Nature of God? Christians?

[thessalonian]

Are non-trinitarians Christian and vice versa for the other?

There are enough discussions of this matter on other threads. Let's just vote and keep the discussion to the nature of a Christian and whether one can have a proper understanding of God and still be a Christian or not.

Seems we have a few camps on this board. So......

 

[thessalonian]

anyone else care to express their opinion. You don't have to attach your name to it.

 

[cj]

I got a question...... what was your motive for starting this thread?

In love,
cj

 

[thessalonian]

Curiosity. The question really is, is knowing the nature of God, critical to having a relationship with him? At least in my mind that is a critical question. Now what is your motive for asking what my motive is. :o

 

[cj]

Curiosity. The question really is, is knowing the nature of God, critical to having a relationship with him? At least in my mind that is a critical question. Now what is your motive for asking what my motive is. :o

They say its what killed the cat.



My motive was to have you tell us your motive.

In love,
cj

 

[thessalonian]

Curiosity. The question really is, is knowing the nature of God, critical to having a relationship with him? At least in my mind that is a critical question. Now what is your motive for asking what my motive is. :o

They say its what killed the cat.



My motive was to have you tell us your motive.

In love,
cj

So now you are ready to stick your neck out? It may get chopped off.

 

[thessalonian]

By the way cj, I must add that was remarkably clever of you to come up with that cliche. How ever did you think of it. :angel:

I have no reason to expect any ill healt affects for starting this thread. :

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Are non-trinitarians Christian and vice versa for the other?

There are enough discussions of this matter on other threads. Let's just vote and keep the discussion to the nature of a Christian and whether one can have a proper understanding of God and still be a Christian or not.

Seems we have a few camps on this board. So......

I'll bite:
Those who reject any portion of the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed are not Christian. There are many who accept the Creed who may not be Christian, God alone knows hearts.

Those who reject the Church are not Christian. There are many who are members of the Church who may not be Christian, God alone knows their hearts.

Those who reject the scriptures, the councils, and the traditions of the Church are not Christians. There are many who accept these who may not be Christian, God alone knows hearts.

Those who claim there was a time when the Son was not are not Christian. Likewise those who claim that Christ became God. Likewise those who claim that Christ is the Father, or that Christ wa once an angel.

I'll tell you what my motive is in answering: protecting the sheep by shooting over the top of the thorn bushes at the invading wolves.

Right understanding will neither save nor condemn a believer. Right response to authority- the authority that Christ vested in the Church- will. A retarded person can be saved, a rebel and apostate will not.

 

[thessalonian]

A retarded person can be saved, a rebel and apostate will not.

Hope you don't mind if I tuck that away in my apologetic book of tricks. Well said.

 

[JM]

When you die and go to heaven, when you finally see God, will you see three persons or Jesus?

 

[thessalonian]

When you die and go to heaven, when you finally see God, will you see three persons or Jesus?

Not the issue. Vote.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

When you die and go to heaven, when you finally see God, will you see three persons or Jesus?

If you die on the way back from the pub, maybe. (Just pick the guy in the middle and call Him "Lord.")

Jason's obfuscating cuz he's still sore over that last thread.

 

[JM]

When you die and go to heaven, when you finally see God, will you see three persons or Jesus?

If you die on the way back from the pub, maybe. (Just pick the guy in the middle and call Him "Lord.")

Jason's obfuscating cuz he's still sore over that last thread.

Nahhhh, I'm a non-obfuscating type of person...when coming home from the pub!

;-)

 

[thessalonian]

Well then jason, give it to us down and dirty with no obvuscations. Can someone who has an incorrect view of God "know" him and have a relationship with him? Are they Christian? It's not that difficult a question I don't think.

 

[JM]

Well then jason, give it to us down and dirty with no obvuscations. Can someone who has an incorrect view of God "know" him and have a relationship with him? Are they Christian? It's not that difficult a question I don't think.

NO!

 

[thessalonian]

Thanks dude. : You could record it above.

 

[Gary]

Are non-trinitarians Christian and vice versa for the other?

There are enough discussions of this matter on other threads. Let's just vote and keep the discussion to the nature of a Christian and whether one can have a proper understanding of God and still be a Christian or not.

Seems we have a few camps on this board. So......

I'll bite:
Those who reject any portion of the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed are not Christian. There are many who accept the Creed who may not be Christian, God alone knows hearts.

Those who reject the Church are not Christian. There are many who are members of the Church who may not be Christian, God alone knows their hearts.

Those who reject the scriptures, the councils, and the traditions of the Church are not Christians. There are many who accept these who may not be Christian, God alone knows hearts.

Those who claim there was a time when the Son was not are not Christian. Likewise those who claim that Christ became God. Likewise those who claim that Christ is the Father, or that Christ wa once an angel.

I'll tell you what my motive is in answering: protecting the sheep by shooting over the top of the thorn bushes at the invading wolves.

Right understanding will neither save nor condemn a believer. Right response to authority- the authority that Christ vested in the Church- will. A retarded person can be saved, a rebel and apostate will not.

So were you not a Christian when you were a Protestant Pastor (I believe that you claimed to be an ex-pastor) ... and you only became a "Christian" when you joined the Orthodox Church and changed your name? Is that right?

You reject many of the Roman Catholic traditions. You have said so yourself. You do not follow the Roman Catholic pope nor accept his authority. Does that then disqualify you again?

:-?

 

[cj]

I initially thought to say nothing, but this morning is another day.....


Lets take a look at this concluding statement of OC,

Right understanding will neither save nor condemn a believer. Right response to authority- the authority that Christ vested in the Church- will. A retarded person can be saved, a rebel and apostate will not.

The most obvious question then becomes...... If a person does not have the right understanding how can this person give the right response?


Truth be told, OC's statement above is quite foolish.


And why exactly,..... I mean other than the obvious reason,...... because OC is speaking in the typical manner of a fallen man, he is abiding in the environment of right and wrong, the environment of the law, which is really what his religion (actually, all religion) is about.

The matter of "right" and "wrong" finds its perfect definition in God's view of things, not man's view, and although man is being perfected in God's view man is not yet perfected and thus is yet to have God's perfect view.

Meaning man is unable to clearly see what is right and what is wrong.

And why?

Because "rightness", righteousness before God, is a matter of the motive of the heart; which is a matter of the motive source.

Having a living and being out of the proper source and thus motive is righteousness before God, having a living and being out of an improper source is unrighteousness before God.

Death still pervades our soul-life, or in other words, even saved men can still make a choice out the old-man, the death that still lingers within us.

A believer can seem to be worshipping the Lord (remaining under the authority of what might appear to be "the Church") for years, but it could be worship out of a motive of human duty to this believer's family tradition (something very common in religious institutions), and thus utterly without value before God.


Do any of us truly know when we speak how much of our speaking is God and how much is our fallen self?

Of course not.

Then what?

We hope.

Whuch is really what scripture says is the determining factor of our salvation.

Why?

Because faith, that which saves, the the substantiation of our hope.



And this is what the essence of the Nicene Creed is,... hope.

It starts with hope.......

"I believe......"

It speaks of our hope......

"...... and He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead;
Whose Kingdom shall have no end."

And it ends in hope.....

"I look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come."



Thus the only "right" response is hope;.... hope out of whatever measure of assurance God has given to each one of us.



And if any ever wonder why I take the stand I do against the lie and against those who perpetrate the lie, it is because it, and they, are for one purpose,... the stealing of a person's hope.



In love,
cj

 

[Imagican]

Well then jason, give it to us down and dirty with no obvuscations. Can someone who has an incorrect view of God "know" him and have a relationship with him? Are they Christian? It's not that difficult a question I don't think.

And HERE is where your confusion lies: You believe that the only 'correct' view of God, is YOURS. You refuse to allow my PERSONAL relationship with the Father and instead insist that I MUST do it YOUR WAY. Your way, is man'
s way. You have fallen into the trap that offers confusion and death. Accept love, and life my friend. Put away your 'childish' ways of man, and follow the Love of Jesus Christ and God.

I DON'T have to 'understand' God COMPLETELY to allow Him into my life. All I need do is accept His Son and the death He died for me, beg Him for forgiveness and allow Him into my heart. I don't need statues or priest to forgive me, i NEED God.

And Free, OC, I promise you this: God resents your insistence that I place 'your church' above Him in order to receive that which He has so FREELY offered to ALL. And guys, when it IS time for judgement, ALL the church in the world isn't going to make a difference in YOUR judgement. You will be there ALONE. You will answer ALONE. Christ will be there as intercessor, but YOUR life will be judged on YOU and NOT a man-made church that you followed. And all the faith in the world won't change this fact. So, for me, I choose faith in God and His Son. Man-made churches will come and go. But the love of God and His Son are ETERNAL and EVERLASTING. Place your faith in THEM, not the futile attempts of man to 'create' his own destiny.

CJ, my brother, this is what God is. You have hit it right on the head. The 'perfecting' of the Saints that the Word refers to is LOVE. Once we can over-come 'self' and the 'world' and let LOVE be our guide, we have obtained the 'perfect understanding' to which the word refers. God's love without the inclusion of man's inept understanding of it, THAT is the PERFECT understanding that we may have through Jesus Christ.

And CJ, it is obvious through your understanding that you are quickly approaching that which God desires for us. God Bless you brother.

Oh, and CJ, the purpose for this thread is obvious isn't it? Thess insists in a belief in his 'man-made' tradition which only allows one to see through the glass darkly. It is smudged with the dirt, dust, grime and blood of men's darkened hearts, and lest it be cleaned and polished through the LOVE of God and blood of Christ, it will always remain so. Let it go Thess. This is the 'same' hate that allowed the 'fathers of your faith' to murder the Saints that opposed them. Their way or death. NO, it's God's way or death eternal. I understand Him enough to KNOW this. It's about love my friends. And God has LOTS to go around.

MEC

 

[thessalonian]

And HERE is where your confusion lies: You believe that the only 'correct' view of God, is YOURS. You refuse to allow my PERSONAL relationship with the Father and instead insist that I MUST do it YOUR WAY. Your way, is man'
s way. You have fallen into the trap that offers confusion and death. Accept love, and life my friend. Put away your 'childish' ways of man, and follow the Love of Jesus Christ and God.

Hmmmm. I don't believe I answered the question. I just asked it. Why don't you reply to Jason. He said NO!.