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Isaiah and Job took it and were better men for knowing the truth. He can be trusted.
Most likely God didn’t show them more than they could handle…

Fisherman Peter nearly lost it…

Luke 5:8 KJV
[8] When Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus' knees, saying, Depart from me; for I am a sinful man, O Lord.
 
That’s correct and He will do the for anyone else who asks to see the truth about their heart.
All they have to do is pick up the Bible, God's Word, and they will read such things as... the heart is desperately wicked, that none seeketh after God,that we are dead in sins and trespasses, and are at enmity with God, our hearts are darkened through the ignorance that is unregenerate man, etc..
 
Mike Mcinnis writes:

There is no more hated doctrine in that camp than that which declares that the redemption which was finished by CHRIST is exclusively accomplished for an elect people. The statement, “Jesus died for everyone” cannot be true unless one of two things is true: Either we conclude that all men are saved or we conclude that CHRIST only made salvation a possibility by HIS death and in reality saved no one by HIS effort. We are certain that all men are not saved because the LORD JESUS plainly declared that all men were not HIS sheep and that some have the devil for their father..HE says HE does not know them. The writer of Hebrews plainly states that CHRIST has “obtained eternal redemption” for those for whom HE shed HIS precious blood. Even as the angel told Joseph, “thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.” There is no mention in the scripture of an ATONEMENT that does not atone, a JUSTIFIER which does not justify, nor a SAVIOR which does not save. HE is the SANCTIFIER and the SANCTIFICATION of all of those for whom HE has entered in once into the Holy Place with HIS own blood. The redemption of the LORD’s people is not a cooperative effort nor does it somehow become effective when they believe it. Those who are redeemed by HIS blood are redeemed by HIS blood. Their justification does not depend on what they do or do not do, but rather is completely based on what HE has done in their behalf. What they could not do HE has accomplished for them. HE has become sin for them that they might be made the righteousness of GOD in HIM. There can be no true gospel preached where the work of CHRIST is presented as less than the complete salvation of those for whom HE died. There is no mixture of the profane and the sacred in the proclamation of the finished work of CHRIST. There is no place for men to glory in having been made the recipients of HIS grace and the objects of HIS favor.https://media-cloud.sermonaudio.com/text/122192132104807.pdf
 
dorthy mae
You use past tense. The text is future…to be conformed to the image of His son.

Rom 8:29-30

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

What are you looking at. Paul uses the aorist tense which is normally past tense several times in the passage:

The word predestinate is aorist, called is aorist, justified is aorist, glorified is aorist
 
That spirit is not limited to them nor died with them. It’s not the office that grants a man discernment nor was Jesus talking to the apostles alone.
So do you think that people who ‘hear‘ from God today can write Scripture like the prophets and apostles of old?
 
All they have to do is pick up the Bible, God's Word, and they will read such things as... the heart is desperately wicked, that none seeketh after God,that we are dead in sins and trespasses, and are at enmity with God, our hearts are darkened through the ignorance that is unregenerate man, etc..
Dear Crossnote, if you do a search for seeking God or sought the Lord, you will find examples of those who did. The scripture that says “no one seeketh after God” is speaking about Israel at a particular time AND the author of that text was not included because he had to have sought God (and did) to get that insight. It’s like if a man wrote, “no one can write,” he cannot possibly be including himself or he couldn’t write even that.

So people seek God and have sought God and we are commanded to do so even the unregenerated.

None of this addresses seeing your own heart as Isaiah described of himself nor Job. It is profoundly different to see your own heart than the general “yeah, we’re all sinners.”
 
So do you think that people who ‘hear‘ from God today can write Scripture like the prophets and apostles of old?
I don’t see any reason why anyone would be called of God to do so. The things written are now sufficient for us to understand and believe.

Do I believe people can hear from God personally? Absolutely. “My sheep hear my voice.” Notice he said “hear”not “read” although knowing what is already written AND living it are also vital. The Bible is the check to see if you heard from God or you made it up yourself (not always easy to tell.)
 
Dear Crossnote, if you do a search for seeking God or sought the Lord, you will find examples of those who did. The scripture that says “no one seeketh after God” is speaking about Israel at a particular time AND the author of that text was not included because he had to have sought God (and did) to get that insight. It’s like if a man wrote, “no one can write,” he cannot possibly be including himself or he couldn’t write even that.

So people seek God and have sought God and we are commanded to do so even the unregenerated.

None of this addresses seeing your own heart as Isaiah described of himself nor Job. It is profoundly different to see your own heart than the general “yeah, we’re all sinners.”
David said "God has dealt with me according to my righteousness." That sure doesn't fit the Calvinistic narrative.
 
I don’t see any reason why anyone would be called of God to do so. The things written are now sufficient for us to understand and believe.

Do I believe people can hear from God personally? Absolutely. “My sheep hear my voice.” Notice he said “hear”not “read” although knowing what is already written AND living it are also vital. The Bible is the check to see if you heard from God or you made it up yourself (not always easy to tell.)
To hear his voice is not to receive divine revelation but rather to obey faithfully. It fills the OT prophets and there it is clearly a call to obey. In the Bible, hearing is obeying.
 
Is there a contradiction here ? Jesus said He gave himself a ransom for many Mark 10:45

For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

And His faithful apostle wrote that Jesus gave His life a ransom for all 1 Tim 2:6

6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Now here is a writing that I believe reconciles what appears to be a contradiction, and will go on to confirm limited atonement: Craig A. Thurman

For Whom Did Christ Give His Life a Ransom? 1 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. Mt 20:28 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. 1Ti 2:6 There is here an apparent contradiction. On one hand Jesus said that He gave His life a ransom for many and, on the other Paul said that Christ gave his life a ransom for all. Anyone with reverence for the Word of God knows that these statements cannot be contradictory. Both of these statements are correct and therefore they must be harmonious. So, how can this apparent contradiction be resolved? First, in Mt.20.28 many is an indeterminate portion of a larger number. Many distinguishes some from all. So, many of a larger, all-comprehensive number are ransomed. This all-comprehensive number can be called all without exception. Second, in 1Ti.2.6, all takes into account only those that are ransomed. This entire group is without distinction, because they are all equally ransomed. So, all in this instance can be called all without distinction. The word all is often defined incorrectly. For this reason, the statements in which this word is used are also misunderstood. For example, all is almost always used with reference to some things or some people in particular. In Mt.3.5, 6 it is written, Mt 3:5,6 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, and were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins. Here the word all does not mean that Judaea and Jordan became vacated to the extent that no one was left in those places. Here, all is understood in a limited sense and refers to a particular people. To whom does all refer? It only refers to all that desired to receive John’s baptism? All of these were from these places. So, when we fail to correctly define just this one little word the truth becomes distorted in some measure. In 1Ti.2.6 all means all without distinction. In other words all refers to all kinds of people, not every person without exception; people without distinction (without regard to their being rich or poor, healthy or sick, master or servant, and color). The topic of 1Ti.2.1-8 demands that all be defined in this way. Paul encouraged Timothy to make prayers and supplications for all men. (v.1) These men are described as kings and all that are in authority. (v.2) Verses 4 and 5 continue to state that Christ would have all men to be saved because he is a mediator between God and men. It is for all of these that He gave Himself a ransom. Therefore, all can only be interpreted to mean all without distinction, or all kinds of men. As it is not the will of God for us to entertain prayer for all men without exception, it was not the will of God for Christ to ransom every man without exception. The Word of God says no such things. However, the Word of God states in clearest terms that Christ gave His life a ransom for every man without distinction. For Whom Did Christ Give His Life a Ransom? 2 Re 5:9, 10 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; and hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. He did not ransom every man when He died. How do we know that? Some men die in their sins. Clearly a ransom price had not been paid for these which perished. Conversely, how can any man perish whose ransom price was paid for by Jesus Christ? Mt.18.11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish. Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. Joh 6:39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. So, there is not a contradiction in Mt.20.28 and 1Ti.2.6 at all. When the Word of God is rightly divided these two verses state one, harmonious message: Christ ransomed many from all without exception, and the many ransomed are all without distinction. This doctrine is called particular redemption. http://media.sermonaudio.com/articles/hi-8171711208-1.PDF 5
 
dorthy mae
said:

So people seek God and have sought God and we are commanded to do so even the unregenerated.

Thats not true, heres why Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
 
To hear his voice is not to receive divine revelation but rather to obey faithfully. It fills the OT prophets and there it is clearly a call to obey. In the Bible, hearing is obeying.
If you don’t hear divine instructions, you cannot obey them. But otherwise you are correct. There is a clear call to obey known and/or received instructions.
 
dorthy mae
said:



Thats not true, heres why Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
“He sought God during the days of Zechariah”

“Then Jehoahaz sought the LORD’s favor,”

“When I was in distress, I sought the Lord”

“I sought the LORD, and he answered me”

“And Moses besought the LORD his God,”

And there are a LOT more examples of individuals who sought the Lord. You can believe your theology or your can seek the Lord to understand that which is in these verses.
 
If you don’t hear divine instructions, you cannot obey them. But otherwise you are correct. There is a clear call to obey known and/or received instructions.
It is not saying that believers today can hear divine revelation to them; rather, it is saying to obey the revelation already given in the Bible.
 
“He sought God during the days of Zechariah”

“Then Jehoahaz sought the LORD’s favor,”

“When I was in distress, I sought the Lord”

“I sought the LORD, and he answered me”

“And Moses besought the LORD his God,”
But it is interesting that all of these come from the Tanakh. And brightfame's argument comes only from the NT.
 
But it is interesting that all of these come from the Tanakh. And brightfame's argument comes only from the NT.
No, the scripture he quotes comes from the OT and the author of Romans is quoting the OT.

He insists essentially that “no one ever seeks God in human history” and I proved that is not what the author was saying, obviously.
 
No, the scripture he quotes comes from the OT and the author of Romans is quoting the OT.

He insists essentially that “no one ever seeks God in human history” and I proved that is not what the author was saying, obviously.
What then is Paul's point?
 
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