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Nation shall rise against Nation

DavidT

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Angels are incarnate in human form at times (Genesis 18:2-8) for the purpose of ministry, but I believe only God can give them human form. I have never read in the scriptures where any angel, including Satan and his hoard of angels that follow after him, can supernaturally take on human form by themselves as I believe only God can give them human form for the purpose of His ministry here on earth, but I could be wrong as I can't find any scripture on this.
Afraid not. Thinking that angels have to put on a flesh body just to appear in our earthly dimension is part of the old Jewish traditions of men. This is why they cannot understand about the resurrection body that Apostle Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15, which is about a "spiritual body", not a flesh body. Instead, they believe the old idea of soul sleep, with the future resurrection being about their literal flesh body in the casket being raised. No, on the last day those still alive on earth, their flesh will simply be cast off, revealing their spiritual body. We at present have two bodies, one of flesh, and another one of spirit, Apostle Paul revealed this too in 2 Corinthians 5.

Satan, being a fallen angel, is a powerful spiritual force, but not as powerful as God and his power, unlike God's power, his will come to an end.

Nations will rise against nations as they always have and will increase in the end of days as the workings of Satan are done through men that have not the Spirit of God dwelling in them.

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
That's right, Satan is not a co-equal with our Heavenly Father. But Lord Jesus is.

Also no, nation against nation will not... be happening at the very end of this present world for the trib.

The great trib is going to be a time of "Peace and safety" for the deceived. This is why Jesus revealed that as along as we hear of wars and rumors of war, the end is not yet, the end being the great tribulation time.
 

DavidT

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Satan has always controlled that of the four different Empires being the Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Grecian and the Roman Empire that we read about in Daniel 7 that have always persecuted God's own.

The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25; Rev 13:3. The deadly wound came in 1798 when General Berthier of France, who made his entrance into Rome, abolished the Roman government and established a secular one and captured Pope Pius VI, who soon died in captivity in Valence, on August 29, 1799. In 1801 Napoleon made an agreement with Pope Pius II establishing Napoleon’s Organic Articles of granting the Tribunal and the Corps legislative partial control of the concordat in order to help the state monitor any politically harmful Catholic or Protestant movements or activities. The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave the Vatican back to Pope Pius XI and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty.
I think you have completely missed the "seven heads" idea. That because you try to treat the event of Revelation 12:3-4 like it happens with the beast of Revelation 13, which that latter beast is only about the very end of this world. In Revelation 12:3-4, as I have already said before, was about the time of Satan's original rebellion against God; that is when he first drew a third of the angels ("stars") into rebellion with him.

One of the problems you run into by not understanding about Satan's original rebellion with those Revelation 12:3-4 verses is it becomes impossible to explain when the "deadly wound" upon the Revelation 13 beast happened.

Rev 13:3
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
KJV

Rev 13:12
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
KJV


That shows at sometime prior to that Revelation 13 beast being setup for the end, it had before suffered a deadly wound. And now with this beast of Revelation 13 it is shown having been healed. When was that deadly wound, and when was it healed? I've heard all kinds of speculations on the when, but they all try to point to our present world, and that cannot be, because the "dragon" (Satan) himself is the point of false worship in that Revelation 13 chapter for the end.

That deadly wound happened back in the old world, when Satan first rebelled in coveting God's Throne, and that is when he drew a third of the angels into rebellion with him. God ended that old world, for that world was different than today. In that old world is when God first created Satan as a covering cherub to guard His Throne, and Satan was then perfect in his ways, until he rebelled (per the parable in Ezekiel 28). Thus the Revelation 12:3-4 beast system was in that time of old, and it suffered a deadly wound when God ended that old world and Satan's original rebellion. But now for the end, that wound is healed when that dragon shows up at the end of this world for the Revelation 13 beast system, with the latter beast having ten crowns instead of the old one's seven crowns.
 

DavidT

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Can you tell us who these ten kings are since you say they are not the ones found in Daniel 7?

I never said it was the Catholic Church, but that needs to be a new thread as it is very involved in explanation.

BTW, I allow no man teach me apart from the Holy Spirit teaching them first as I do not believe the lies of Satan, but scripture only.
It's not time for those ten kings at the end to be revealed, because the coming pseudo-Christ is not here yet. His one-world system is not yet complete today. But I can guarantee you, you will know when it is complete if you're still alive. Let's just hope you don't think it's Christ and His Kingdom when that happens.

I'm relying on The Holy Spirit too, so please don't lay our fleshy weakness on Him. I don't claim to be perfect.

Oh, but the Reformers did claim the Catholic Church and the pope was the Antichrist. And many of today's Bible students I've talked to try to apply the ten kings having been a continuation of the old 'pagan' Roman empire while pointing directly to Catholic nations under the old papal king system, like you just did. So let's be honest about what we claim to follow.
 

for_his_glory

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Afraid not. Thinking that angels have to put on a flesh body just to appear in our earthly dimension is part of the old Jewish traditions of men. This is why they cannot understand about the resurrection body that Apostle Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15, which is about a "spiritual body", not a flesh body. Instead, they believe the old idea of soul sleep, with the future resurrection being about their literal flesh body in the casket being raised. No, on the last day those still alive on earth, their flesh will simply be cast off, revealing their spiritual body. We at present have two bodies, one of flesh, and another one of spirit, Apostle Paul revealed this too in 2 Corinthians 5.
I never said that angels have to put on a fleshly body in order to appear to us here on earth. I said they are incarnate at times, not every time. Soul sleep is a false teaching taught by the JW.
Also no, nation against nation will not... be happening at the very end of this present world for the trib.

The great trib is going to be a time of "Peace and safety" for the deceived. This is why Jesus revealed that as along as we hear of wars and rumors of war, the end is not yet, the end being the great tribulation time.
Please show me in scripture where it says nation against nation will not happen during the sounding of the seven trumpets. The great tribulation during the sounding of the seven trumpets will not be a time of peace and safety, but a false pretense given by the son of perdition to deceive the nations during the 3 1/2 year reign of this beast here on earth.

God speaks to us in scripture of a 3 1/2 year tribulation during the time of the seventh trumpet sounding as being time, times and half time which equals 1260 days = 3 ½ years or 3 ½ Times – Hebrew calendar only had 30 days for each month and this is where you get 1260 days or 3 ½ years. This will be the time of the son of perdition taking his seat in Jerusalem promising peace and safety causing all to take its mark or die a martyr's death as they refuse to denounce Christ and bow down and worship this beast, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12; Rev 13; 20:4.
[Scripture reference]
Revelation 12:14; Daniel 7:25; Daniel 12:7
1260 days – Revelation 11:3; Revelation 12:6
42 months – Revelation 11:2; Revelation 13:5

No where in scripture does it mention a seven year tribulation, but only seven trumpets. Scripture says we will always have tribulation as the last time will be such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be, Matthew 24:15-21; Deut 4:30; 7:19; 29:1-6; 1 Samuel 26:24; John 16:33; Romans 12:12; 24:21; James 1:2; 1 Peter 1:6.

The seven trumpets of Revelation are an end time event that is described throughout the Bible as "the shaking of the powers of heaven". Isaiah 13:9, 10; Joel 2:2, 30, 31 Amos 8:9; Zephaniah 1:15, 16; Matthew 24:29; Luke 21:25, 26; Acts 2:20; Rev 6:12, 13; 8:6-11:5.

This will be a time of God shaking the heavens and the earth, shaking those that have yet to repent and turn back to Him in as God would hope that none would perish before the second coming of Christ. This shaking of the earth will not affect those who are God's own by faith in Christ as we are sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption as we are not to grieve the Holy Spirit, Ephesians 4:30. It's those who endure until the end that will be saved from being cast into the lake of fire.

Scripture does not mention a measuring of time during the sounding of each trumpet. IMO I think they will all be sounded quickly and the seventh brings in the abomination of desolation Jesus warned us to flee from. When God starts shaking the heavens and the earth many will walk in fear and fall prey to the son of perdition who claims he is God and promises peace, safety and provision to all who fear what is happening in the world and will bow down to this beast taking its mark sealing their fate of damnation.

The Coming of the Son of Man
Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luke 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luke 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.



1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
 

for_his_glory

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That deadly wound happened back in the old world, when Satan first rebelled in coveting God's Throne, and that is when he drew a third of the angels into rebellion with him. God ended that old world, for that world was different than today. In that old world is when God first created Satan as a covering cherub to guard His Throne, and Satan was then perfect in his ways, until he rebelled (per the parable in Ezekiel 28). Thus the Revelation 12:3-4 beast system was in that time of old, and it suffered a deadly wound when God ended that old world and Satan's original rebellion. But now for the end, that wound is healed when that dragon shows up at the end of this world for the Revelation 13 beast system, with the latter beast having ten crowns instead of the old one's seven crowns.
The world in which Satan was placed in the garden of Eden before iniquity was found in him is the same world we live in today that God will make new again before ushing down the New Jerusalem so I don't know what you mean by an old world. There were no Empires or beast systems that Satan works through here on earth before the creation of man.
 

JLB

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Revelation 12:3-4, as I have already said before, was about the time of Satan's original rebellion against God; that is when he first drew a third of the angels ("stars") into rebellion with him

Revelation 12 takes place at the end of the age, and is associated with the great tribulation when Satan and his angels are cast down to the earth.




JLB
 

for_his_glory

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It's not time for those ten kings at the end to be revealed, because the coming pseudo-Christ is not here yet. His one-world system is not yet complete today. But I can guarantee you, you will know when it is complete if you're still alive. Let's just hope you don't think it's Christ and His Kingdom when that happens.

I'm relying on The Holy Spirit too, so please don't lay our fleshy weakness on Him. I don't claim to be perfect.

Oh, but the Reformers did claim the Catholic Church and the pope was the Antichrist. And many of today's Bible students I've talked to try to apply the ten kings having been a continuation of the old 'pagan' Roman empire while pointing directly to Catholic nations under the old papal king system, like you just did. So let's be honest about what we claim to follow.
Again you can not tell us who these ten kings/nations are, but yet they are found in Daniel 7 and through studying the history of these four Empires and the ten nations they represent. I presented Daniel's teaching on this, but you reject all of that which I gave you without you even taking the time to study all of this for yourself. Since you can not name them I can only assume you have never studied them.

I never claimed to be perfect nor am I am reformer/Protestant, but only a Spiritually born again child of God indwelled with His Holy Spirit rightly dividing the word of God as no man can teach me apart from the Holy Spirit.

1John 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
1John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
 

for_his_glory

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It's not time for those ten kings at the end to be revealed, because the coming pseudo-Christ is not here yet.
These ten nations were the Anglo-Saxons (Germans in Great Britain), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa. The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.

The ten horns are ten kings who have not yet received their kingdoms as the Vatican's New World Order Headquarters and the United Nations Organization, One Security Council that claims authority over the world are waiting for ten permanent members. In 2009 the UNO divided the world into ten economic regions and each one will have a Jesuit Provincial set over them, but their end will come with the glory of the Lord striking them down when He returns with us His army.

Ten Kingdoms of a One World Government:

Kingdom 1: Canada, Mexico and the United States of America
Kingdom 2: European Union – Western Europe
Kingdom 3: Japan
Kingdom 4: Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Israel and Pacific Islands
Kingdom 5: Eastern Europe
Kingdom 6: Latin America, Central and South America
Kingdom 7: North Africa and the Middle East
Kingdom 8: Central Africa
Kingdom 9: South and Southeast Asia
Kingdom 10: Central Asia
 
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JLB

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Here is an overview in the following —




Did you know that the European Union was an experiment that had long been planned by those behind a one world government? The idea is that if the European Union proved the success of political and economic integration then this model could be repeated across other world regions. Now we have the Africa Union and the coming North American Union. Other regions are still at the economic union-only stage but it is much easier to start off with economic union followed by political union rather than the other way around.

One should also not be fooled by the present chaos in Europe as this is part of the agenda for tightening political and economic unity known as the Hegelian concept, the principle of creating the chaos necessary to justify the changes needed for a required end.

This weeks report takes a look at the ongoing progression of what is known as the Club of Rome Model. A plot to destroy the sovereignty of individual and independent nations and replace it with a form of governance in which the power to create and enforce laws across all of the countries in the world will reside with just ten committees. If those committees elect a leader, then one could take this further and say, ten leaders.

The relevance of this is because of the prophecy of John in Revelation 17.

  • “The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast. They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings-and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.” Revelation 17:12-13


37D64C57-70BC-4DEC-A9F5-DF2E8118A72D.jpeg
 

DavidT

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The world in which Satan was placed in the garden of Eden before iniquity was found in him is the same world we live in today that God will make new again before ushing down the New Jerusalem so I don't know what you mean by an old world. There were no Empires or beast systems that Satan works through here on earth before the creation of man.
That idea that Satan "was placed in the garden of Eden before iniquity was found in him" was definitely not... the world we now live in. Reason is, when we first see "that old serpent" (Satan) in God's Garden, he is doing what? He is in his role as the Tempter, tempting Adam and Eve to disobey God. That means he had already rebelled at some point prior to that time.



1 John 3:8
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil;
for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.
KJV
 
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DavidT

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Revelation 12 takes place at the end of the age, and is associated with the great tribulation when Satan and his angels are cast down to the earth.

JLB
Well, not all of Revelation 12. Much of verses 1 through 5 are history.

Rev 12:1-5
12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:


That was about the first ordaining of God's Israel. Those symbols were first given in Genesis 37 about the 12 sons of Israel (Jacob), and the mother (moon) and father (sun) of Joseph.

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.


That above goes back to Eve, the mother of the Seed of The Woman that Christ would be born through.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.


The time of that "red dragon" there was prior to today's time, and was about Satan's original rebellion against God, which is when Satan drew a third of the stars (angels) into rebellion with him. By the time of Adam and Eve, he stood ready to devour her Child (symbolic family of Christ). And from that point forward, the devil tried to destroy the family that Christ would be born through, and even after by Herod).

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to His throne.
KJV


Jesus is that 'man Child', as He died on the cross and The Father raised Him, and He ascended to right hand of The Father's Throne in Heaven where His 2nd coming is still expecting. He is to eventually reign with that "rod of iron" over all nations, beginning at His 2nd coming. So even that is still future prophecy compared to our time today.
 

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Again you can not tell us who these ten kings/nations are, but yet they are found in Daniel 7 and through studying the history of these four Empires and the ten nations they represent. I presented Daniel's teaching on this, but you reject all of that which I gave you without you even taking the time to study all of this for yourself. Since you can not name them I can only assume you have never studied them.
The subject of "ten kings" mentioned in the Book of Daniel is in association with the beast of the feet of clay mixed with iron, which is the final piece of the Daniel 2 beast statue.

And because... the Book of Daniel shows that 'final' beast is destroyed when The Stone not cut out with hands, i.e., Jesus, smites that beast upon its feet of ten toes, then all... those pieces, "the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold", come tumbling down "together", that reveals that FINAL beast can ONLY be for the very END of this world, and not before.

Dan 2:34-35
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
KJV


And per the Book of Daniel, those 5 pieces represent:

1. "head of gold" = king Nebuchadnezzar and the Babylon empire
2. "breast and his arms of silver" = Medo-Persia empire which conquered Babylon.
3. "his belly and his thighs of brass" = Macedonian empire under Alexander the Great, conquered Medo-Persia.
4. "His legs of iron" = old Roman empire, conquered the above 3.
5. "his feet part of iron and part of clay" = UNKNOWN, FOR THE VERY END OF THIS WORLD.

ALL... those pieces are to be manifest at the END under that FINAL 5th one, for once again, that is what the Daniel 2:34-35 prophecy shows for the time of Christ's 2nd coming to destroy it and setup His Kingdom on earth that shall never be destroyed.
 

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These ten nations were the Anglo-Saxons (Germans in Great Britain), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa. The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.

The ten horns are ten kings who have not yet received their kingdoms as the Vatican's New World Order Headquarters and the United Nations Organization, One Security Council that claims authority over the world are waiting for ten permanent members. In 2009 the UNO divided the world into ten economic regions and each one will have a Jesuit Provincial set over them, but their end will come with the glory of the Lord striking them down when He returns with us His army.

Ten Kingdoms of a One World Government:

Kingdom 1: Canada, Mexico and the United States of America
Kingdom 2: European Union – Western Europe
Kingdom 3: Japan
Kingdom 4: Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Israel and Pacific Islands
Kingdom 5: Eastern Europe
Kingdom 6: Latin America, Central and South America
Kingdom 7: North Africa and the Middle East
Kingdom 8: Central Africa
Kingdom 9: South and Southeast Asia
Kingdom 10: Central Asia
That's all theory per certain denominations, of which I will not name.

We still do not know who the "ten kings" of Revelation 17 will be, because they will only appear when the beast king (i.e., false Messiah) shows up, and he is not here yet today. And they rule only "one hour" with the beast (i.e., beast king), which that "one hour" is a metaphor for the "great tribulation" time.

Rev 17:12-14
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings,
which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

14
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for He is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
KJV


And the fact that verse 14 above shows those "ten kings" will make war with The Lamb, that also reveals the time when they are revealed, and that "one hour" of their rule being at the very end, when false Messiah shows up for the great trib.
 

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Nowhere does it say he appeared in bodily form in those scriptures. You can not make scripture say what you want it to. Sure, all the movies depict Satan in bodily form tempting Christ, but do you really think that Satan can take on the form of man?

Satan, like any of Gods created angels as being disembodied spirits, can not take on human, or animal form, but can posses a human or an animals body and use them anyway he wants. This is why nation is against nation as Satan and his demons are working through others pitting these nations against each other always trying to be an earthly ruling evil power.
If you don't believe Satan can appear on earth in 'our' dimension with the image of man, then it shows you have not understood the following event, which is still yet future...

Rev 12:7-9
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not;
neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
KJV


What does that phrase in red mean exactly?

That phrase is about two different dimensions of existence written of in God's Word, this earthly one, and the one of spirit or heavenly one. In 1 Corinthians 15:42-54, Apostle Paul showed that distinction even with the idea of the "image of the earthy" vs. the "image of the heavenly", regarding our outward likeness image of our earthly body today, vs. our heavenly image of a "spiritual body" in the world to come. That is about the two different dimensions of existence. Per the Book of Job, we are shown that Satan is not bound to the heavenly dimension, because when God asks him what he has been doing, Satan replied by saying he has been walking up and down in the earth. Apostle Peter showed he is still able to roam also, like roaming lion seek whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8).

The above Scripture is giving us direct proof of just where that "dragon" (Satan) is to be cast to after that war in Heaven. Because it says, "neither was their place found any more in heaven", that means they are cast out of the Heavenly dimension totally. That is why the Scripture there then says the following...

Rev 12:10
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ:
for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."
KJV


Once Satan and his are cast out of Heaven, then in Heaven, Christ's Salvation is literally manifest without the Adversary there, accusing us to God's Face, much like he did with Job.

And since there are ONLY two different dimensions of existence written of in all of God's Word, there is only one other dimension that Satan and his angels can go to once cast out of Heaven, and that is here, on earth, in OUR earthly dimension. This is why the Scripture then reads...

Rev 12:11-12
11
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
KJV

That "short time" of course is a metaphor for the end, the time of "great tribulation". It is referred to as the "one hour" in Rev.17 when the "ten kings" rule with that beast at the end. It is the "eleventh hour" of the workers in the field, when servants were hired at the 'end', and worked only one hour and got paid the same as those who worked all day. It represents the 11th hour before midnight when the ten virgins fell asleep.

Satan will play that "vile person" and "little horn" on earth, per the Book of Daniel. That is how he will work those great signs and wonders and miracles which God's Word shows about the coming false one at the end, per Matthew 24:23-26; 2 Thessalonians 2; and Revelation 13:11 forward.

Here also is yet another tidbit of proof that Satan is coming literally to our earthly dimension at the end...

Ezek 28:18
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will
I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
KJV

In Ezekiel 28, God was giving a parable about Satan, using the historical prince and king of Tyrus. That above verse is God declaring how He is going to destroy Satan at the end, upon the earth, and in sight of all those who see it, again upon this earth.
 
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JLB

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The time of that "red dragon" there was prior to today's time,

The Red Dragon symbol represents Satan expressing his dominion through world government; The Ten Kings


That has not come to full fruition but is taking place right now before our very eyes.


And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne. Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days. Revelation 12:3-6



This takes place during the 3.5 years know as the great tribulation which is the last half of Daniel‘s 70th week.


  • Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.




JLB
 

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If you don't believe Satan can appear on earth in 'our' dimension with the image of man, then it shows you have not understood the following event, which is still yet future...

Rev 12:7-9
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not;
neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
KJV


What does that phrase in red mean exactly?
I agree Satan is cast down into the earth, but you can not read into those scriptures that he will transform himself into a human man.
 

JLB

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he will transform himself into a human man.


Can the three of us discuss this. I would like to hear what you guys have to say about this subject, and the following scripture.



As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay. And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. Daniel 2:43-44


  • they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay.

“They” refers to persons but the seed of men.



This scripture directly relates to the subject matter of the last days ten kings that are represented by the ten horns of Revelation 12.





JLB
 

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That idea that Satan "was placed in the garden of Eden before iniquity was found in him" was definitely not... the world we now live in. Reason is, when we first see "that old serpent" (Satan) in God's Garden, he is doing what? He is in his role as the Tempter, tempting Adam and Eve to disobey God. That means he had already rebelled at some point prior to that time.



1 John 3:8
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil;
for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.
KJV
Satan from the beginning of iniquity that was found in him has always caused nation to be against nation as he works his deceitfulness through others as a roaring lion seeking to devour.

The first battle mention in scripture is found in Genesis 14:1-24. Shinar, Ellasar and Elam became known later in scripture as being Babylon, which is now modern day Iraq. These kings have always fought and taken captive Gods covenant people starting with Lot who was Abraham's nephew in whom Abraham took his army and fought against these four eastern kings and defeated them. This first battle was about controlling power, greed and monopoly on international trade (economics) as they tried to defeat everyone who opposed them as they took captive not only possessions from others, but also held them captive those who would not bow down to their false gods. As history repeats itself this same ruling Empire that has exisited since the time of Abraham and going clear back to Nimrod and the Tower of Babel will also take place in the end of days when the beast rises out of the sea and gives power to the beast out of the earth who will exercise all the power of the first beast before him. The beast out of the earth will have ruling power over economics, political and a one order religion, Rev Chapter 13.

We know how history repeats itself as Jerusalem has been destroyed twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times as these eastern kings will always try to take posession of what God gave to Abraham through the covenant God made with him in Genesis 12:1-3 and all his generation after him. This will continue until the last day when Christ returns, John 6:40, as these four kings are that of the controlling power within the four nations Daniel speaks of in Daniel Chapter 7 with the last one that received a deadly wound, but the wound has been healed, Revelation 13:3. The four nations are: Babylonian Empire: Iraq (the lion), Medo, Persian Empire: Iran (the ribs of the bear), Grecian Empire: (Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt) four wings of the leopard, Roman Empire: (Iron represents the stronghold this nation had and still has). Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.

The beast rises up out of the sea as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15. The beast was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies and power was given unto him to continue for three and a half years which equals 1260 days, Daniel 7:25; 12:7; Revelation 11:2, 3. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints and to overcome them and power was given him over all kindred’s, and tongues, and nations as this beast is the same as the four eastern kings found in Genesis 14:1-24 and Daniel Chapter 7.

Notice the fourth king in Genesis 14:1 was king over many nations as Satan worked through him as well as the other three kings, Genesis 14:14:1. This is the same with the beast out of the earth, that is the son of perdition/last antichrist) that Satan works through who will try to devour all those of faith in God and His Son Christ Jesus, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12; Rev 13:11-18. Daniel 7:24, 25 and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, He will think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time (3 1/2 years). This fourth king (beast out of the earth) whose deadly wound came in 1798 and the wound was healed in 1929 is even now plotting for economic, political, military and religious control as he is the son of perdition who is the last false prophet (antichrist) who by lying signs and wonders will cause a great falling away from God, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 in as much as he can deceive the very elect if possible, Matthew 24:24.
 

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5. "his feet part of iron and part of clay" = UNKNOWN, FOR THE VERY END OF THIS WORLD.
But it is known and I have showed you it is the revived Roman Empire. I will give it to you again.


Roman Empire: (little horn, Daniel 8:9-14, 23-27)
Iron represents the stronghold this nation had. Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.

The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25; Rev 13:3. The deadly wound came in 1798 when General Berthier of France, who made his entrance into Rome, abolished the Roman government and established a secular one and captured Pope Pius VI, who soon died in captivity in Valence, on August 29, 1799. In 1801 Napoleon made an agreement with Pope Pius II establishing Napoleon’s Organic Articles of granting the Tribunal and the Corps legislative partial control of the concordat in order to help the state monitor any politically harmful Catholic or Protestant movements or activities. The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave the Vatican back to Pope Pius XI and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty.

The Roman Empire began in 753BC by Romulus who founded Rome in 27BC with Augustus Caesar becoming the first emperor of Rome in 27 BC and died in 14AD. Rome controlled over two million square miles stretching from the Rhine River to Egypt and from Britain (England) to Asia Minor which made up the Grecian Empire of Greece, Turkey, Syria and Egypt. In 146BC the Romans destroyed Corinth during the Battle of Corinth and made the Greece Empire into a province of the Roman Empire. This timeline goes from 753BC to 27BC. Nero burned Rome in 64AD and blamed the Christian community in the city causing the Roman Empires first persecution of Christians. In 1453 was the rise of the Ottoman Empire that conquered Constantinople destroying the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Roman Empire) that reigned from 330AD to 1453AD. The Roman Empire was then called the Holy Roman Empire that was a political entity beginning in 800AD - 1806AD from the time of Charlemagne (Holy Roman Emperor) who protected Pope Leo III from Adrian's supporters in Rome to Francis II, King of France. Pope Pius VII was the Pope from 1800-1823. The Roman Empire is known today as Vatican City, a city-state surrounded by Rome and Italy who has diplomatic relations with every nation around the world.

The crowns on its heads show that this dragon claims royal authority against the true King who is God of all creation as he prepares to take his seat above all that which is Gods Kingdom claiming he is God as he prepares to deceive the world through that of an existing Roman Empire, Daniel 8:9-12; Isaiah 14:12-15.

The beast rises up out of the sea, Rev 13, as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15. The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:15-28.

These ten nations were the Anglo-Saxons (Germans in Great Britain), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa. The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.

The beast out of the earth, Rev 13:11-18, is the revived Roman Empire (mystery Babylon, Rev 17:5) which causes man to take its mark. Daniel 7:25 and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, He will think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-12.
 

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Can the three of us discuss this. I would like to hear what you guys have to say about this subject, and the following scripture.



As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay. And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. Daniel 2:43-44


  • they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay.

“They” refers to persons but the seed of men.



This scripture directly relates to the subject matter of the last days ten kings that are represented by the ten horns of Revelation 12.





JLB
Unless there is something more specific you want to discuss I have given all of this in my post#118 and 119.
 
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