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Notice How Post Tribbers Avoid "harpazo /catching away" in I Thes. 4:17.

Jacob62

 
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"We which are still alive will be caught up."

The Post Tribbers have no ability to integrate that statement into their ideas. They never say a thing about it, and the unexpected suddenness of it happening without the duress of Tribulation being present.

People in society will be just going along with their lives of conducting business and domestic activity. Then, the immediate rapture will happen. But only for those looking for it. The Church and Holy Spirit will then be gone, and all Hell will break loose on the Earth under the Antichrist.

It will not be "tribulation" for 7 or 3-1/2 years, because only the Saints go through Tribulation, not the lost. The Saints will be will be gone, hence no "tribulation" will be there. This is much more simple and Scriptural than Believers having to tough it out through the Antichrist, mark of the Beast, and martyrdom.

Titus 3:5 states "We are saved through the washing of regeneration and the renewal of the Holy Spirit," not by tribulation or martyrdom. You now are accountable for knowing the Truth of Scripture. That is a statement used both in Scripture and by many preachers. "To those whom much has been given, much will be required."
 

JLB

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"We which are still alive will be caught up."

The Post Tribbers have no ability to integrate that statement into their ideas. They never say a thing about it, and the unexpected suddenness of it happening without the duress of Tribulation being present.

People in society will be just going along with their lives of conducting business and domestic activity. Then, the immediate rapture will happen. But only for those looking for it. The Church and Holy Spirit will then be gone, and all Hell will break loose on the Earth under the Antichrist.

It will not be "tribulation" for 7 or 3-1/2 years, because only the Saints go through Tribulation, not the lost. The Saints will be will be gone, hence no "tribulation" will be there. This is much more simple and Scriptural than Believers having to tough it out through the Antichrist, mark of the Beast, and martyrdom.

Titus 3:5 states "We are saved through the washing of regeneration and the renewal of the Holy Spirit," not by tribulation or martyrdom. You now are accountable for knowing the Truth of Scripture. That is a statement used both in Scripture and by many preachers. "To those whom much has been given, much will be required."

The Day of the Lord will not come as a thief in the night for true followers of Jesus Christ.


  • But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.

For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 1 Thessalonians 5:2-4



You do understand that the Day of the Lord is the destruction of the wicked left on earth after the resurrection and rapture, in which Hs people are caught up together in the clouds, and are safely with Him in the air?


You understand this, right?





JLB
 

Jacob62

 
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The Day of the Lord will not come as a thief in the night for true followers of Jesus Christ.


  • But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.

For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 1 Thessalonians 5:2-4



You do understand that the Day of the Lord is the destruction of the wicked left on earth after the resurrection and rapture, in which Hs people are caught up together in the clouds, and are safely with Him in the air?


You understand this, right?





JLB
Do you understand, or reject, the "harpazo" of 1Thes. 4:17?
 

JLB

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Do you understand, or reject, the "harpazo" of 1Thes. 4:17?

No I don’t reject the catching up of those who are alive and remain.

Why would anyone reject that we who are alive and remain will be “caught up” together with them.

The catching up is in harmony with the resurrection in which the dead in Christ will rise first, then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.


The rapture occurs at His coming.


Again,

You do understand that the Day of the Lord is the destruction of the wicked including the antichrist who are left on earth after the resurrection and rapture, in which His people are caught up together in the clouds, and are safely with Him in the air?


You understand this, right?




JLB
 

Jacob62

 
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No I don’t reject the catching up of those who are alive and remain.

Why would anyone reject that we who are alive and remain will be “caught up” together with them.

The catching up is in harmony with the resurrection in which the dead in Christ will rise first, then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.


The rapture occurs at His coming.


Again,

You do understand that the Day of the Lord is the destruction of the wicked including the antichrist who are left on earth after the resurrection and rapture, in which His people are caught up together in the clouds, and are safely with Him in the air?


You understand this, right?




JLB
You do realize the Sixth Seal occurs in Rev. 6, don't you? That means it occurs before the Seven Years of the Antichrist.
 

Jacob62

 
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Which particular verse in Rev 6 says you will be raptured?
Excellent question.

The specific features of The Sixth Seal is shown only in Rev. Ch. 6, and nowhere else in Revelations. Rev. Ch. 7 then has the Great Multitude wearing white robes before the Throne, who came from The Great Tribulation. Daniel's 70th. Week is never anywhere identified as The Great Tribulation, but Jesus does identify in Matt. 24:29-31 The Rapture as just after a Great Tribulation and before the Sixth Seal of Rev. Ch. 6.

Therefore, The Great Tribulation is a time before The 70th. Week.
 
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Excellent question.

The specific features of The Sixth Seal is shown only in Rev. Ch. 6, and nowhere else in Revelations. Rev. Ch. 7 then has the Great Multitude wearing white robes before the Throne, who came from The Great Tribulation. Daniel's 70th. Week is never anywhere identified as The Great Tribulation, but Jesus does identify in Matt. 24:29-31 The Rapture as just after a Great Tribulation and before the Sixth Seal of Rev. Ch. 6.

Therefore, The Great Tribulation is a time before The 70th. Week.
And so now in addition to creating multiple last days, pre-tribbers now have multiple tribulations?
 
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Nope. Try to remember no place in Scripture calls Daniel's 70th. Week the Great Tribulation.

I can get back to you tomorrow on this in case you forget. Okay?
That would be fine. I have watched the pre-trib presentation morph and change as holes are blown right through it. I would like to see how it continues to change. Post-trib remains constant as it stands on its own two feet.
 

Jacob62

 
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That would be fine. I have watched the pre-trib presentation morph and change as holes are blown right through it. I would like to see how it continues to change. Post-trib remains constant as it stands on its own two feet.
Pretrib remains exactly as Scripture gives it. Remember, do your best not to take the Mark of the Beast.
 
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Pretrib remains exactly as Scripture gives it. Remember, do your best not to take the Mark of the Beast.
I have watched it change over the years. Then when presented, pre-tribbers deny they ever taught a particular verse. That is flat out denial.
 
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The pre-trib morphing of the timing of the Rapture in the book of The Revelation began in the 70s. I was a pre-tribber back then and was taught that Rev 1:10 indicated the rapture was at that point. Then, soon thereafter, the reference verse indicating the Rapture was moved to Rev 4:1, 4:2. As these verses were blasted away for their misapplied absurdity, the Rapture was then moved to Rev 6:17. This too fell apart under scrutiny. By this time I had read a red-letter version of the Bible and had secretly abandoned pre-trib. The pre-tribbers were forced to construct multiple last days and days of the Lord. Now pre-tribbers have multiple tribulations and use the fear tactic of "Believe what we say or else." The longer I quit drinking the pre-trib kool-aid, the more ridiculous it appears and the more absurd the lengths pre-tribbers are willing to go to try and maintain something resembling validity.
 

Jacob62

 
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The pre-trib morphing of the timing of the Rapture in the book of The Revelation began in the 70s. I was a pre-tribber back then and was taught that Rev 1:10 indicated the rapture was at that point. Then, soon thereafter, the reference verse indicating the Rapture was moved to Rev 4:1, 4:2. As these verses were blasted away for their misapplied absurdity, the Rapture was then moved to Rev 6:17. This too fell apart under scrutiny. By this time I had read a red-letter version of the Bible and had secretly abandoned pre-trib. The pre-tribbers were forced to construct multiple last days and days of the Lord. Now pre-tribbers have multiple tribulations and use the fear tactic of "Believe what we say or else." The longer I quit drinking the pre-trib kool-aid, the more ridiculous it appears and the more absurd the lengths pre-tribbers are willing to go to try and maintain something resembling validity.
Yes. Your answer makes complete sense when seen from your own perspective.

From Scripture's perspective, the Pretrib makes complete sense.
 

Jacob62

 
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I think we've beaten this horse enough and have to just agree we disagree my brother.
I know for sure the issue is more than beating a horse. It is all about the character and work of God.

Speak for yourself by omitting the "We." If you do not understand this, it will be easy to explain.
 
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