News Flash!!! AVBunyan Loses It! Gets Demoted!!!

[AVBunyan]

A Scene in Heaven

Gabriel: “Looks like we lost another one – too bad.â€Â

Michael: “Who did we lose this time?â€Â

Gabriel: “Looks like we lost AVBunyan.†:

Michael: “Really, how did he blow it?â€Â

Gabriel: “No one knows for sure – nobody ever figured out how it happens. Maybe he sinned, forgot to repent or confess or quit believing, etc. We have yet to figure out how a blood-bought saint can lose everything Christ died for – beats the fire out of me!†:o

New Angel: “Let’s ask those “Lose It†folks on the 123 Forum – they always talk about it,â€Â

Michael: “Gabriel forgive the new angel – he is new and hasn’t been around very long. Those 123 “Lose Its†haven’t got a clue – they just take verses out of context or take practical verses and applies them to justification.â€Â

Gabriel: “Yea, make sure that new guy doesn’t get poking around that 123 Forum and those “Lose Its†for he will come out as fouled up as a Chinese fire drill! At any rate – it’s fixing to happen – AVBunyan is gettin the boot!â€Â

New Angel: “I’ve never seen his before what is going on here?â€Â

Gabriel: “Just watch – very sad. There is the Trinity lining to undo all that they did. The LORD is first. Look – he is unforgiving him, now he is unjustifiying him!!! This is too much to bear!. Now God is taking his adoption away. There goes his glorification and sanctification. It goes on and on and on.â€Â

New Angel: “How long does this go on? this is unbearable!â€Â

Michael: “There are about 38 things that the LORD has to undo that He himself made sure took place.â€Â

Angel: “I thought according to Eccl 3:14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: - I guess I’ve been reading that wrong.†:

Michael: “I thought Phil 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: - I thought this would cover it.â€Â

Hosts: “No – those 123 folks will always tell you what they think it means not what it says.†:roll:

Gabriel: “Here comes the Holy Spirit! Look he is unregenerating him, unsealing him. Oh, this is painful!â€Â

Michael: “Ok, it’s about over now – all that has to be done is for the Spirit to uncircumcize him and then take him out of Christ’s physical body and then the LORD kicks him out of heaven.â€Â

New Angel: “There AV goes – he has actually been kicked out after being raised up to seat in heavenly places in Christ – incredible!â€Â

Angel: â€ÂImagine that – look at the look on Christ’s face. He’s got to wondering why he even bothered suffering on the cross anyway – it is as though Christ died in vain!!! All that work for nothing – I guess what Christ did at Calvary wasn’t enough.â€Â

Michael: “Well, all is not lost – AVBunyan might be back.†:o

New Angel: “Really?â€Â

Gabriel: “O yea, these “Lose Its†believe that AV might repent, or start believing again – but at some point in time he starts to be a good boy again and gets saved again. We don’t know how that works out since we can’t find it in the Bible but they believe it.â€Â

Michael: “See, Look – AV is back – it has been only a week!!! But AV is back! Looks like he is a good boy againâ€Â

Hosts of heaven: “Hip, hip, hoorah!!! Yea, for AV!!!â€Â

Michael: “Look the Trinity is reapplying all those 38 things again!â€Â

Gabriel: “This is confusing – I’m as confused as a termite in a yoyo.â€Â

New angel: “This process irritates me – I’m as irritated as a hippo with chapped lips.â€Â

Angel: “I’m frustrated as a girffe with a sore throat!â€Â

I think you get the idea. Sounds ridiculous but since you folks couldn’t show me how the saint could lose all that Christ did I decided to go for it.

Now – I can understand how a saint can get saved and then get under some bad Bible teaching and think he can lose it.

But – for those who promote this wicked, vile teaching – for those who vehemently defend it, support it and relish in it then I count them as lost and on their way to a lake of fire carrying their repentings, their confessions, their good deeds, their faith, their beliefs, etc. The gospel of the grace of God is hid from them – they are blinded to the true gospel and promote a false gospel of faith plus works.

Have a nice day! :o

 

[Heidi]

You mean the room assigned to Av in heaven was actually given to another guy? :o Or was God wrong about Av when he chose him before the creation of the world to do good works that God prepared for him in advance? :o Or maybe Christ didn't die for him but others instead. So why didn't he tell us? And jesus seems to be confused when he said; "You didn't choose me, I chose you." Or maybe jesus was wrong also about his chosen.

Boy, I don't know about this God guy. He seems to really be making a lot of mistakes, so who do we trust now? :-?

 

[farley]

Heh, heh, heh...thanks for all these good laughs, AV!!!

I love humor!

I guess humor makes it easier to embrace a false interpretation, while condeming a lot of clear, rational scripture.

When one endorses predestination, while counting oneself one of the elect (I guess this means you have foreknowledge, too!), before Judgment Day, then teaches OSAS through Christ's faith in them, to evangelize those predestined to condemnation, it starts getting amusing.

You also seem to enjoy chopping the NT up into sections that fit your interpretations. Pre-Calvary, post-Calvary, pre-body, post-body, Jew, Gentile, etc. In your other thread you even indicated the parable about the seeds, and the one about the vine, don't apply to us. They are in the NT. They were spoken pre-cross. I've always thought ALL of the NT Scriptures were timeless, ESPECIALLY the parables!

2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJV
(16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
(17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

And, going back to your position on faith, you seem to be able to chop faith up into at least a couple of different categories. Our faith in Christ, Christ's faith in you, positional faith, and I forget what else.

As I pointed out in another thread, the eleventh chapter of Hebrews is dedicated to the subject of faith, the definition of faith and multiple examples of faith...however, your example of faith is not there. Why is that?

The Bible tells us that there is only ONE faith. This sort of negates your take on faith, doesn't it, AV.

Ephesians 4:4-6 KJV
(4) There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
(5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
(6) One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

One faith, AV, get it! See above! One faith!!! The same faith talked about in Hebrews 11.

I am sorry to burst your bubble, AV, because this in NOT funny. What WILL be funny, I'm sure, will be your response to this post.

In Christ,

farley

 

[AVBunyan]

The Bible tells us that there is only ONE faith. This sort of negates your take on faith, doesn't it, AV.

One faith, AV, get it! See above! One faith!!! The same faith talked about in Hebrews 11.

The issue here is not Hebrews but Galatians and Romans where justifcatioin is found and where you can't seem to get it.

One faith - Christ's faith of Gal. 2:16 and Rom. 3:22 - the faith that justifies is the faith I'm talking about.

You stick with your faith taken from the Roman Catholic Bibles for justifying yourself.

I'll stick with Christ's faith.

 

[Heidi]

Heh, heh, heh...thanks for all these good laughs, AV!!!

I love humor!

I guess humor makes it easier to embrace a false interpretation, while condeming a lot of clear, rational scripture.

When one endorses predestination, while counting oneself one of the elect (I guess this means you have foreknowledge, too!), before Judgment Day, then teaches OSAS through Christ's faith in them, to evangelize those predestined to condemnation, it starts getting amusing.

You also seem to enjoy chopping the NT up into sections that fit your interpretations. Pre-Calvary, post-Calvary, pre-body, post-body, Jew, Gentile, etc. In your other thread you even indicated the parable about the seeds, and the one about the vine, don't apply to us. They are in the NT. They were spoken pre-cross. I've always thought ALL of the NT Scriptures were timeless, ESPECIALLY the parables!

2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJV
(16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
(17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

And, going back to your position on faith, you seem to be able to chop faith up into at least a couple of different categories. Our faith in Christ, Christ's faith in you, positional faith, and I forget what else.

As I pointed out in another thread, the eleventh chapter of Hebrews is dedicated to the subject of faith, the definition of faith and multiple examples of faith...however, your example of faith is not there. Why is that?

The Bible tells us that there is only ONE faith. This sort of negates your take on faith, doesn't it, AV.

Ephesians 4:4-6 KJV
(4) There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
(5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
(6) One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

One faith, AV, get it! See above! One faith!!! The same faith talked about in Hebrews 11.

I am sorry to burst your bubble, AV, because this in NOT funny. What WILL be funny, I'm sure, will be your response to this post.

In Christ,

farley

So you don't believe Ephesians 1:4 that we were created before the creation of the world, predestined to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ. Is that correct?

 

[farley]

Heidi,

Predestination is spoken of in the scriptures, as you mention. Therefore, predestination does exist.

My problem is with man's interpretation of predestination.

John Calvin's interpretation of predestination conflicts with huge amounts of scripture.

Maybe you have a definition of predestination that is in total harmony with the Bible. I'm confident that one exists. I have yet to find it.

In Christ,

farley

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Oh I love it!!!!!!

But you forgot one thing!!!!

Being 'UNBORN' somehow. ha haaaaaaaaaa

 

[Heidi]

Heidi,

Predestination is spoken of in the scriptures, as you mention. Therefore, predestination does exist.

My problem is with man's interpretation of predestination.

John Calvin's interpretation of predestination conflicts with huge amounts of scripture.

Maybe you have a definition of predestination that is in total harmony with the Bible. I'm confident that one exists. I have yet to find it.

In Christ,

farley

Yes, I can offer one. God's chosen were indeed created before the creation of the world to come to Christ. "You did not choose me, I chose you." "Only the Father knows the Son and the Son knows the Father and those whom the Son chooses to reveal him to. " "I have revealed you to those you have given me for they were yours." "They stumble because they disobey the message-which is also what they are destined for."

There are many other verses that say that God already chose his believers including, "I have many more that belong to this sheep pen. I have to bring them in also."

But the whole key to the predestination issue is that none of us knows if we are called or not until we either receive the Holy Spirit or die. Therefore, not only is salvation open to all, but we are all then completely and totally accountable for our actions, attitudes, and beiefs. And especially atheists because they do not believe in God or the devil.

the best analogy for this is the relationship between parents and children. The parent creates an environment for his children to feel free to make choices. Now the child thinks he is making his own choices when in reality, the parent has created the environment for him to do so. But it is paramount for the child to think they are his decisions so he can take responsibility for his actions. And that is how God treats us. This interpretation contradicts nothing in scripture. It gives God the credit for our salvation but at the same time holds us accountable. This is the only interpretation that reconciles scripture into agreement.

 

[farley]

Heidi,

Thanks for your response. I'm not in agreement with you on this issue, but at least you, like me, are out here scratching for the Truth.

I have placed the subject of Predestination into a category with several other topics which I've found beyond my abilities to understand, such as millennialism.

The understanding of some of these subjects, in my view, are not essential to one's salvation.

Therefore, if even man's severest interpretation of predestination is accurate, such as Calvinism, then it is out of my hands anyway.

And, if any other less severe interpretation of predestination prooves true, then I'm thinking that I need to be busy believing and obeying God's word!

In Christ,

farley

 

[guibox]

The best analogy for this is the relationship between parents and children. The parent creates an environment for his children to feel free to make choices. Now the child thinks he is making his own choices when in reality, the parent has created the environment for him to do so. But it is paramount for the child to think they are his decisions so he can take responsibility for his actions. And that is how God treats us. This interpretation contradicts nothing in scripture. It gives God the credit for our salvation but at the same time holds us accountable. This is the only interpretation that reconciles scripture into agreement.

However, the parent doesn't arrange it so the child can no longer make the choice. Your analogy breaks down when we see that God is guiding some straight to hell because they are 'not called'. This is wrong. Either man has the choice to choose God or reject Him. If they reject Him, then it was because of their choice not because God 'willed it' or 'steered him to that decision'. If He did, then God is not all loving and should have destroyed Satan right off the bat in heaven. If freedom of choice is merely an illusion, then the misery of our lives (nay, even the mere existence of our lives) was nothing short of redundancy. We were merely one big experiment.

Heidi, why not take it to the next level? If God's grace was for all and His grace is powerful enough that we cannot lose it, wouldn't this apply to everyone then? Freedom of choice doesn't exist before or after accepting God. We are drawn and called and we cannot lose what we get. So God's grace is only conditional on a non-existent freedom to choose Him? I guess God's grace ISN'T all powerful. At the least you are saying that we have the freedom of choice to choose Him but lose that freedom of choice after we choose Him. What kind of backwards theology is that?

You rail so vehemently against Universalism but what YOU are preaching is WORSE then Universalism and fundamentalism. At least with fundamentalism, sinners choose to send themselves to a firey hell of eternity instead of God choosing to send them there and making them think they actually had the choice.

 

[Heidi]

The best analogy for this is the relationship between parents and children. The parent creates an environment for his children to feel free to make choices. Now the child thinks he is making his own choices when in reality, the parent has created the environment for him to do so. But it is paramount for the child to think they are his decisions so he can take responsibility for his actions. And that is how God treats us. This interpretation contradicts nothing in scripture. It gives God the credit for our salvation but at the same time holds us accountable. This is the only interpretation that reconciles scripture into agreement.

However, the parent doesn't arrange it so the child can no longer make the choice. Your analogy breaks down when we see that God is guiding some straight to hell because they are 'not called'. This is wrong. Either man has the choice to choose God or reject Him. If they reject Him, then it was because of their choice not because God 'willed it' or 'steered him to that decision'. If He did, then God is not all loving and should have destroyed Satan right off the bat in heaven. If freedom of choice is merely an illusion, then the misery of our lives (nay, even the mere existence of our lives) was nothing short of redundancy. We were merely one big experiment.

Heidi, why not take it to the next level? If God's grace was for all and His grace is powerful enough that we cannot lose it, wouldn't this apply to everyone then? Freedom of choice doesn't exist before or after accepting God. We are drawn and called and we cannot lose what we get. So God's grace is only conditional on a non-existent freedom to choose Him? I guess God's grace ISN'T all powerful. At the least you are saying that we have the freedom of choice to choose Him but lose that freedom of choice after we choose Him. What kind of backwards theology is that?

You rail so vehemently against Universalism but what YOU are preaching is WORSE then Universalism and fundamentalism. At least with fundamentalism, sinners choose to send themselves to a firey hell of eternity instead of God choosing to send them there and making them think they actually had the choice.

Sorry, but if the parent arranges it so that the child doesn't make "free" choices, then the parent has again controlled the child's environment, has he not? The child's responses will then be completely different because of his parent's actions. Therefore your whole post is a contradiction.

Again, God is in control of the universe. But because of the sin of pride, we humans think we are which of course, is a lie.

I do not, nor cannot, take credit for God's work. So I will not take credit for th ability to believe because faith is a gift from God, not from ourselves so that we cannot boast. None of us is above the Holy Spirit or the devil. They are the 2 forces larger than human beings which means we are ruled by one or the other. Therefore, free will is a myth.