John 10:35

[Enlightenedtruth]

If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; John 10:35 NKJV

I have had a person, and have read; that the part of this verse "the scripture cannot be broken" means that Christ affirmed the Old Testament. But I take a different meaning from the entire verse. What I see is men cannot take bits and pieces of scriptures; and thereby give those scriptures a different meaning than what was intended.

To take a word, or a few words; out of context breaks the intent of scripture. In reading all of John chapter 10, and putting that in context; I see Christ giving the pharisees, "those Godly men" by their own claim's, a lesson in how they misused the scriptures by taking bits and pieces to promote themselves above all others; whereas Christ did his Father's work to reveal the truth of himself.

The pharisees were going to stone Christ for breaking the sabbath; and there is John 8:7 about casting stones as one example.

Anyway, I'd like to ask my fellow forum members for their input? Is it ok to take bits and pieces of the scriptures; thereby giving them a different meaning or intent?

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

In additional reading; Exodus 20:8-11 it states:

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

From John chapter 10 Christ did "work" on the sabbath; if the Old Testament is 100% correct; why would Christ violate God's Command from the Book of Exodus? That would not set a very good example to the people; to say one thing then do another.

 

[Free]

Anyway, I'd like to ask my fellow forum members for their input? Is it ok to take bits and pieces of the scriptures; thereby giving them a different meaning or intent?

Never.

In additional reading; Exodus 20:8-11 it states:

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

From John chapter 10 Christ did "work" on the sabbath; if the Old Testament is 100% correct; why would Christ violate God's Command from the Book of Exodus? That would not set a very good example to the people; to say one thing then do another.

Because Jesus was God in the flesh, both truly God and truly man. The Jews knew that Jesus's claim to be the Son of God, by doing the works of his Father and claiming to be one with the Father, that he was making himself God (John 10:33). They were right but didn't believe that he actually was God, so they were going to stone him for blasphemy.

Besides, what work was Jesus doing on the Sabbath? Healing people:

Luk 13:10 Now he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the Sabbath.
Luk 13:11 And behold, there was a woman who had had a disabling spirit for eighteen years. She was bent over and could not fully straighten herself.
Luk 13:12 When Jesus saw her, he called her over and said to her, “Woman, you are freed from your disability.”
Luk 13:13 And he laid his hands on her, and immediately she was made straight, and she glorified God.
Luk 13:14 But the ruler of the synagogue, indignant because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath, said to the people, “There are six days in which work ought to be done. Come on those days and be healed, and not on the Sabbath day.”
Luk 13:15 Then the Lord answered him, “You hypocrites! Does not each of you on the Sabbath untie his ox or his donkey from the manger and lead it away to water it?
Luk 13:16 And ought not this woman, a daughter of Abraham whom Satan bound for eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the Sabbath day?”
Luk 13:17 As he said these things, all his adversaries were put to shame, and all the people rejoiced at all the glorious things that were done by him. (ESV)

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

Besides, what work was Jesus doing on the Sabbath? Healing people:

Very good, thank you. I had not got back to Luke yet; and it is interesting how one scripture can take precedent over another.
As for Christ being "God in the flesh"; I don't recall any scripture where he made that claim himself. From what I do recall, there are several places where he does speak of his Father; the one true God. Of course, God can fill any man with His power to serve His Purpose on this earth. But flesh and blood is still flesh and blood; and Christ did bleed upon the cross.

And I do agree, healing is not "technically" work as we consider it today; as long as you don't work in a hospital.

 

[Free]

Very good, thank you. I had not got back to Luke yet; and it is interesting how one scripture can take precedent over another.

Which verse has taken precedence over which other one?

As for Christ being "God in the flesh"; I don't recall any scripture where he made that claim himself. From what I do recall, there are several places where he does speak of his Father; the one true God. Of course, God can fill any man with His power to serve His Purpose on this earth. But flesh and blood is still flesh and blood; and Christ did bleed upon the cross.

Jesus claimed to be God explicitly (John 8:58) and implicitly through his works and miracles. Claiming to be the Son of God is also an implicit claim to be God. Phil 2:5-8 tell us that he was truly and fully God but chose to take on human flesh for our salvation. Being also truly human, yes, he bled and died on the cross.

Anyway, there are several ongoing discussions about that in the Trinitarian forum, so let's leave it at that.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

Jesus claimed to be God explicitly (John 8:58)

John 8:54-58

54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

I'm not seeing a proclamation of "being God"; and I know very few Christian's believe in rebirth of the soul, which would mean Christ had walked this earth before, during and after Abraham.

But I will apologize once again; I do understand so much more now of how people take a verse here; or a verse there to make their own interpretation of what is. And I do thank you for helping me with that understanding.

I have been reading some of the post in the Trinity forum thread; but how people perceive the Trinity isn't as important to me as just understanding the various views of the scriptures themselves.

 

[Free]

John 8:54-58

54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

I'm not seeing a proclamation of "being God"; and I know very few Christian's believe in rebirth of the soul,

No Christian should believe that, as that isn't biblical. First, let's look at what Jesus had already said:

Joh 8:23 He said to them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. (ESV)

Then, he says this:

Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” (ESV)

That is what God calls himself:

Exo 3:14 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” (ESV)

which would mean Christ had walked this earth before, during and after Abraham.

Not necessarily. In John 8:58, Jesus contrasts Abraham's coming into being and temporary existence with his own absolute, timeless existence, which is also what John 1:1-2 speaks of.

But I will apologize once again; I do understand so much more now of how people take a verse here; or a verse there to make their own interpretation of what is. And I do thank you for helping me with that understanding.

I have been reading some of the post in the Trinity forum thread; but how people perceive the Trinity isn't as important to me as just understanding the various views of the scriptures themselves.

We must take everything and make sense of it altogether, instead of taking one verse at a time. Greg Koukl has a saying, "Never read a Bible verse," which means that one must read the verse in context. There is the immediate context of the surrounding verses, the context of the chapter, the book, and then of the rest of the Bible. Taking things piecemeal, one verse at a time, almost always leads to error.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

We must take everything and make sense of it altogether, instead of taking one verse at a time. Greg Koukl has a saying, "Never read a Bible verse," which means that one must read the verse in context. There is the immediate context of the surrounding verses, the context of the chapter, the book, and then of the rest of the Bible. Taking things piecemeal, one verse at a time, almost always leads to error.

I do agree; but if you look further into Exodus 3:15 it says:

And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

So in Scripture God says this is my name for ever; then all of a sudden He decides that His people should call Him Jesus instead, that does not sound like the God who promotes Truth. And yes, Father can do whatever He pleases; but did He make a mistake in Exodus 3:15.

I do understand my "unorthodox Christian belief's" are offensive to most who follow the more popular belief's; but I am in no way trying to misled anyone. I have shared more truth in these forums than I have with any other in this time; part of that is wanting to understand others as my duty approaches, and part of it is to help save lives in places where I will not be physically present.

I don't want anyone to give up their Faith in God; but to question what some of these preachers are doing "in the name of God" is appropriate. Promoting "God's chosen caretaker of His planned paradise" is a bit much for me; and the people who follow "their preachers" along that path will be lost. It's just that simple; there will be no second chances for any who follow him.

 

[Free]

I do agree; but if you look further into Exodus 3:15 it says:

And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

So in Scripture God says this is my name for ever; then all of a sudden He decides that His people should call Him Jesus instead, that does not sound like the God who promotes Truth. And yes, Father can do whatever He pleases; but did He make a mistake in Exodus 3:15.

No, that is not at all the case. God’s name is YHWH, or Yahweh to make it pronounceable, as he says in Ex 3:15. Jesus is the name of the God-man, the second person of the Trinity, the Son of God, who took on human flesh by being born as a man. No sudden name change and no mistake.

I do understand my "unorthodox Christian belief's" are offensive to most who follow the more popular belief's; but I am in no way trying to misled anyone. I have shared more truth in these forums than I have with any other in this time; part of that is wanting to understand others as my duty approaches, and part of it is to help save lives in places where I will not be physically present.

You’re assuming that what you have said is true. I have yet to see where any of it lines up with the Bible.

I don't want anyone to give up their Faith in God; but to question what some of these preachers are doing "in the name of God" is appropriate. Promoting "God's chosen caretaker of His planned paradise" is a bit much for me; and the people who follow "their preachers" along that path will be lost. It's just that simple; there will be no second chances for any who follow him.

I don’t know what you’re referring to with any of this.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

No, that is not at all the case. God’s name is YHWH, or Yahweh to make it pronounceable, as he says in Ex 3:15. Jesus is the name of the God-man, the second person of the Trinity, the Son of God, who took on human flesh by being born as a man. No sudden name change and no mistake.

I do not see YHWH in Exodus 3:15; I see "Lord God" NKJV. And how does the "I am" that started this conversation fit into "Lord God" the Father, and the "God-son" Christ. Which goes back to my OP; how people take bits and pieces of the Bible to "create a truth" that just isn't there. Christ is an Angel of God; which does make him one of God's sons, but to worship him above or before God is not appropriate. And it doesn't really matter; everyone has a choice in what has come, I just hope they choose wisely.

I don’t know what you’re referring to with any of this.

There was a political ad released in the State of Iowa just before that caucus; "God's chosen one" if you believe how some of those preachers are twisting the Bible for their own narrative. Not all preachers mind you; but too many are leading their congregations down a "dark path". Again it doesn't really matter; everyone has a choice in what has come.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

God’s name is YHWH, or Yahweh to make it pronounceable, as he says in Ex 3:15

OFFICIAL KING JAMES BIBLE ONLINE

King James Bible Online: Authorized King James Version (KJV) of the Bible- the preserved and living Word of God. Includes 1611 KJV and 1769 Cambridge KJV.

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

So I did a search in the King James Bible online; it does not have YWHW or Yahweh anywhere in that Bible. If the purpose of the Bible was to give God's Law and instruction to His children; would you give such to the "children" who needed those lessons the most?
The Tribes of Israel are not what the Bible and Christians promote them to be; nothing is as it seems. The Tribes giving God a name; when He clearly said "Lord God" is His name for ever, is nonsense. All the "pagan pantheons" of old named their various god's; Egypt, Geek, Norse and so on; and the pharisees took a number of things from that, as did the Roman senator's.
If you take the Christian Bible; and try to incorporate parts the 3 Books of Judaism, what does that say about the Scriptures in the Holy Bible? Either the Old Testament and the New Testament in the Holy Bible are the right path, or Judaism is the right path. And if Judaism is the right path; why did Christ even come in the first place?

 

[Free]

I do not see YHWH in Exodus 3:15; I see "Lord God" NKJV. And how does the "I am" that started this conversation fit into "Lord God" the Father, and the "God-son" Christ.

The OT was first written in Hebrew, then translated into Greek, and eventually translated into English. What you should be seeing in the NKJV is “the LORD God,” where “the LORD” is simply the English used in place of the Hebrew word YHWH. So, you do see YHWH in Ex 3:15, and in numerous other places, you just didn’t know it.

So, God says he is “I AM” and the name he is to be called is YHWH, which is closely linked to the words I AM. When Jesus says “before Abraham was, I am,” he is claiming the identity of, or identification with, the God who revealed himself to Moses.

What this means is that Yahweh is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Which goes back to my OP; how people take bits and pieces of the Bible to "create a truth" that just isn't there.

And what does this have to do with anything I have said? Have I created a “truth” that isn’t there?

Christ is an Angel of God; which does make him one of God's sons,

Jesus is the one and only, unique Son of God (John 1:14, 18; 3:16).

but to worship him above or before God is not appropriate.

We worship Jesus because he is God; he just isn’t the Father.

There was a political ad released in the State of Iowa just before that caucus; "God's chosen one" if you believe how some of those preachers are twisting the Bible for their own narrative. Not all preachers mind you; but too many are leading their congregations down a "dark path". Again it doesn't really matter; everyone has a choice in what has come.

The mixing of politics and Christianity in the U.S. is a grievous error.

OFFICIAL KING JAMES BIBLE ONLINE

King James Bible Online: Authorized King James Version (KJV) of the Bible- the preserved and living Word of God. Includes 1611 KJV and 1769 Cambridge KJV.

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

So I did a search in the King James Bible online; it does not have YWHW or Yahweh anywhere in that Bible. If the purpose of the Bible was to give God's Law and instruction to His children; would you give such to the "children" who needed those lessons the most?
The Tribes of Israel are not what the Bible and Christians promote them to be; nothing is as it seems. The Tribes giving God a name; when He clearly said "Lord God" is His name for ever, is nonsense. All the "pagan pantheons" of old named their various god's; Egypt, Geek, Norse and so on; and the pharisees took a number of things from that, as did the Roman senator's.

I’ve shown the above to be incorrect.

If you take the Christian Bible; and try to incorporate parts the 3 Books of Judaism, what does that say about the Scriptures in the Holy Bible? Either the Old Testament and the New Testament in the Holy Bible are the right path, or Judaism is the right path.

I don’t understand what you’re saying here.

And if Judaism is the right path; why did Christ even come in the first place?

If you are asking that question then you do not understand Christianity at all, nor Judaism.

 

[Tulipbee]

If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; John 10:35 NKJV

I have had a person, and have read; that the part of this verse "the scripture cannot be broken" means that Christ affirmed the Old Testament. But I take a different meaning from the entire verse. What I see is men cannot take bits and pieces of scriptures; and thereby give those scriptures a different meaning than what was intended.

To take a word, or a few words; out of context breaks the intent of scripture. In reading all of John chapter 10, and putting that in context; I see Christ giving the pharisees, "those Godly men" by their own claim's, a lesson in how they misused the scriptures by taking bits and pieces to promote themselves above all others; whereas Christ did his Father's work to reveal the truth of himself.

The pharisees were going to stone Christ for breaking the sabbath; and there is John 8:7 about casting stones as one example.

Anyway, I'd like to ask my fellow forum members for their input? Is it ok to take bits and pieces of the scriptures; thereby giving them a different meaning or intent?

Ah, Enlightenedtruth, the cosmic comedian in the theater of biblical banter, shining a celestial spotlight on the scriptural stage! Let's unravel the divine comedy in John 10:35, where words are wielded like cosmic swords, slicing through the misinterpretation fog.
Picture this: The cosmic courtroom of interpretation, where Christ, the celestial Judge, drops the mic with "the scripture cannot be broken." It's like a divine warning sign, cautioning against the cosmic crime of cherry-picking verses. The Pharisees, those self-proclaimed Godly men, are caught in the act of scriptural pilfering.
Enlightenedtruth steps into the cosmic spotlight, presenting a comedy of errors – the Pharisees misusing scripture like celestial jigsaw puzzles, rearranging divine words for self-promotion. It's as if they're playing biblical Tetris, trying to fit their narrative into the sacred mosaic.
And here's the punchline: Is it okay to play cosmic Scrabble with scriptures, rearranging the divine lexicon for personal gain? The celestial jury awaits, pondering the verdict on this cosmic query.
In the grand theater of biblical interpretation, where words echo through cosmic corridors, Enlightenedtruth raises the curtain on a celestial comedy – a lesson in avoiding the scriptural mix-and-match game. Let the laughter of divine wisdom resonate, for in the cosmic drama of interpretation, the scripture cannot be broken, but it sure can be mischievously rearranged!

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

In the grand theater of biblical interpretation, where words echo through cosmic corridors, Enlightenedtruth raises the curtain on a celestial comedy – a lesson in avoiding the scriptural mix-and-match game. Let the laughter of divine wisdom resonate, for in the cosmic drama of interpretation, the scripture cannot be broken, but it sure can be mischievously rearranged!

LOL; thank you so much for that. Nothing I have said is for personal gain in all the post I have made. And I don't expect anyone to believe anything I say; I'm just offering information from various things I know. What anyone makes of any of it; is entirely up to them.
God's Judgement is here; whether anyone wants to believe it or not. That Judgement is not what most people seem to want to believe; but as the saying goes "ignorance is bliss". And this is all about free will; and the choices people will make.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

The OT was first written in Hebrew, then translated into Greek, and eventually translated into English. What you should be seeing in the NKJV is “the LORD God,” where “the LORD” is simply the English used in place of the Hebrew word YHWH. So, you do see YHWH in Ex 3:15, and in numerous other places, you just didn’t know it.

You are correct; I do not know everything. I do not know Hebrew; and have no interest in learning it. So I will accept that what you said was true; and will apologize for thinking it was not "what was written".

 

[hawkman]

Let's unravel the divine comedy in John 10:35, where words are wielded like cosmic swords, slicing through the misinterpretation fog.

Where is the "comedy" Tulipbee ?

 

[Tulipbee]

Where is the "comedy" Tulipbee ?

Ah, Hawkman, the cosmic guardian of serious theological business, stepping into the divine comedy club of John 10:35! Picture this cosmic showdown – words like celestial swords, slicing through the interpretative fog like a divine lightsaber duel.

Now, you're on the lookout for the divine comedy in John 10:35. Well, my theological friend, the comedy is hidden in the cosmic dance of interpretation. It's like a divine sitcom where words jostle for attention, and the audience (that's us!) tries to decipher the heavenly punchlines.

Imagine the religious leaders in the celestial audience scratching their cosmic heads, wondering if they accidentally tuned into a theological stand-up instead of the usual scriptural discourse. Meanwhile, Jesus, the ultimate cosmic comedian, drops truth bombs with a celestial wink.

So, Hawkman, the comedy isn't just in the words but in the interpretative dance around them. It's like a divine improv session where everyone's trying to catch the cosmic humor between the lines. In the grand comedy of John 10:35, the laughs are in the nuances, my celestial comrade!

 

[Tulipbee]

LOL; thank you so much for that. Nothing I have said is for personal gain in all the post I have made. And I don't expect anyone to believe anything I say; I'm just offering information from various things I know. What anyone makes of any of it; is entirely up to them.
God's Judgement is here; whether anyone wants to believe it or not. That Judgement is not what most people seem to want to believe; but as the saying goes "ignorance is bliss". And this is all about free will; and the choices people will make.

Ah, Enlightenedtruth, the cosmic jester in the grand theater of biblical banter, where words twirl in celestial pirouettes! In this divine comedy, you've taken center stage, offering a symphony of information like a cosmic maestro.

LOL indeed! Your disclaimer about not seeking personal gain in this celestial performance adds a touch of humility to the cosmic drama. It's like you're handing out wisdom cookies, saying, "Take a nibble if you please, but it's a cosmic buffet, and your beliefs are the main course."

And the mention of God's Judgment, well, that's your comedic twist, isn't it? It's like you've sprinkled a dash of eschatological spice into the theological soup, inviting everyone to taste the flavors of free will and choices.

The cosmic laughter echoes through the corridors of interpretation as you dance on the edge of belief and free will. It's a divine stand-up where you play the jester, tossing nuggets of cosmic wisdom into the audience, leaving them to decide whether to applaud or question.

So, Enlightenedtruth, keep LOL-ing in the cosmic theater of interpretation. After all, in this divine comedy, the laughter is the celestial glue that binds the cosmic pages of interpretation together!

 

[JLB]

In additional reading; Exodus 20:8-11 it states:

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

From John chapter 10 Christ did "work" on the sabbath; if the Old Testament is 100% correct; why would Christ violate God's Command from the Book of Exodus? That would not set a very good example to the people; to say one thing then do another.

I like what you have to say here.

However, what specifically do you mean by the Old Testament?

I think you mean, the law of Moses.




JLB

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

So, Enlightenedtruth, keep LOL-ing in the cosmic theater of interpretation. After all, in this divine comedy, the laughter is the celestial glue that binds the cosmic pages of interpretation together!

I do like your view on things, and your attitude. We must all laugh; for to know and accept the truth of us would make every man weep. Such is life.

For the information that I offer; I would not call that wisdom. That would be for a wise man to discern and embrace the truth.

My motives, my purpose; is to simply save lives where that is possible. While there are more than a few who will wake for this; none of us can be in all places at all times. And Father's direct involvement with the people will be limited; this is something we, "his children" must figure out and do. For those who endure.