposed to. It is not a work. Nor do I do nothing on Sunday because I'm supposed to do nothing. I do what my heart leads me to do because my heart has been cleansed by the Holy Spirit. I do not rest from Godly or ungodly work during the week. That bible doesn't tell us to do either.

Therefore, since the Sabbath rest is now Christ, as Hebrews 4:9 tells us, "There remains then a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for anyone who enters God's rest, also rests from his own work, just as God rested from his." Jesus says; "Come to me and I will give you rest." You either believe him or you don't.

 

[Heidi]

Jesus Christ is "Lord of the Sabbath" because instead of resting from work on one day of the week, we now rest from our work once and for all through Christ's blood. There now is no more work to get to heaven. Jesus already paid the price for our lack of ability to obey the law. And that is why we are no longer under OT law. We don't have to sacrifice animals, wash our hands before we enter the temple, keep from cutting our hair, keep from eatingf unclean food, practice circumcision, do nothing on the Sabbath, and on and on, in order to be clean and holy. We are now holy through Christ's death. "It is finished."

"It does not therefore depend on man's own effort, but on God's mercy." That is grace. Once we receive that grace through the Holy Spirit that dwells inside of us, we now know what heaven is. And we can never lose that because no one can take that love out of our hearts. No one.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Jesus Christ is "Lord of the Sabbath" because instead of resting from work on one day of the week, we now rest from our work once and for all through Christ's blood. There now is no more work to get to heaven. Jesus already paid the price for our lack of ability to obey the law. And that is why we are no longer under OT law. We don't have to sacrifice animals, wash our hands before we enter the temple, keep from cutting our hair, keep from eatingf unclean food, practice circumcision, do nothing on the Sabbath, and on and on, in order to be clean and holy. We are now holy through Christ's death. "It is finished."

"It does not therefore depend on man's own effort, but on God's mercy." That is grace. Once we receive that grace through the Holy Spirit that dwells inside of us, we now know what heaven is. And we can never lose that because no one can take that love out of our hearts. No one.

"Whoever teaches to not keep the commandments shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven."
You confuse the issues at hand. Though the Law is fulfilled, Paul says that those who stole should now work, and he also says that we should not lie anymore. Further, children are instructed to obey their children. You see, the Law fulfilled is not the Law undone, but the Law actualized. The Law is not performed, but lived. Anyone who does not keep a Sabbath day is someone who will break down and die prematurely.

I object to the notion that it is absolutely necessary to keep Sabbath on Saturday, though many do. Many keep it on Sunday, and that's fine also, as long as it is kept. Not for righteousness' sake, per se, but for obedience, health, and happiness.

The Lord asked of Israel the first fruits. Giving Him our first day actually makes good sense, as does giving Him the day on which He rested.
As I said, this neither adds to or subtracts from His finished work- but it does add zoe life to the person wise enough to learn physical and emotional rest, in addition to the endless spiritual rest we have been given

 

[Heidi]

Verses please. Once you quote them, then we have have their context. Your interpretation again contradicts most of the NT. You do not understand grace at all, Orthodox, nor do you understand what your Lord did for you. You still feel it is up to you, to save yourself. Then Christ indeed did die for nothing. So tell us how many works we have to perform and what the magic number is before we lose our salvation. It won't affect me because i do not give myself credit for my salvation. I give it all to my Lord and because of that, I spend my whole life serving him.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Verses please. Once you quote them, then we have have their context. Your interpretation again contradicts most of the NT. You do not understand grace at all, Orthodox, nor do you understand what your Lord did for you. You still feel it is up to you, to save yourself. Then Christ indeed did die for nothing. So tell us how many works we have to perform and what the magic number is before we lose our salvation. It won't affect me because i do not give myself credit for my salvation. I give it all to my Lord and because of that, I spend my whole life serving him.

I'm sorry, Heidi, I don't think scripture in chapter and verse. Here they are:

"Whoever teaches to not keep the commandments shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven." Matthew 5:19
You confuse the issues at hand. Though the Law is fulfilled, Luke 24:44 Paul says that those who stole should now work Ephesians 4:28, and he also says that we should not lie anymore Colossians 3:9. Further, children are instructed to obey their parents Ephesians 6:1, Colossians 3:20. You see, the Law fulfilled is not the Law undone Matthew 5:17-18, but the Law actualized. Romans 13:9 The Law is not performed, but lived. Romans 13:10 Anyone who does not keep a Sabbath day is someone who will break down and die prematurely. (Psalm 127:2)

I object to the notion that it is absolutely necessary to keep Sabbath on Saturday, though many do. Many keep it on Sunday, and that's fine also, as long as it is kept. colossians 2:16 Not for righteousness' sake, per se, but for obedience, health, and happiness. Matthew 5:17-18

The Lord asked of Israel the first fruits. Exodus 22:29 Giving Him our first day John 20:1actually makes good sense, as does giving Him the day on which He rested.
As I said, this neither adds to or subtracts from His finished work- but it does add zoe life to the person wise enough to learn physical and emotional rest, in addition to the endless spiritual rest we have been given

Now, as you can see, there is chockloads of scripture woven into my statement. You say I do not understand grace. Perhaps I do not understand it as you do:
Grace is God's power, not ours. Romans 11:6 God's power is given to accomplish something in us and through us. Romans 12:6 1 corinthians 3:10 What we could not accomplish with our efforts, we can through grace. 2 corinthians 8:9

Grace is not a free pass to do as we wish, or not do what He commands Matthew 28:20. Grace is the power by which we accomplish the 'greater works than these' of which Christ spoke.

Lastly, you finish by clarifying that you serve Him. Why? Because it pleases Him. This is the reason for our works. Our lack thereof, or works done in pride displease Him. You cannot, therefore, elimnate works or commands from the discussion. Nor can you simply switch the discussion back over to works toward salvation, since this has already been repudiated.

 

[guibox]

There now is no more work to get to heaven. Jesus already paid the price for our lack of ability to obey the law. And that is why we are no longer under OT law.

Again, Heidi, you show a gross misunderstanding between law and grace and the OT and the NT. The law was never there to save and nobody in either the NT or the OT were ever saved by the law. The law was there as a standard of righteousness, a test of obedience for the people to follow. Merely following what God had instituted from the beginning, what His very government and foundation was based one.

The problem is that the law brought sin and death because we are condemned by the sin of breaking the law.

This is what Christ came to accomplish. He came and kept the law perfectly, not so that we don't have to obey it anymore, but that He fulfilled the JUST REQUIREMENTS of the law. Hence, the law no longer condemns us.

"Do we then make void the law through faith? Nay we establish the law!"

The law is our guide and not our condemner anymore.

Christ came to show us a different view of the law from a perspective of grace, He didn't come to take it away.

Therefore, I now go to church on Sunday because I want to,not because I'm supposed to. It is not a work. Nor do I do nothing on Sunday because I'm supposed to do nothing. I do what my heart leads me to do because my heart has been cleansed by the Holy Spirit

And this can't apply to the Sabbath? It is you who is looking at the Sabbath legalistically, Heidi, not us. We observe the Sabbath exactly as why you observe Sunday. This is the Sabbath observance that Christ trumped the Pharisee's legalism with BY HIS VERY EXAMPLE AND WORDS, Heidi.

And as Sputnik is pointing out, you are deceiving yourself by your interpretation of 'fulfill'. If Christ's coming took away the law, then He truly did abolish it. But Christ says that He has not come to 'abolish' but fulfill. If His very act of 'fulfilling' did away with the law, then it was abolished. The proper translation of 'fulfill' is 'magnify' which Christ did by writing it on our hearts as He promised in the OT.

The fact is, is that the law is still there, it just functions differently under grace and the working of the Holy Spirit. It is not us keeping it as the Isrealites failed to do "All that you say, WE will do", it is Christ keeping it through His new covenant "I will write the law on their hearts". It is Christ THROUGH us by the power of the Spirit, "that worketh obedience", that we may serve Him because we love Him "If ye love me, keep my commandments"

When Paul says that Christ 'was the end of the law' the proper Greek translation is the 'goal' of the law. Christ embodied all that the law was about.

 

[von]

It's me Heidi and we both already know that you and I don't agree. When you talk about living under the law, I don't quite understand who you are speaking of. I do not live under the law but that does not mean we don't have to do anything for Christ. That seems like an awful greedy salvation, where Christ sacrificed His life and you have to do nothing except walk around with your head in the clouds, boasting that you don't have to do anything. It was mentioned in your other post about how the apostles were martyred for Christ. How do you think they ended up that way? Not by telling people they can do whatever they want. I think from preaching "turn from your wicked ways".

Salvation is free, I don't believe Heaven is.

 

[Heidi]

There now is no more work to get to heaven. Jesus already paid the price for our lack of ability to obey the law. And that is why we are no longer under OT law.

Again, Heidi, you show a gross misunderstanding between law and grace and the OT and the NT. The law was never there to save and nobody in either the NT or the OT were ever saved by the law. The law was there as a standard of righteousness, a test of obedience for the people to follow. Merely following what God had instituted from the beginning, what His very government and foundation was based one.

The problem is that the law brought sin and death because we are condemned by the sin of breaking the law.

This is what Christ came to accomplish. He came and kept the law perfectly, not so that we don't have to obey it anymore, but that He fulfilled the JUST REQUIREMENTS of the law. Hence, the law no longer condemns us.

"Do we then make void the law through faith? Nay we establish the law!"

The law is our guide and not our condemner anymore.

Christ came to show us a different view of the law from a perspective of grace, He didn't come to take it away.

Therefore, I now go to church on Sunday because I want to,not because I'm supposed to. It is not a work. Nor do I do nothing on Sunday because I'm supposed to do nothing. I do what my heart leads me to do because my heart has been cleansed by the Holy Spirit

And this can't apply to the Sabbath? It is you who is looking at the Sabbath legalistically, Heidi, not us. We observe the Sabbath exactly as why you observe Sunday. This is the Sabbath observance that Christ trumped the Pharisee's legalism with BY HIS VERY EXAMPLE AND WORDS, Heidi.

And as Sputnik is pointing out, you are deceiving yourself by your interpretation of 'fulfill'. If Christ's coming took away the law, then He truly did abolish it. But Christ says that He has not come to 'abolish' but fulfill. If His very act of 'fulfilling' did away with the law, then it was abolished. The proper translation of 'fulfill' is 'magnify' which Christ did by writing it on our hearts as He promised in the OT.

The fact is, is that the law is still there, it just functions differently under grace and the working of the Holy Spirit. It is not us keeping it as the Isrealites failed to do "All that you say, WE will do", it is Christ keeping it through His new covenant "I will write the law on their hearts". It is Christ THROUGH us by the power of the Spirit, "that worketh obedience", that we may serve Him because we love Him "If ye love me, keep my commandments"

When Paul says that Christ 'was the end of the law' the proper Greek translation is the 'goal' of the law. Christ embodied all that the law was about.

Sorry, but your post was good up until you contradicted it by saying that we are still under Sabbath law, but not the other laws. This is of course, because your whole church depends on it!

Again, Christ did not die for only some laws and not others. He fulfilled all of them with his blood and since we now come to him for rest instead of one day a week, the Sabbath no longer applies. and that is why he is called "Lord of the Sabbath" and not Lord of the Ten Commandments" or "Lord of circumcision" or Lord of any other law. He is our rest, not Sundays.

Again, Jesus Christ is the Sabbath rest for the people of God as Hebrews 4:1-9 explains. it is you, therefore, you has a gross misunderstanidng of the Sabbath because you see it like the Jews still see it and they are not under grace but under law as you still appear to be."

And the ironic thing is, that now that I know I'm undergrace, I honor Jesus Christ everyday of the week! I do not rest from my godly work on any day of the week, nor do I practice ungodly work on any day of the week and only rest from it on one day! So those under grace are actually keeping the Sabbath much better than those who only observe it on one day of the week! But that is what grace and Christ do. They enable us to keep the law far better than observing it literally because we keep it through love everyday of the week.

But apparently, you don't go to Jesus for rest. You only rest on one day of the week. I'm sorry for you.

 

[guibox]

Again, Jesus Christ is the Sabbath rest for the people of God as Hebrews 4:1-9 explains. it is you, therefore, you has a gross misunderstanidng of the Sabbath because you see it like the Jews still see it and they are not under grace but under law as you still appear to be.".... I honor Jesus Christ everyday of the week! I do not rest from my godly work on any day of the week, nor do I practice ungodly work on any day of the week and only rest from it on one day!

I guess, ultimately, your misguided view on the Sabbath hinges on your sad interpretation of Hebrews 4, of which no amount of biblical evidence can convince you otherwise on.

Does Hebrews 4 preach a 'resting from ungodly works every day of the week'? The answer is no based on simple logic and context. The 'sabbath rest that is left behind for the people of God' is not some rest of grace but a literal sabbath keeping.

As is said by Bacchiocchi on Hebrews 4:

The literal nature of Sabbathkeeping is indicated also by the following verse which speaks of the cessation from work as representing entering into God’s rest. "For whoever enters God’s rest also ceases from his labors as God did from his" (Heb 4:10). The majority of commentators interpret the cessation from work of Hebrews 4:10 in a figurative sense as "abstention from servile work," meaning sinful activities. Thus, Christian Sabbathkeeping means not the interruption of daily work on the seventh day, but the abstention from sinful acts at all times. In other words, "New Covenant" believers experience the Sabbath rest not as a physical cessation from work on the seventh day but as a spiritual salvation rest every day.


To support this view, appeal is made to the reference in Hebrews to "dead works" (Heb 6:1; 9:14). Such a concept, however, cannot be read back into Hebrews 4:10 where a comparison is made between the divine and the human cessation from "works." It is absurd to think that God ceased from "sinful deeds." The point of the analogy is simply that as God ceased on the seventh day from His creation work, so believers are to cease on the same day from their labors. This is a simple statement of the nature of Sabbathkeeping which essentially involves cessation from works. 

Heidi, why don't you read the links here and see a thorough examination of this issue instead of a knee jerk reaction to fit preconceived notions.

I also encourage many others to do the same and not swallow the shallow interpretation of Heidi and others who haven't truly taken the time to research the Sabbath in the Bible and in the life of Christ.

If after you've read it, you don't agree, well at least you were open minded enough to try.

Paul and the Sabbath


Paul and the Law


The Sabbath and the New Covenant

 

[Heidi]

Again, Jesus Christ is the Sabbath rest for the people of God as Hebrews 4:1-9 explains. it is you, therefore, you has a gross misunderstanidng of the Sabbath because you see it like the Jews still see it and they are not under grace but under law as you still appear to be.".... I honor Jesus Christ everyday of the week! I do not rest from my godly work on any day of the week, nor do I practice ungodly work on any day of the week and only rest from it on one day!

I guess, ultimately, your misguided view on the Sabbath hinges on your sad interpretation of Hebrews 4, of which no amount of biblical evidence can convince you otherwise on.

Does Hebrews 4 preach a 'resting from ungodly works every day of the week'? The answer is no based on simple logic and context. The 'sabbath rest that is left behind for the people of God' is not some rest of grace but a literal sabbath keeping.

As is said by Bacchiocchi on Hebrews 4:

The literal nature of Sabbathkeeping is indicated also by the following verse which speaks of the cessation from work as representing entering into God’s rest. "For whoever enters God’s rest also ceases from his labors as God did from his" (Heb 4:10). The majority of commentators interpret the cessation from work of Hebrews 4:10 in a figurative sense as "abstention from servile work," meaning sinful activities. Thus, Christian Sabbathkeeping means not the interruption of daily work on the seventh day, but the abstention from sinful acts at all times. In other words, "New Covenant" believers experience the Sabbath rest not as a physical cessation from work on the seventh day but as a spiritual salvation rest every day.


To support this view, appeal is made to the reference in Hebrews to "dead works" (Heb 6:1; 9:14). Such a concept, however, cannot be read back into Hebrews 4:10 where a comparison is made between the divine and the human cessation from "works." It is absurd to think that God ceased from "sinful deeds." The point of the analogy is simply that as God ceased on the seventh day from His creation work, so believers are to cease on the same day from their labors. This is a simple statement of the nature of Sabbathkeeping which essentially involves cessation from works. 

Heidi, why don't you read the links here and see a thorough examination of this issue instead of a knee jerk reaction to fit preconceived notions.

I also encourage many others to do the same and not swallow the shallow interpretation of Heidi and others who haven't truly taken the time to research the Sabbath in the Bible and in the life of Christ.

If after you've read it, you don't agree, well at least you were open minded enough to try.

Paul and the Sabbath


Paul and the Law


The Sabbath and the New Covenant

Sorry, but not only have you misinterpredted Hebrews, you have misquoted it.

Hebrews 4:3, "And yet his work has been finished since the creation of the world."

Hebrews 4:9, "There remains, then, a Sabbath rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his."

God did not stop his work on the seventh day then resume it on Monday as you think we should do every week. He rested forever, just as we do once we enter God's rest through coming to Jesus Christ our Lord for rest. That is prescisley resting from our work just as God did from his.

So again, all you have to do is believe the bible and you will know what the truth is. You will not find the truth from people who see themselves as sholars because they are not God's word. Only the bible is. :If you look to people for God's word, then you will get as many explanations as there are people in the world. But ifd you believe the whole bible and don't contradict anything in it, you will know the truth. -)

 

[SputnikBoy]

That's a fair challenge to throw open to anyone who is actually seeking the truth on this issue, guibox. I fear, however, that there are those who have no desire to step outside their comfort zone. This is why all previous and thorough explanations of Hebrews 4 and the word 'fulfill' as used by Jesus in regard to the Law have been totally ignored.

Heidi (and Merry Menag) ...would you be willing to discuss Hebrews 4 specifically if it were presented yet again ...even if on a separate thread?

 

[Vic C.]

That's a fair challenge to throw open to anyone who is actually seeking the truth on this issue, guibox. I fear, however, that there are those who have no desire to step outside their comfort zone. This is why all previous and thorough explanations of Hebrews 4 and the word 'fulfill' as used by Jesus in regard to the Law have been totally ignored.

Heidi (and Merry Menag) ...would you be willing to discuss Hebrews 4 specifically if it were presented yet again ...even if on a separate thread?

Cool. The Bible Study Forum would be a great place to do this. :wink: :wink:

 

[Heidi]

That's a fair challenge to throw open to anyone who is actually seeking the truth on this issue, guibox. I fear, however, that there are those who have no desire to step outside their comfort zone. This is why all previous and thorough explanations of Hebrews 4 and the word 'fulfill' as used by Jesus in regard to the Law have been totally ignored.

Heidi (and Merry Menag) ...would you be willing to discuss Hebrews 4 specifically if it were presented yet again ...even if on a separate thread?

Sure.

 

[guibox]

So again, all you have to do is believe the bible and you will know what the truth is. You will not find the truth from people who see themselves as sholars because they are not God's word. Only the bible is. :If you look to people for God's word, then you will get as many explanations as there are people in the world. But ifd you believe the whole bible and don't contradict anything in it, you will know the truth. -)

And yet we are expected to merely accept your, Heidi the non-scholar, view on Hebrews 4 from a cursory reading of the chapter and a misguided effort to try and link it to creation week? Trying to read and study a scholarly approach on it that uses context, logic, and other scriptures is not 'the bible'? We shouldn't bother with it just 'read the bible'? Isn't that what has been done? Is it actually possible that you may be wrong, Heidi? Somehow we are to merely accept your views without looking at others (or that it seems to be a waste of time to do so according to you) that may shed different light on the subject?

Not only is that hypocritical but a completely irresponsible way of studying scripture and theology.

Apparently you must be afraid of truth. Read the links, Heidi (especially Paul and the Sabbath) unless you are afraid of being proved wrong.