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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Luke 7:30 examples of those who reject the purpose of God for themselves
- Thread starter Dorothy Mae
- Start date
God made promises to Abraham about “his seed”:
- [Gen 22:18 NASB95] 18 "In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice."
- [Gen 26:4 NASB95] 4 "I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven, and will give your descendants all these lands; and by your descendants all the nations of the earth shall be blessed;
- [Gen 28:14 NASB95] 14 "Your descendants will also be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west and to the east and to the north and to the south; and in you and in your descendants shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
- [Rom 4:13-17 NLT]
- 13 Clearly, God's promise to give the whole earth to Abraham and his descendants was based not on his obedience to God's law, but on a right relationship with God that comes by faith. 14 If God's promise is only for those who obey the law, then faith is not necessary and the promise is pointless. 15 For the law always brings punishment on those who try to obey it. (The only way to avoid breaking the law is to have no law to break!)
- 16 So the promise is received by faith. It is given as a free gift. And we are all certain to receive it, whether or not we live according to the law of Moses, if we have faith like Abraham's. For Abraham is the father of all who believe. 17 That is what the Scriptures mean when God told him, "I have made you the father of many nations." This happened because Abraham believed in the God who brings the dead back to life and who creates new things out of nothing.
It is TRUE, but it is nothing NEW for anyone already saved … you already belong to Jesus.
Dorothy Mae
Member
It’s pretty interesting that Calvinism redefines words. It’s interesting because cults do this too. To a Mormon, for example, a “Gentile”is a non-Mormon.
What was the definition of Trinity before Christians expressed the doctrine of the Trinity?
Unconditional Election is a phrase created to describe a concept that Theologians found articulated in scripture (like Trinity). You make it sound like something sinister to find a biblical truth and assign it a name to make discussion of that truth easier. Do you feel the same about the word “Trinity”? What about the word “baptize” that the Apostles appropriated and redefined (it meant literally “to whelm” or “to plunge under” before the Apostles started using it to mean something else).
Thanks A.
Brightfame got me a little mixed up.
He was talking about the Promises of God Father then.
I even read a good book about this: A Father That Keeps His Promises.
It's written by Scott Hahn, a protestant that became Catholic. He writes very good books. He's a theologian and scholar but writes for lay persons and I really like his books. (they're not about Catholicism and I'm not Catholic).
This also has to do with the Abrahamic Covenant (of which there was more than one) and how it's fulfilled in the New Covenant, as you've explained.
The reformed give different names to the Covenants, as I've learned from brightfame52 .
I think they call the New Covenant, the Covenant of Redemption.
Anyway, yes, thanks for clearing that up.
You explain everything very well, BTW.
This is interesting...
The idea of baptizing was even in the OT.
I used to know a LITTLE more about this years ago.
Might have to restudy it.
John the Baptist was still of the OT and he was baptizing...
did it ONLY mean to plunge under water?
And in John 3:5 many believe that the born again by water means baptism.
You opened up a nice can of worms for me...
Beware conversations about “covenants” with the Reformed and thinking of them as one group. The true Reformed (as distinct from Particular Baptists, or people that just embrace TULIP) have a strong Covenant Theology explained in the WCF. Other “TULIP/Calvinists” sort of Reformed, have views that are all over the place.
Confusing the views just leads to confusion (even when “Reformed”, “Calvinist” and “TULIP” are commonly used interchangeably by most people).
Thank you,
You are very welcome.
Our entire society is doing this lately.
Newspeak is on the rise....just like George Orwell ,1984, predicted.
I should make a list.
We go to war to keep the peace.
And Biden comes up with this stuff all the time.
Remember the word “baptizo” is Greek … so the OT would have a Hebrew word which will have a slightly different root meaning.
The baptism of John confused the religious experts of his day because it did not quite fit with any of the ceremonial cleansing that they had. It was close enough that they recognized it as related (somehow) and different enough that they wanted to ask questions about EXACTLY what he meant and by what authority he acted.
[We know how well John responded to their inquiries.]
Here is “baptizo” from the OT in the LXX (it only occurs twice in the OT):
- [Isaiah 21:4 NASB95] 4 My mind reels, horror overwhelms me; The twilight I longed for has been turned for me into trembling.
- Literal LXX translation: my heart is led astray and iniquity baptizes me my soul is filled with fear
- [2 Kings 5:14 NASB95] 14 So he went down and dipped himself seven times in the Jordan, according to the word of the man of God; and his flesh was restored like the flesh of a little child and he was clean.
When brightfame52 first brought this up he kept accusing me of not knowing the Covenants.
Then I realized he was giving a different name/title to them.
The Covenant of Grace
The Covenant of Redemption...etc.
Once I tried to see if the C of R was perhaps the New Covenant and I realized that yes, it was, but it was using terms that are not used in teaching the New Covenant.
Just want to say that I had to study the Covenants so I could then teach them and went back to the Edenic, up to the New, but skipped a few, so I did maybe 7 or 8. None of the title BF was giving me matched up.
Isn't this another reason why you shouldn't be a baptist!
Yes. This is the beginning of it, but it goes much deeper.
I think we have a Jewish scholar on here.
Maybe I'll pick his brain and save me some work!
(getting smart in my old age!!)
I came into being a BAPTIST through the back door. I attended almost every other denomination:
- Lutheran
- Methodist
- RCC
- Church of God
- Evangelical Free
- Pentecostal
Then one day I took a detailed on-line survey of what I believed and it said that I was a 100% match to something called “Reformed Baptist” (whatever the heck that was).
So I visited a Southern Baptist Church and studied the Baptist Faith and Message in detail and asked a bunch of questions. It turned out the traditional “Baptist” name for a Reformed Baptist is a Particular Baptist and that there have been both Particular and General Baptists for as long as there have been Baptists.
So whatever I call myself, ultimately, I AM a Particular Baptist … because I read the Bible and what I believe the Bible says matches what the Particular Baptists believe the Bible says. If you want me to be something else, pray to God … He is in charge of changing hearts and minds. 😉
But Does God change HIS mind?
LOL
I think you were predestinated to be a Particular Baptist!
Whoever is right or wrong, I do believe God will forgive those with a pure heart.
It's interesting that you didn't match with Lutheran.
When you come to Italy, we'll discuss over a cup of cappuccino,
or Caffe Macchiato - my current favorite.
You bring your crew (family) and I'll bring my crew.
My Lutheran adventure is a hilarious story and a monument to God’s sense of humor and ability to have is way with anyone and any situation.
My mother’s parents were Roman Catholic … so their grandson WAS going to be baptized.
My father’s parents were Methodist … so their grandson WAS going to be raised Protestant.
My father was an atheist … so he just didn’t want to hear about it at every family gathering.
I was an infant.
Very few churches will baptize the infant of non-members, especially non-members that have no intention of attending that church. However, the local Lutheran church was willing to perform an infant baptism (I personally suspect that the Father thought I needed all the grace I could get).
My mother’s parents got an infant baptism.
My father’s parents got Protestant.
My father got peace and quiet.
I got baptized as a Lutheran.
Later in life, when I was raised atheist but had some questions about God, I visited a Lutheran church to chat with a pastor. He took the time to answer my questions and gave me my first Bible (RSV). Because of that I always have had a soft spot for Lutherans.
Ultimately, I chose nihilism until God intervened. However, technically, I was infant baptized … so an atheist could get some peace and quiet. Tell me God does not have a sense of humor.
My mother’s parents were Roman Catholic … so their grandson WAS going to be baptized.
My father’s parents were Methodist … so their grandson WAS going to be raised Protestant.
My father was an atheist … so he just didn’t want to hear about it at every family gathering.
I was an infant.
Very few churches will baptize the infant of non-members, especially non-members that have no intention of attending that church. However, the local Lutheran church was willing to perform an infant baptism (I personally suspect that the Father thought I needed all the grace I could get).
My mother’s parents got an infant baptism.
My father’s parents got Protestant.
My father got peace and quiet.
I got baptized as a Lutheran.
Later in life, when I was raised atheist but had some questions about God, I visited a Lutheran church to chat with a pastor. He took the time to answer my questions and gave me my first Bible (RSV). Because of that I always have had a soft spot for Lutherans.
Ultimately, I chose nihilism until God intervened. However, technically, I was infant baptized … so an atheist could get some peace and quiet. Tell me God does not have a sense of humor.
So does this mean you're not coming to Italy??My Lutheran adventure is a hilarious story and a monument to God’s sense of humor and ability to have is way with anyone and any situation.
My mother’s parents were Roman Catholic … so their grandson WAS going to be baptized.
My father’s parents were Methodist … so their grandson WAS going to be raised Protestant.
My father was an atheist … so he just didn’t want to hear about it at every family gathering.
I was an infant.
Very few churches will baptize the infant of non-members, especially non-members that have no intention of attending that church. However, the local Lutheran church was willing to perform an infant baptism (I personally suspect that the Father thought I needed all the grace I could get).
My mother’s parents got an infant baptism.
My father’s parents got Protestant.
My father got peace and quiet.
I got baptized as a Lutheran.
Later in life, when I was raised atheist but had some questions about God, I visited a Lutheran church to chat with a pastor. He took the time to answer my questions and gave me my first Bible (RSV). Because of that I always have had a soft spot for Lutherans.
Ultimately, I chose nihilism until God intervened. However, technically, I was infant baptized … so an atheist could get some peace and quiet. Tell me God does not have a sense of humor.
Nice story.
A little bit of everything!
Here's some info for you re the CC:
An infant can be baptized even if the parents are atheist.
The child does not suffer for the parents sins. (you have heard this before).
However, the GODPARENTS must be practicing Catholics and, if living together, they must be married.
These are the musts, then, however any particular priest wants to run his parish can be altered a bit here and there,
although it shouldn't be.
Dorothy Mae
Member
This is totally off topic, but my protestant son and daughter-in-law married in a catholic church with a protestant minister. Is that unusual? (In Italy, of course.)So does this mean you're not coming to Italy??
Nice story.
A little bit of everything!
Here's some info for you re the CC:
An infant can be baptized even if the parents are atheist.
The child does not suffer for the parents sins. (you have heard this before).
However, the GODPARENTS must be practicing Catholics and, if living together, they must be married.
These are the musts, then, however any particular priest wants to run his parish can be altered a bit here and there,
although it shouldn't be.
PS: Do you want to meet someday? I’m in CH.
huh?
I never heard of such a thing.
Did they RENT the church??
It's more than unusual.
Where is CH?
I think CH is the abbreviation (country code) for Switzerland.
Dorothy Mae
Member
I was wondering about it. The parish priest thought cooperation between catholics and protestants would be a good thing. It was the first time ever which means for a century or so.
Switzerland
Been there a few times.
Pretty much all over.
It's pretty far though for a get together.
Calvin country.