Ed the Ned
Member
"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more" Revelations 21 vs 1 esv.
Will there be no more sea?
Will there be no more sea?
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No more Sea?
- Thread starter Ed the Ned
- Start date
The book of Revelation was "presented...in signs".(Rev 1:1) Thus, this book is mostly symbolic. That the earth and heavens are permanent, Psalms 104: 5 says that God "laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever."(King James Bible) And Ecclesiastes 1:4 says that "one generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever."(King James Bible) Proverbs 3:19 says that "Jehovah by wisdom founded the earth; By understanding he established the heavens."(American Standard Version)
Hence, the earth and heavens are permanent, lasting forever. The expression at Revelation 21:1, of "a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more" is symbolic. The "former heavens" are what people look up to, and here these represent all human governments, which are under Satan's control. The "former earth" is mankind alienated from God. These symbolic heavens and earth will not survive the heat of divine anger during Jehovah’s great day.(Rev 16:14,16)
The passing away of “the former heaven†means the end of political governments along with Satan and his demons. This identification of “the former heaven†harmonizes with the fact that shortly before the statement concerning the ‘former heaven having passed away,’ John had seen a vision of the complete defeat of Satan’s forces and the casting of Satan into “the abyss.†(Re 19:19–20:3)
The symbolic "sea" is the part of mankind alienated from God that is especially restless, like the waves of the literal sea that never stops moving. Isaiah 57:20 says that "the wicked are like the sea that is being tossed, when it is unable to calm down, the waters of which keep tossing up seaweed and mire." These are elements that create division, stirring up great troubles.
The "former heaven and the former earth....and the sea" are removed and replaced with "a new heaven and a new earth", the "new heaven" being God's kingdom and the "new earth" being the ‘peoples of mankind’, on this earth, who are its subjects and who receive the blessings of its rule forever, as depicted in verses 3 and 4. Of the "new earth", Psalms 37:29 says that "the righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever."(King James Bible)
Hence, the earth and heavens are permanent, lasting forever. The expression at Revelation 21:1, of "a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more" is symbolic. The "former heavens" are what people look up to, and here these represent all human governments, which are under Satan's control. The "former earth" is mankind alienated from God. These symbolic heavens and earth will not survive the heat of divine anger during Jehovah’s great day.(Rev 16:14,16)
The passing away of “the former heaven†means the end of political governments along with Satan and his demons. This identification of “the former heaven†harmonizes with the fact that shortly before the statement concerning the ‘former heaven having passed away,’ John had seen a vision of the complete defeat of Satan’s forces and the casting of Satan into “the abyss.†(Re 19:19–20:3)
The symbolic "sea" is the part of mankind alienated from God that is especially restless, like the waves of the literal sea that never stops moving. Isaiah 57:20 says that "the wicked are like the sea that is being tossed, when it is unable to calm down, the waters of which keep tossing up seaweed and mire." These are elements that create division, stirring up great troubles.
The "former heaven and the former earth....and the sea" are removed and replaced with "a new heaven and a new earth", the "new heaven" being God's kingdom and the "new earth" being the ‘peoples of mankind’, on this earth, who are its subjects and who receive the blessings of its rule forever, as depicted in verses 3 and 4. Of the "new earth", Psalms 37:29 says that "the righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever."(King James Bible)
:yesAt Revelation 13:1, it says that the "dragon...stood upon the sand of the sea." John now sees "a wild beast ascending out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, and upon its horns ten diadems, but upon its heads blasphemous names." Thus, from among the masses of restless mankind, have the "dragon's" or Satan's entire political system of things came forth. All human governments are therefore the product of the "dragon" or Satan.
In the year 553 B.C.E., Daniel "happened to be beholding in my visions during the night, and, see there! the four winds of the heavens were stirring up the vast sea. And four huge beasts were coming up out of the sea, each one being different from the others."(Dan 7:2, 3) Hence, from the "sea" of wicked mankind alienated from God, came forth "four huge beasts", governmental systems, which were ancient Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome.
The "wild beast" seen at Revelation 13 pictures all human governments existing during the "Lord's day"(Rev 1:10, King James Bible), the time period beginning with Jesus enthronement as king in 1914. It is seen as having "ten horns and seven heads", with the number "ten" representing earthly completeness and thus all human governments on earth. The "seven heads" represent the seven world powers that have had direct influence over God's people. These were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome and in our day, the Anglo-American dual world of Britain and America.
These have arisen from the "sea", with wicked restless mankind creating individual human governments rather than submit to God's sovereignty. All these human governments are in opposition to God and that is why God has an appointed time soon to permanently remove them from the earth at the "war of the great day of God the Almighty"(Rev 16:14), called Armageddon.(Rev 16:16, King James Bible)
In the year 553 B.C.E., Daniel "happened to be beholding in my visions during the night, and, see there! the four winds of the heavens were stirring up the vast sea. And four huge beasts were coming up out of the sea, each one being different from the others."(Dan 7:2, 3) Hence, from the "sea" of wicked mankind alienated from God, came forth "four huge beasts", governmental systems, which were ancient Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome.
The "wild beast" seen at Revelation 13 pictures all human governments existing during the "Lord's day"(Rev 1:10, King James Bible), the time period beginning with Jesus enthronement as king in 1914. It is seen as having "ten horns and seven heads", with the number "ten" representing earthly completeness and thus all human governments on earth. The "seven heads" represent the seven world powers that have had direct influence over God's people. These were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome and in our day, the Anglo-American dual world of Britain and America.
These have arisen from the "sea", with wicked restless mankind creating individual human governments rather than submit to God's sovereignty. All these human governments are in opposition to God and that is why God has an appointed time soon to permanently remove them from the earth at the "war of the great day of God the Almighty"(Rev 16:14), called Armageddon.(Rev 16:16, King James Bible)
nadab said:
Good points,
When Jesus makes a New Heaven and a New earth, He will not destroy the physical universe to receate it. He makes all things new, I believe means He makes all things spiritual, He takes away the curse of the earth.
And like we become new creations in Christ, we don't change our physical bodies but are changed from the inside out. Or when we say New Jerusalem. Or when we say New wine.
The natural stays but the blessing will be on the land, when the whole world turns to Jesus, He will bless our land.
And when Satan is cast out of heaven and then destroyed forever then we have a New heaven, with no more evil in Heaven and on earth. Amen.
When Jesus arrived on the earth in the first century as the Messiah, few realized that the "appointed time" had come for his appearance, especially the religious leaders. Jesus told them: "In the evening you say, 'It will be fine weather, for the sky is red;' and in the morning, 'It will be rough weather to-day, for the sky is red and murky.' You learn how to distinguish the aspect of the heavens, but the signs of the times you cannot."(Matt 16:2, 3, Weymouth's New Testament)
Daniel 9:25 had given the exact year in which the Messiah or Christ would arrive, being "from the going forth of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until Mes·si´ah the Leader, there will be seven weeks, also sixty-two weeks." Thus, from the " going forth of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem" in 455 B.C.E when King Artaxerxes gave the command to Nehemiah concerning Jerusalem (Neh 2), 69 weeks of years (483 years) would pass, until the Messiah or Christ came forth in 29 C.E. Only a handful of people came to see this as true, whereas the religious leaders and general masses of people were "in the dark", unaware that God's "appointed time" had now arrived.
Likewise concerning Jesus enthronement in 1914. When the Pharisees asked "when the kingdom of God was coming", Jesus told them that "the kingdom of God is not coming with striking observableness".(Luke 17:20) These Pharisees were unable to recognize that the king-designate of God's kingdom was right in front of them, ' in their midst'.(Luke 17:21, Montgomery New Testament) Hence, most would not discern when God's kingdom began operation.
Three days before his death, Jesus told his disciples that the "sign" of the kingdom's arrival (Matt 24:3), his "promised presence"(2 Pet 3:3,4), would have specific features, with "nation will ris(ing) against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another."(Matt 24:7) He then said that these are "a beginning of pangs of distress."(Matt 24:8) However, only a small number would discern that Jesus had been crowned king of God's kingdom, it now beginning operation in 1914, for Jesus said that only those who were like "eagles" could "see" that "kingdom" was now operational, though the evidence was readily apparent, in effect coming out "of eastern parts and shines over western parts".(Matt 24:27,28)
When was the first time that the world was engulfed in global conflict ? When World War I erupted in 1914, followed by "food shortages". Jesus further had said that "pestilences" would occur. One such epidemic of disease was the Spanish Influenza that epidemiologist estimated took upward of 100 million lives over the course of 1918-1919.
Thus, 1914 was a marked year, a year that even Alan Greenspan, former chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, noted a marked change, saying: "By all contemporaneous accounts, the world prior to 1914 seemed to be moving irreversibly toward higher levels of civility and civilization; human society seemed perfectible." But "World War I was more devastating to civility and civilization than the physically far more destructive World War II: the earlier conflict had destroyed an idea. I cannot erase the thought of those pre-World War I years, when the future of mankind appeared unencumbered and without limit. Today our outlook is starkly different from a century ago but perhaps a bit more consonant with reality."(The Age of Turbulence: Adventures in a New World, 2007)
Daniel 9:25 had given the exact year in which the Messiah or Christ would arrive, being "from the going forth of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until Mes·si´ah the Leader, there will be seven weeks, also sixty-two weeks." Thus, from the " going forth of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem" in 455 B.C.E when King Artaxerxes gave the command to Nehemiah concerning Jerusalem (Neh 2), 69 weeks of years (483 years) would pass, until the Messiah or Christ came forth in 29 C.E. Only a handful of people came to see this as true, whereas the religious leaders and general masses of people were "in the dark", unaware that God's "appointed time" had now arrived.
Likewise concerning Jesus enthronement in 1914. When the Pharisees asked "when the kingdom of God was coming", Jesus told them that "the kingdom of God is not coming with striking observableness".(Luke 17:20) These Pharisees were unable to recognize that the king-designate of God's kingdom was right in front of them, ' in their midst'.(Luke 17:21, Montgomery New Testament) Hence, most would not discern when God's kingdom began operation.
Three days before his death, Jesus told his disciples that the "sign" of the kingdom's arrival (Matt 24:3), his "promised presence"(2 Pet 3:3,4), would have specific features, with "nation will ris(ing) against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another."(Matt 24:7) He then said that these are "a beginning of pangs of distress."(Matt 24:8) However, only a small number would discern that Jesus had been crowned king of God's kingdom, it now beginning operation in 1914, for Jesus said that only those who were like "eagles" could "see" that "kingdom" was now operational, though the evidence was readily apparent, in effect coming out "of eastern parts and shines over western parts".(Matt 24:27,28)
When was the first time that the world was engulfed in global conflict ? When World War I erupted in 1914, followed by "food shortages". Jesus further had said that "pestilences" would occur. One such epidemic of disease was the Spanish Influenza that epidemiologist estimated took upward of 100 million lives over the course of 1918-1919.
Thus, 1914 was a marked year, a year that even Alan Greenspan, former chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, noted a marked change, saying: "By all contemporaneous accounts, the world prior to 1914 seemed to be moving irreversibly toward higher levels of civility and civilization; human society seemed perfectible." But "World War I was more devastating to civility and civilization than the physically far more destructive World War II: the earlier conflict had destroyed an idea. I cannot erase the thought of those pre-World War I years, when the future of mankind appeared unencumbered and without limit. Today our outlook is starkly different from a century ago but perhaps a bit more consonant with reality."(The Age of Turbulence: Adventures in a New World, 2007)
Ed the Ned said:
If you have a chance to be in Hades, you will understand right away that it is a huge "Sea".
So the Bible consistently hints about this characteristic of the death place.
Baptism - means you are dead, buried ( in water ), and raised again as Jesus Christ did.
Red Sea - means Moses led the Jews went across the sea to Canan. It hints that the Greater Jesus will lead both Jews and Gentiles go across the "Sea of Hades" to New Heaven and New Earth.
Noah's Ark - a huge ark carried the saved from being buried by the sea. Another huge spiritual ark is under building that all the saved will be carried to the New Heaven and New Earth. They are saved from the water ( "Sea" ).
...
So "there is no more sea" in New Earth could be both physical and symbolical.
Ed the Ned said:
That's what the Scripture says, and that's what It means, literally. It is not symbolic. It's for the future new heavens and a new earth timing, i.e., God's Eternity. All of God's Word is literal, meaning even the many parables or metaphors and allegories used still point to very literal truths. In Rev.13:1 and 17:15 the sea or waters represents peoples, nations, tongues, and multitudes. Clearly those will not be gone in the world to come, because it would go against God's promise that the meek shall inherit the earth. God said in Isaiah 45:18 that He created this earth to be inhabited, to be lived upon, and it will be, even through Eternity. He's going to bring a shaking of this earth, and a consuming fire to end this present world order (per 2 Peter 3 and end of Hebrews 12).
PM me if you want to go any deeper than that.
God's Word speaks of three literal periods of earth history. Peter covered those in 2 Peter 3 with "the world that then was", the "heavens and the earth, which are now" (today), and the "new heavens and a new earth".
There's some debate on what that first period was. But the second period, the "heavens and the earth, which are now" is about today's time. Peter says this period we are in today will eventually be burned up, the heavens being on fire. The Greek word 'stoicheon' ("elements") used in 2 Pet.3:10 means an orderly arrangement, not physical elements like earth matter. Paul at the end of Hebrews 12 showed that a consuming fire will destroy the things off this earth made by man, so that only the things made by God will remain.
So the subject is about the same kind of end of the world that ended the first period of the earth's history, by a flood, except this next one will be by fire. The first period end wiped all the inhabitants off the earth, cleansing the surface of the earth. It did not literally destroy earth matter, only the surface was cleansed of man's order. Likewise it will be with the next one by fire. That's part of what Paul was talking about on the "last trump" change to our "spiritual body" at the "twinkling of an eye", meaning it will happen as fast as one can blink. In Isaiah it's said to come at an instant.
Naturally, because of how comfortable many have become with this earth period we're in now, they don't want this world to end. But those in Christ Jesus are to have a hope for that future period, when Judgment will come, and there will finally be true peace on the earth with Christ reigning with His elect priests and kings. Those in Christ are given a comfort Message about that coming consuming fire event. It's the event of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego cast into the hot fiery furnace heated seven times hotter than necessary, but with their coming out of it unharmed, their clothes not even smelling of smoke because of Christ being with them (Dan.3).
God ending the world that then was certainly was not symbolic, it was literal. The future ending of this world won't be symbolic either.
There's some debate on what that first period was. But the second period, the "heavens and the earth, which are now" is about today's time. Peter says this period we are in today will eventually be burned up, the heavens being on fire. The Greek word 'stoicheon' ("elements") used in 2 Pet.3:10 means an orderly arrangement, not physical elements like earth matter. Paul at the end of Hebrews 12 showed that a consuming fire will destroy the things off this earth made by man, so that only the things made by God will remain.
So the subject is about the same kind of end of the world that ended the first period of the earth's history, by a flood, except this next one will be by fire. The first period end wiped all the inhabitants off the earth, cleansing the surface of the earth. It did not literally destroy earth matter, only the surface was cleansed of man's order. Likewise it will be with the next one by fire. That's part of what Paul was talking about on the "last trump" change to our "spiritual body" at the "twinkling of an eye", meaning it will happen as fast as one can blink. In Isaiah it's said to come at an instant.
Naturally, because of how comfortable many have become with this earth period we're in now, they don't want this world to end. But those in Christ Jesus are to have a hope for that future period, when Judgment will come, and there will finally be true peace on the earth with Christ reigning with His elect priests and kings. Those in Christ are given a comfort Message about that coming consuming fire event. It's the event of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego cast into the hot fiery furnace heated seven times hotter than necessary, but with their coming out of it unharmed, their clothes not even smelling of smoke because of Christ being with them (Dan.3).
God ending the world that then was certainly was not symbolic, it was literal. The future ending of this world won't be symbolic either.
veteran said:
I agree with a great deal of what you have written on various threads Veteran...and by the way, welcome to the forum
. However, on this topic I believe the "no more sea" is spiritual. I'm glad you mentioned the first age as it needs to be taught more. That was the age in which Satan rebelled.