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Juctice and Mercy?

Lady Terra

Member
Where does Justice and Mercy have a balance? I know how it feels to see WRONG! Sometimes I don't see where to draw the line. This has to be the biggest stump in my Christian walk. Upholding morals vs. forgiveness. How does one sort it all out? How people error and still say they cling to a Spiritual walk? I know a duck when I see one. I know a snake when I see one. A human has a conscience and a heart but, sometimes will act out animalistic flaws that are contrary to the Kingdome of God. How do we sort it all out?
 
life is devastatingly wicked and evil on earth until Yeshua returns, more and more as in the days of Noah, and Yeshua said it would be the hardest days to live ever.
but be of good cheer ! (a surprise, and an impossibility in human terms/(flesh) for man)
because He overcame the world. HE gives His peace, right in the midst of holocaust, His Peace. and Joy, and Righteousness. and He Promises to show us how to live, and , well, just everything that is needed, including NOT fearing torture, imprisonment and death.

look up trusting and relying in the New Testament (and Old for that matter - Yhwh is always Faithful).

humans act out of their nature. unregenerate or born again. and not just born again >> there's more >>

see if this helps (essentials to live as overcomers, the cross, and the Spirit)
 
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life is devastatingly wicked and evil on earth until Yeshua returns, more and more as in the days of Noah, and Yeshua said it would be the hardest days to live ever.
but be of good cheer ! (a surprise, and an impossibility in human terms/(flesh) for man)
because He overcame the world. HE gives His peace, right in the midst of holocaust, His Peace. and Joy, and Righteousness. and He Promises to show us how to live, and , well, just everything that is needed, including NOT fearing torture, imprisonment and death.

look up trusting and relying in the New Testament (and Old for that matter - Yhwh is always Faithful).

humans act out of their nature. unregenerate or born again. and not just born again >> there's more >>

see if this helps (essentials to live as overcomers, the cross, and the Spirit)
Thank You. I will look it up.
 
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Where does Justice and Mercy have a balance? I know how it feels to see WRONG! Sometimes I don't see where to draw the line. This has to be the biggest stump in my Christian walk. Upholding morals vs. forgiveness. How does one sort it all out? How people error and still say they cling to a Spiritual walk? I know a duck when I see one. I know a snake when I see one. A human has a conscience and a heart but, sometimes will act out animalistic flaws that are contrary to the Kingdome of God. How do we sort it all out?

Justice and Mercy can only have a balance that is determined by Faith. Justice is defined be a Law: commit adultery, stone her to death. But Mercy can not be determined by a law, but rather is an act of Faith that works in spite of the law. Through the gospels Jesus commanded us to forgive one another our sins. To be merciful toward each other as God is merciful with us. Jesus was our example showing first the Mercy of God by healing the sick, making the blind to see and the lame to walk, and declaring the forgiveness of sin. And though he spoke of justice and the judgement of Jerusalem, his final act on the cross demonstrated the Mercy of God that was offered first to me before I ever sought it for myself.

While every situation presents a different face or a different set of circumstance, I believe we should always begin with a Merciful spirit first, and then allow justice to be weighted on accordingly. So if I were in a playground and saw before me a teeter totter, I would insist that Mercy sit down first on the one end so the justice may be weighted out accordingly; For if justice sits first at the seat, then there is no room for mercy.

I think the laws of this country endeavor to hold up that ideal when we say justice is blind, or innocent until proven guilty; but as we can see by watching recent events unfold before our very eyes, we are reminded that whether it be real or only perceived, that left to the spirit of man alone, Justice is most indeed Not Blind, nor does it presume innocence before guilt.
 
I think the problem with humankind is that we confuse justice with revenge.
 
We live in the age of knowing good and evil. My love for my fellow man is not increasing. It is dwindling. I find myself wanting to withdraw from people more and more as I learn of their hearts and mind sets. To love as Christ loved? That is HUGE.
 
We live in the age of knowing good and evil. My love for my fellow man is not increasing. It is dwindling. I find myself wanting to withdraw from people more and more as I learn of their hearts and mind sets. To love as Christ loved? That is HUGE.
Reminds me of a bumper sticker I once saw theat read "The more I get to know people, the more I love my dog." :biggrin2

In all seriousness, you make a sad observation here. Sad but perhaps true in many ways.
 
Given their evil ways, Jonah believed it would have been just for God to destroy Nineveh. God chose to extend mercy to them once they repented, and shamed Jonah for his prejudice over others who need saving. Mercy trumps justice, otherwise Jesus would have never bothered to save us from what we deserve.
 
We live in the age of knowing good and evil. My love for my fellow man is not increasing. It is dwindling. I find myself wanting to withdraw from people more and more as I learn of their hearts and mind sets. To love as Christ loved? That is HUGE.

How so ?(an age 'knowing' good and evil)... It seems obvious from Scripture and from just looking around everywhere (yes, even church; everywhere), that people don't know right an wrong, good and evil, not even just as much as 40 years ago.
If Martin Luther or Apostle Paul or Spurgeon or any of the great men of faith of the past got up and preached today, in washington d.c., or in los angeles, or in france, or in britain,
they would be dragged out and stoned (or the equivalent, as evil men sought to quiet them).

Oh, there's a remnant, yes, who knows right and wrong, as Yhwh has always kept a few for Himself just as He says through the O.T. and through the N.T..

In Christ, He provides love for others(i.e.His People have love and peace and joy). But in society, men's love is non-existent or cold or growing cold. the beast could not have so much power over the people and deceive so many today if they knew good and evil, if they would choose what is right, Yhwh willing. Yhwh has provided a Way, the Only Way, to be free from the Evil, in and by and through His Grace in Yeshua HaMashiach.
 
Given their evil ways, Jonah believed it would have been just for God to destroy Nineveh. God chose to extend mercy to them once they repented, and shamed Jonah for his prejudice over others who need saving. Mercy trumps justice, otherwise Jesus would have never bothered to save us from what we deserve.
Mercy trumps judgement. We could not have mercy without Justice. For Gods Justice was satisfied on the Cross, now able to to show mercy, which is grace in action. But justice had to be served. And Christ satisfied the Justice of God.

If God had mercy on Jesus Christ on the cross, Justice would not be satisfied.

Mercy, which is Grace in action was implemented to the human race because justice was served, not mercy.

Jesus Christ the ONLY one who deserved mercy, and had none.
 
We live in the age of knowing good and evil. My love for my fellow man is not increasing. It is dwindling. I find myself wanting to withdraw from people more and more as I learn of their hearts and mind sets. To love as Christ loved? That is HUGE.

Yes, we live in the age of knowing good and evil; that is the burden that we must bear for partaking from the tree of knowledge. I do not think that you are alone in the sense you feel your love for your fellow man dwindling instead of increasing, but I would like to bring up a scripture in light of this that maybe many should meditate on.

Matt 24:12-13 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Jesus warns us that because of iniquity, the love of many wax cold, or as you phrased it in you post, to dwindle or diminish. Now I do not share this passage to make your doubt your faith, but to remind you, and all of us for that matter that Jesus did warn us that Iniquity would increase, and that it shall test your faith and love, so what we should seek then is how to endure it: and that is where sharing our Faith openly with one another can help.

When anyone talks about their love for their fellow man, it seems awfully vague to me, because the term love can be applied very broadly. But if I can use a play on words for a moment, you said "My Love" was not increasing. But maybe that isn't something to be too overly concerned with, because as the Spirit of Christ increases, our own spirit must decrease as we lay down our own will. Our sense of our love for our our fellow man must give way to allow the love of God to work through us. There are no rules nor guidelines to direct us down this path, and its way can only be found through Faith.

Many people believe one day they will be raptured out of here where they will serve Christ before the throne of God. But I am reminded of a scripture where Jesus said that in what you have done unto the least of these, so have you done unto me. If we want to serve before the throne of Christ, then we each must not only claim the the temple of God resides in our own hearts, but recognize that it resides in the hearts of all others as well. So when when your fellow man rubs you the wrong way, try looking past the man that bears the same burdens in the flesh that the rest of us do, and instead think of how you might respond to the spirit of Christ that dwells in is heart; For what you have done unto the least of these, you have done unto me.

There is no requirement that says you must associate with everyone. If certain people rub you the wrong way you are free so separate yourself from them; if it involves a work environment with a co-worker, then there is a scripture that comes to mind.

Rom 12:20-21 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

If I might throw this out there just for a thought, the story of Abraham in the book of Genesis comes to my mind, where the Lord had come to warn Abraham of the destruction of the city, can't remember if it was Sodom and Gomorrah or not, but that's not important. But I remember the story of Abraham bargaining with the Lord; surely for fifty righteous souls you would not destroy the city. And the Lord replied, for fifty righteous I will not destroy the city. At which Abraham responds, perhaps for twenty five......
 
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Yes, we live in the age of knowing good and evil; that is the burden that we must bear for partaking from the tree of knowledge. I do not think that you are alone in the sense you feel your love for your fellow man dwindling instead of increasing, but I would like to bring up a scripture in light of this that maybe many should meditate on.

Matt 24:12-13 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Jesus warns us that because of iniquity, the love of many wax cold, or as you phrased it in you post, to dwindle or diminish. Now I do not share this passage to make your doubt your faith, but to remind you, and all of us for that matter that Jesus did warn us that Iniquity would increase, and that it shall test your faith and love, so what we should seek then is how to endure it: and that is where sharing our Faith openly with one another can help.

When anyone talks about their love for their fellow man, it seems awfully vague to me, because the term love can be applied very broadly. But if I can use a play on words for a moment, you said "My Love" was not increasing. But maybe that isn't something to be too overly concerned with, because as the Spirit of Christ increases, our own spirit must decrease as we lay down our own will. Our sense of our love for our our fellow man must give way to allow the love of God to work through us. There are no rules nor guidelines to direct us down this path, and its way can only be found through Faith.

Many people believe one day they will be raptured out of here where they will serve Christ before the throne of God. But I am reminded of a scripture where Jesus said that in what you have done unto the least of these, so have you done unto me. If we want to serve before the throne of Christ, then we each must not only claim the the temple of God resides in our own hearts, but recognize that it resides in the hearts of all others as well. So when when your fellow man rubs you the wrong way, try looking past the man that bears the same burdens in the flesh that the rest of us do, and instead think of how you might respond to the spirit of Christ that dwells in is heart; For what you have done unto the least of these, you have done unto me.

There is no requirement that says you must associate with everyone. If certain people rub you the wrong way you are free so separate yourself from them; if it involves a work environment with a co-worker, then there is a scripture that comes to mind.

Rom 12:20-21 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

If I might throw this out there just for a thought, the story of Abraham in the book of Genesis comes to my mind, where the Lord had come to warn Abraham of the destruction of the city, can't remember if it was Sodom and Gomorrah or not, but that's not important. But I remember the story of Abraham bargaining with the Lord; surely for fifty righteous souls you would not destroy the city. And the Lord replied, for fifty righteous I will not destroy the city. At which Abraham responds, perhaps for twenty five......
Now that is some good stuff and I would recommend it read by all.

We get all these different ways to "love" one another and it usually brings up thoughts of daisy fields and never disagreeing with someone. Everything is dandy and all work together.

The biblical love that we are to have is Virtue love, it is loving the person because of what Christ is doing in us. Not what the personality of another is doing to us. We love because of what is in us, not what is in the other person.

It is called unconditional, impersonal love for others. I might dislike things about others and even "hate" things about others but I unconditionally and impersonally love that person. Because of what Christ has done In me.
 
and don't forget that Yeshua equates love with obedience. (several times in the N.T.)
as in move in doing(live by faith) or do what Abba says is best for another.
He doesn't identify it as an emotion anyplace I think. (emotions are severely dealt with elsewhere, as in crucified)
 
and don't forget that Yeshua equates love with obedience. (several times in the N.T.)
as in move in doing(live by faith) or do what Abba says is best for another.
He doesn't identify it as an emotion anyplace I think. (emotions are severely dealt with elsewhere, as in crucified)
And don't forget that loving is obedience.
 
Mercy trumps judgement. We could not have mercy without Justice. For Gods Justice was satisfied on the Cross, now able to to show mercy, which is grace in action. But justice had to be served. And Christ satisfied the Justice of God.

If God had mercy on Jesus Christ on the cross, Justice would not be satisfied.

Mercy, which is Grace in action was implemented to the human race because justice was served, not mercy.

Jesus Christ the ONLY one who deserved mercy, and had none.

I'm sorry, but how is justice served, satisfied, etc. when the innocent pay the price of the guilty? God is not bound by legalism. He can extend mercy to whomever He chooses.
 
I'm sorry, but how is justice served, satisfied, etc. when the innocent pay the price of the guilty? God is not bound by legalism. He can extend mercy to whomever He chooses.
Justice was served when Christ took our place on the cross. Gods attributes all work together and Justice demanded a payment for the transgression of the human race.

God could not show mercy to us without the Cross. Gods righteousness demands Justice. And Christ satisfied That perfect Justice on the Cross. He took the payment that we deserved.

And I agree, He Is free to extend mercy, but it could not be done without the cross.
 
I'm sorry, but how is justice served, satisfied, etc. when the innocent pay the price of the guilty? God is not bound by legalism. He can extend mercy to whomever He chooses.
Maybe the problem is that a lot of people these days are trying to put God in a box that is defined by our current human concept of things like justice, mercy, and love, etc. God is not human and is not bound by our ideas and concepts. It is not up to God to conform His ways of doing things to our ideas of how it should be done. He has told us in scripture how He does things and it's up to us to conform to Him. If He told us that His Son had to die on the cross to pay for our sins and keep us from suffering in hell forever, than that's the way it is, whether or not that fits our current idea of justice.

As for me, I'm happy to just accept that payment for what I've done and glad it was done for me. I'm thankful enough for this that I don't feel any need to argue with God about why He can't agree with my human ideas.
 
remember, Yeshua HaMashiach did not stay dead. The penalty for sin is death. If you or I or anyone else died for their sin, they would not ever receive eternal life because the death was deserved.

Yeshua did not sin. He did not deserve death.(we did).

The law, the penalty of death, death itself could not hold Him.

He was judged a criminal, and hung on a tree ("cursed is he who is hung on a tree"), and gave up His life(no one could take it from Him).

Yhwh resurrected Him, as it is written, after 3 days and 3 nights.

Perfect Justice Completed, and, for us in Him, Mercy to be freed from sin and to receive eternal life.
 
YLT
2Co 5:18 And the all things are of God, who reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and did give to us the ministration of the reconciliation,
2Co 5:19 how that God was in Christ--a world reconciling to Himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses; and having put in us the word of the reconciliation,
2Co 5:20 in behalf of Christ, then, we are ambassadors, as if God were calling through us, we beseech, in behalf of Christ, `Be ye reconciled to God;'
2Co 5:21 for him who did not know sin, in our behalf He did make sin, that we may become the righteousness of God in him.

Joh 15:12 `This is my command, that ye love one another, according as I did love you;
Joh 15:13 greater love than this hath no one, that any one his life may lay down for his friends;

I don't know that the Son had to die to appease an angry God. But I do know that by His death on the cross we can know how much we are loved by the Father and the Son.
If only everyone in the world could KNOW how much they are loved by the Father and the Son they would reconcile themselves to the Father through the Son.

remember, Yeshua HaMashiach did not stay dead. The penalty for sin is death. If you or I or anyone else died for their sin, they would not ever receive eternal life because the death was deserved.

Yeshua did not sin. He did not deserve death.(we did).

The law, the penalty of death, death itself could not hold Him.

He was judged a criminal, and hung on a tree ("cursed is he who is hung on a tree"), and gave up His life(no one could take it from Him).

Yhwh resurrected Him, as it is written, after 3 days and 3 nights.

Perfect Justice Completed, and, for us in Him, Mercy to be freed from sin and to receive eternal life.

Good post.

 
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