Limited atonement !

[brightfame52]

The truth of limited atonement is vital to the Christian Gospel, there's no Gospel without it. See 1 Cor 15:3. It refers specifically to the Death of Christ on the Cross, which death fully satisfied the law and justice of God for not all human beings but only for a certain group, the elect of God, Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.

Now let's get one thing understood, when i speak of limited atonement, i don't mean by any means that Christ atoning death is limited in its power, but that its limited in that it doesn't cover or apply to everyone, but only applies to and covers the elect or chosen of God or the Church of God in Christ, or Gods Sheep.

 

[crossnote]

The truth of limited atonement is vital to the Christian Gospel, there's no Gospel without it. See 1 Cor 15:3. It refers specifically to the Death of Christ on the Cross, which death fully satisfied the law and justice of God for not all human beings but only for a certain group, the elect of God, Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.

Now let's get one thing understood, when i speak of limited atonement, i don't mean by any means that Christ atoning death is limited in its power, but that its limited in that it doesn't cover or apply to everyone, but only applies to and covers the elect or chosen of God or the Church of God in Christ, or Gods Sheep.

The #1 obstacle I have with limited atonement is...
"How can God judge as guilty, those whom he has not predestined to faith in His Son?"

(if the Arminian feels smug in his position, I have equally puzzling questions for them).

 

[journeyman]

See 1 Cor 15:3. It refers specifically to the Death of Christ on the Cross, which death fully satisfied the law and justice of God...

The death of Jesus was contrary to the law and justice of our Father, simply because the law and justice of God doesn't allow innocent people to be executed. It doesn't allow false witnesses. 1Cor.15:3 means our Lord was wrongfully convicted and wrongfully sentenced.

 

[crossnote]

The death of Jesus was contrary to the law and justice of our Father, simply because the law and justice of God doesn't allow innocent people to be executed.

So are you saying God sinned in putting to death his Son on the cross?

Acts 4:27-28 (KJV) For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

 

[brightfame52]

The #1 obstacle I have with limited atonement is...
"How can God judge as guilty, those whom he has not predestined to faith in His Son?"

(if the Arminian feels smug in his position, I have equally puzzling questions for them).

Those God condemns He condemns them for their sins, He is Just !

 

[brightfame52]

The death of Jesus was contrary to the law and justice of our Father, simply because the law and justice of God doesn't allow innocent people to be executed. It doesn't allow false witnesses. 1Cor.15:3 means our Lord was wrongfully convicted and wrongfully sentenced.

I have the slightest idea of what you talking about.

 

[journeyman]

So are you saying God sinned in putting to death his Son on the cross?

No dear Christian. Gods' will is here,

He had one left to send, a son, whom he loved. He sent him last of all, saying, ‘They will respect my son.' Mk.12:6

The murder of our gentle sweet Savior shows his longsuffering toward people who sinned against him.

Acts 4:27-28 (KJV) For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

Peter is quoting Psa.2:1-3. God knew "their wicked hands and evil counsel" was vain.

Read Pro.6:16-19. Those sins were committed against Jesus. Against God in the flesh.

 

[journeyman]

I have the slightest idea of what you talking about.

I'm talking about God being willing to forgive anyone who repents, for having sinned against him in the most vile ways immaginable.

 

[crossnote]

Those God condemns He condemns them for their sins, He is Just !

But ALL have sinned, so that doesn’t answer my question.

 

[crossnote]

Peter is quoting Psa.2:1-3. God knew "their wicked hands and evil counsel" was vain.

Read Pro.6:16-19. Those sins were committed against Jesus. Against God in the flesh.

But Acts 4:28 reveals that was in God’s determined counsel, so it seems according to what you stated in post #4, God the Father sinned.

 

[journeyman]

But Acts 4:28 reveals that was in God’s determined counsel, so it seems according to what you stated in post #4, God the Father sinned.

Gods' "determined counsel" is to show mankinds sin against him. Please see Acts 4:28 this way,

If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. Whoever hates me, hates my Father also.
Jn.15:22-23

Knowing sinners want an innocent man put to death isn't sin. Putting an innocent man to death is sin.

 

[crossnote]

Gods' "determined counsel" is to show mankinds sin against him. Please see Acts 4:28 this way,

If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. Whoever hates me, hates my Father also.
Jn.15:22-23

Knowing sinners want an innocent man put to death isn't sin. Putting an innocent man to death is sin.

1 Peter 1:18-20 (KJV) Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

...but thank you for your opinion.

 

[journeyman]

1 Peter 1:18-20 (KJV) Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

...but thank you for your opinion

1Pet.1:18-20 doesn't disagree with the scripture I cited. Our Lord came preaching the good news that he forgives anyone who wants forgiveness and was murdered by people who hated him,

Dear friends, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal that has come on you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler. However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name.
1Pet.4:12-16

If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. Jn.15:18

God was pleased that his Son laid his life down. God wasn't pleased that sinners murdered him.

 

[brightfame52]

I'm talking about God being willing to forgive anyone who repents, for having sinned against him in the most vile ways immaginable.

God forgives His Elect and gives them repentance, His forgiveness is limited as is the Atonement of Christ Mic 7:18

Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.

His mercy and forgiveness, and repentance is only for a remnant, do you know what a remnant is ?

 

[brightfame52]

But ALL have sinned, so that doesn’t answer my question.

Yeah all have sinned and are sinners, but God only saves some from sin, though all deserve hell.

 

[crossnote]

1Pet.1:18-20 doesn't disagree with the scripture I cited. Our Lord came preaching the good news that he forgives anyone who wants forgiveness and was murdered by people who hated him,

Dear friends, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal that has come on you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler. However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name.
1Pet.4:12-16

If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. Jn.15:18

God was pleased that his Son laid his life down. God wasn't pleased that sinners murdered him.

Doesn’t the Son always DO the Father’s will?

John 5:19 KJV
[19] Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

 

[crossnote]

Yeah all have sinned and are sinners, but God only saves some from sin, though all deserve hell.

I’m still not clear of your answer. It is a sincere question, take your time to explain.

”How can God judge as guilty, those whom he has not predestined to faith in His Son?"

 

[brightfame52]

I’m still not clear of your answer. It is a sincere question, take your time to explain.

”How can God judge as guilty, those whom he has not predestined to faith in His Son?"

Already answered, they are guilty sinners.

 

[crossnote]

Already answered, they are guilty sinners.

Ok, my issue is since we are all guilty sinners, how will God judge fairly if He sends some to hell only because He didn't elect them and others to eternal life only because He chose them? Is this not partiality, the very thing James tell us no to do?

James 2:9 (NASB) But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.

 

[JLB]

Already answered, they are guilty sinners.

Yeah all have sinned and are sinners, but God only saves some from sin, though all deserve hell.

Where does it say in the Bible that God only saves some from sin?


Why doesn’t He save anyone who believes the Gospel?