[__ Science __ ] Old Earth vs. Young Earth

[Free]

"Chapter 1​

The Mind Behind the System​

Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted from the earth, will draw all men unto myself" (John 12:31, 32)."

What does this have to do with the discussion?

 

[follower]

The mind of the system promotes many many distracting devices.
God made all things simple.
Thus to follow Jesus, as Jesus says, requires giving up all to follow Jesus.
i.e. no more confusion nor distraction from the mind behind the system.

For many hundreds of years, Old Earth and Young Earth views have been debated back and forth. I have NO expectations of that paradox being solved here, however it can be a stimulating topic. It is also a topic that requires an answer as it usually plays a part in trying to lead a lost person to Christ.

Old Earth and Young Earth represent differing interpretations of the biblical creation account surrounding the science that has come forward in the past 100 years concerning "Dinasour" fossils.

Old Earth sees vast amounts of time spanning billions of years. Various scientific dating methods, and archeology and geographical evidence place the age of the earth around 4.5 billion years and the age of the universe around 14.6 billion years.

However, Young Earth other contends for a timeline of only around Six to Ten thousand years since the universe’s origin based on genealogy records in the Bible. .

The hinge point is how the “days” in Genesis are understood, whether as literal 24-hour days or extended geological periods.

To be clear, the Hebrew word “yom” can refer to DAY or it can refer to an AGE or ERA.

The options to solve the apparent conflict are as follows:
1. the Bible is wrong,
2. the Bible is being interpreted incorrectly, or the
3. scientific data is being interpreted incorrectly.
4. There was a Creation before Genesis 1:1

Neither old earth creationism nor young earth creationism teaches that the Bible is wrong. Generally speaking, both old earth and young earth creationists believe in the inspiration, inerrancy, and authority of God’s Word.

Now if you believe that the Young Earth position is the right one, then you "must" also accept as a fact, that Adam and Eve lived with dinosaurs and that Noah had them on the Ark even though there is NO Biblical record of either one.

What say YOU?

 

[Elijah7777]

Sorry, no.
Follow Jesus, or not.
Follow the flesh, and fail.

Show me the contradiction between Science and the Bible. The flesh has nothing to do with the conversation we are having.

 

[Rodger]

The mind of the system promotes many many distracting devices.
God made all things simple.
Thus to follow Jesus, as Jesus says, requires giving up all to follow Jesus.
i.e. no more confusion nor distraction from the mind behind the system.

"Distracting devices"........
The computer YOU are working on!
The TV YOU watch to find information and entertainment.
The Telephone YOU use to talk to family and friends.
The medicine YOU take to stay alive.

THINK before you post!

 

[Rodger]

"Chapter 1​

The Mind Behind the System​

Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted from the earth, will draw all men unto myself" (John 12:31, 32)."

Science is possible only because there are regularities. And the regularities are there because God is consistent with himself. He has a plan, and he is faithful day by day in carrying it out.

What you fail to realize is that When scientists seek to discover scientific laws, they are actually looking for the word of God that governs the processes they are studying. If they think they understand a specific regularity, they may call it a “law”: Newton’s laws of motion, Newton’s law of gravitation, Kirchhoff’s laws for electric circuits. These laws are human summaries of the actual law — namely, God’s word, his speech, which governs motion and gravity and electric circuits and everything else.

 

[Elijah7777]

I like your spirit, brother. I'll listen to whatever you want to put out there...

I was thinking about this thread where we were talking about what people call the axis of the earth. Then I came up with the most difficult passage in the Bible. Ezekiel 1:14 " their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel"

We are talking about an Axis in the "middle" of the Earth but Ezekel is talking about a wheel within a wheel. Because the "axis" of the earth is effected by what we call gravity. The earth is a wheel withing the wheel of the sun within the wheel of the solar system.

Theistic evolution is something I continue to work on understanding.

Astronomers Examine Ezekiel-like ‘Wheel in a Wheel’ in Binary System GG Tauri-A | Sci.News

Astronomers detected a streamer of gas flowing from an outer disc of planet-forming material toward the inner disc of the double star system GG Tauri-A.

www.sci.news

 

[Elijah7777]

What you fail to realize is that When scientists seek to discover scientific laws, they are actually looking for the word of God that governs the processes they are studying.

Science is a method for discerning truth through precision. In the same way, the justice of God is exact—no less precise than the laws of physics. Jesus fulfilled the entire Law of God, all 613 commandments, not to abolish them but to model perfect obedience (Matthew 5:17). We are called to follow His example.

Hasidic and other conservative Jewish communities still strive to keep all the laws. I believe the 144,000 in Revelation represent those who do likewise. Revelation 14:4 says, “These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins.” This symbolizes spiritual purity and covenantal fidelity. They are true sons of Abraham—Hebrew in both lineage and obedience. Their virginity reflects restraint: they marry as virgins and remain faithful to their wives alone.

This theme is echoed in the film A Stranger Among Us, where a woman tempts a rabbi’s son to cheat. He replies, “You do not understand.” As a rabbi, he must maintain purity before God and uphold every law. Likewise, we are called to priestly purity—not just in spirit, but in example. This is why divorced individuals, though still able to serve God, may not qualify as pastors: they no longer model the fullness of covenantal witness.

Jesus fulfilled the Law as a living parable of obedience, restraint, and justice. We are invited to do the same—not to earn salvation, but to reflect the holiness of the One who saved us.

 

[RandyK]

I was thinking about this thread where we were talking about what people call the axis of the earth. Then I came up with the most difficult passage in the Bible. Ezekiel 1:14 " their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel"

We are talking about an Axis in the "middle" of the Earth but Ezekel is talking about a wheel within a wheel. Because the "axis" of the earth is effected by what we call gravity. The earth is a wheel withing the wheel of the sun within the wheel of the solar system.

Theistic evolution is something I continue to work on understanding.

Astronomers Examine Ezekiel-like ‘Wheel in a Wheel’ in Binary System GG Tauri-A | Sci.News

Astronomers detected a streamer of gas flowing from an outer disc of planet-forming material toward the inner disc of the double star system GG Tauri-A.

www.sci.news

That's quite interesting! I'm not sure what Ezekiel's vision intended to convey, but you're quite right. The universe appears to be wheels within wheels. That's how gravity operates, with a field around any object.

Now, if you'd like to explain to me what the vision Ezekiel saw means, I'd be very grateful? ;)

 

[Elijah7777]

Now, if you'd like to explain to me what the vision Ezekiel saw means, I'd be very grateful? ;)

Romans 1:20, Paul writes:"For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."
Theistic evolution does not get into the metaphores, but Paul tells us about "His Eternal Power and Divine Nature". This is a wheel within a wheel so all revolves around the power of God, but His nature like gravity is on the outside working in. Of course Newton did not understand this. Even though people tried to tell him.
Or we can use this to describe the perfect and the permissive will of God and how they work together to accomplish the plan and purpose of God like a wheel within a wheel.

 

[Elijah7777]

Sometimes, though, it appears to be a little "seedy." ;) To say things like there is no "straight line" through the earth, even theoretically, because the outer crust is irregular seems like a case in point.

There is more to it than that. The axle theory does not work for GPS because there is a 2 2-millisecond difference in time. This is why people ask if gravity is a push or a pull. This explains why we have a wobble and a wiggle.

 

[Barbarian]

Was there people and dinosaurs alive at the same time , lots of evidence points to yes they were .

Of course. We still have them with us today...

 

[KV-44-v1]

Of course. We still have them with us today...

Glad to see you're back!!!! ^_^

The Celeocanth was presumed extinct, too.

There might be some dinoes (real dinoes, not evodinoes aka birds) around, like deep in the forests of Africa or Asia. But they are too rare to be seen by men.

 

[Barbarian]

Glad to see you're back!!!! ^_^

We'll see how that works out. Good to be back.

The Celeocanth was presumed extinct, too.

Lazurus families turn up now and then. No species or genus of coelacanth in the fossil record is alive today. They evolved from freshwater fish to deep seal species. Two of them now known.

(real dinoes, not evodinoes aka birds)

Birds existed before many of the iconic dinosaurs appeared. Birds existed about 70 million years before T rex, for example. T. rex would be the evodino not birds. They both evolved from a common theropod ancestor, but birds were earlier than the big guy.

 

[Elijah7777]

There might be some dinoes

Dinos are reptiles. Turtles and Alligators are still alive today. All of the extinctions kill off 95 %. The rest remain to repopulate the earth.

 

[Elijah7777]

The computer YOU are working on!

AI is a wonderful tool for studying the Bible. In my recent study of the New Jerusalem, I’ve found that AI quickly provides the relevant scripture references—primarily from Ezekiel and Revelation, with a few passages from Isaiah for good measure.

Job 38:4 asks, “Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding.”

To truly engage with this question, we need science. Without it, people often arrive at strange or speculative ideas. Science, at its core, is a method for discerning what is true and what is not. By applying scientific understanding, we gain deeper insight into the Bible and the mysteries it presents. In this way, science doesn’t diminish faith—it enriches it, helping us better appreciate the wisdom of Scripture.

• Geology: Earth’s crust, tectonic plates, and the “foundations” beneath us show a dynamic planet shaped over billions of years.
• Cosmology: The Big Bang and stellar evolution explain how the elements that make up earth were forged in stars.
• Physics & Chemistry: Laws of gravity, thermodynamics, and atomic structure are the “rules” God set in place to sustain creation.

 

[Elijah7777]

birds were earlier

God seperated the water above from thej w

• According to Genesis, fish and birds were created on the same day—Day 5.
• Land animals (including dinosaurs, if you place them in the Genesis framework) appear later, on Day 6.
• Humans are also created on Day 6, as the climax of the creation narrative.

 

[Barbarian]

I'm talking about actual timelines, not the aspects of creation described in Genesis. There were dinosaurs like Herrerasaurus before birds, but maniraptoran dinosaurs (such as birds) predated T. rex.

 

[Barbarian]

Turtles and Alligators are still alive today.

Turtles are much older than dinosaurs. Alligators, like dinosaurs, are archosaurs, of about the same age.

 

[KV-44-v1]

I'm talking about actual timelines, not the aspects of creation described in Genesis. There were dinosaurs like Herrerasaurus before birds, but maniraptoran dinosaurs (such as birds) predated T. rex.

But the footsoldier evolutionists kept insiting to me that birds came from dinoes. So you contradict them. Good to see inconsistency is alive and well in the evo world.

 

[Elijah7777]

kept insiting to me that birds came from dinoes

So the turkey would fill the whole table back then?