Must we suffer?

[elijah23]

I would say yes, but only because we sin. If we stop sinning, as Jesus commanded, then we stop suffering.

 

[Pard]

Do we suffer? Yes.

Must we suffer? No.

We suffer because we live in sin. Sin makes us suffer, not some obligation to God.

The idea that we MUST suffer is almost always reserved to cults, the one that comes to mind is the group tat would walk through towns in old Europe flogging themselves.

 

[watchman F]

I would say yes, but only because we sin. If we stop sinning, as Jesus commanded, then we stop suffering.

Seems to me like your conclusion is a bit off?

2nd Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

why would you assume sinlessness leads to no suffering? Jesus never sinned yet He suffered often.

 

[elijah23]

Do we suffer? Yes.

Must we suffer? No.

We suffer because we live in sin. Sin makes us suffer, not some obligation to God.

The idea that we MUST suffer is almost always reserved to cults, the one that comes to mind is the group tat would walk through towns in old Europe flogging themselves.

Here we are agreeing again. Maybe we should be worried.

 

[elijah23]

Seems to me like your conclusion is a bit off?

2nd Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

why would you assume sinlessness leads to no suffering? Jesus never sinned yet He suffered often.

From personal experience, when I live a sinful life, I suffer a great deal. When I repent of my sin, my problems disappear.

 

[watchman F]

Do we suffer? Yes.

Must we suffer? No.

We suffer because we live in sin. Sin makes us suffer, not some obligation to God.

The idea that we MUST suffer is almost always reserved to cults, the one that comes to mind is the group tat would walk through towns in old Europe flogging themselves.

We will suffer for God there is no question about that.
John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

Does this mean we should flog ourselves of course not, but the idea that the godly will not suffer is not scriptural but just the opposite.

 

[Pard]

I would say yes, but only because we sin. If we stop sinning, as Jesus commanded, then we stop suffering.

Seems to me like your conclusion is a bit off?

2nd Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

why would you assume sinlessness leads to no suffering? Jesus never sinned yet He suffered often.

Very true, though I felt Elijah meant suffering not as how others treat us, but self-suffering, like guilt (though that's just an example).

 

[watchman F]

Seems to me like your conclusion is a bit off?

2nd Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

why would you assume sinlessness leads to no suffering? Jesus never sinned yet He suffered often.

From personal experience, when I live a sinful life, I suffer a great deal. When I repent of my sin, my problems disappear.

Well I do not intend to demean your personal experience but the Bible says.

1st Peter 4
12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

 

[Pard]

Do we suffer? Yes.

Must we suffer? No.

We suffer because we live in sin. Sin makes us suffer, not some obligation to God.

The idea that we MUST suffer is almost always reserved to cults, the one that comes to mind is the group tat would walk through towns in old Europe flogging themselves.

We will suffer for God there is no question about that.
John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

Does this mean we should flog ourselves of course not, but the idea that the godly will not suffer is not scriptural but just the opposite.

I did not take the question Elijah asked as the suffering we endure in Christ's name. Those who are not Christians still suffer. I took it to mean the suffering that occurs when we indulge ourselves in sinful pleasures.

 

[elijah23]

Well I do not intend to demean your personal experience but the Bible says.

1st Peter 4
12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

Personal experience, I would say, is a good teacher.

 

[watchman F]

I would say yes, but only because we sin. If we stop sinning, as Jesus commanded, then we stop suffering.

Seems to me like your conclusion is a bit off?

2nd Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

why would you assume sinlessness leads to no suffering? Jesus never sinned yet He suffered often.

Very true, though I felt Elijah meant suffering not as how others treat us, but self-suffering, like guilt (though that's just an example).

Umm, ok well, we are not to carry guilt after we have repented because we are forgiven, this is true, and the catholic doctrine of penitence is false we need not to make amends for our sin. We simply need to repent of them. however to answer the question must we suffer the answer is yes as believers will will if not must suffer for Christ.

 

[watchman F]

Well I do not intend to demean your personal experience but the Bible says.

1st Peter 4
12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

Personal experience, I would say, is a good teacher.

Of course it is, but is does not nor cannot override scripture

 

[watchman F]

Do we suffer? Yes.

Must we suffer? No.

We suffer because we live in sin. Sin makes us suffer, not some obligation to God.

The idea that we MUST suffer is almost always reserved to cults, the one that comes to mind is the group tat would walk through towns in old Europe flogging themselves.

We will suffer for God there is no question about that.
John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

Does this mean we should flog ourselves of course not, but the idea that the godly will not suffer is not scriptural but just the opposite.

I did not take the question Elijah asked as the suffering we endure in Christ's name. Those who are not Christians still suffer. I took it to mean the suffering that occurs when we indulge ourselves in sinful pleasures.

Ahh yes, disciplining ourselves to refrain from sin is much more freeing that indulgence.

 

[shad]

1st Peter 4
12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

This is a good quote. Most of us Christians who live in wealthy countries are not suffering for Christ. Churches strive to make their members feel comfortable so they can keep them in their church.

 

[elijah23]

Of course it is, but is does not nor cannot override scripture

Jesus did tell us to repent:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

 

[watchman F]

Of course it is, but is does not nor cannot override scripture

Jesus did tell us to repent:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

Of course we must repent.

 

[elijah23]

[quote="watchman F":2psgdtm3] Of course it is, but is does not nor cannot override scripture

Jesus did tell us to repent:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

Of course we must repent.[/quote:2psgdtm3]
Experience is a good teacher, I think. I burn my finger on the stove and learn not to put my finger on the stove.

 

[watchman F]

Experience is a good teacher, I think. I burn my finger on the stove and learn not to put my finger on the stove.

Yes this is true. So what you are saying is we do not have to suffer as evil doers. What I am saying is all who live according to the word will suffer as christians. Either way suffering is a must.

 

[Kilo]

Are we discussing suffering as in persecution for being a Christian or suffering for a physical or mental ailment?

 

[Pard]

You two are arguing different sides of the same coin...

We suffer because we sin, but not because God wants us to suffer, but because the price of sinful indulgence is suffering.

We ALSO suffer because we are followers of Jesus Christ, and the path that He prescribes us to is a route of suffering. He tells us we MUST bear the crosses in our path, but again, the Lord does not wish us to suffer, but we WILL suffer because we LOVE God. The suffering set in front of us as Christians is not from God, but from people of the WORLD and things of the WORLD.

Though we do suffer, and will continue to suffer until Jesus comes back to the world it is not something that MUST happen, but it WILL happen none the less.