C
cj
Guest
In the now locked "Divsion" thread it stated that to say a person or persons lacked understanding is the same as saying that these persons are wrong.
How so? Well, common to the ways of fallen-humanity-focused persons, the human endeavor of word definition (Webster's Dictionary meaning) was presented as back-up proof to this statement.
Wonderful.
But what about God's definition? How about us considering that for a change I countered.
And with good reason,..... see, there is only one Mount Zion; and before Mount Zion became Mount Zion it was called Mount Moriah (indicating a specific mountain in the land of Moriah), the place where God instructed Abraham to offer Isaac as a sacrifice.
The Hebrew word Moriah means "the vision of Jah", or God's view (in Hebrew, the specific meaning of names is very important to our understanding of God and His economy towards men). Also, another mountain needs to be noted and its significance understood,... Mount Horeb (also called Mount Sinai), the place where the law was given to Moses.
So here we have two distinct mountains/places where God took a man, Abraham to Mount Moriah and Moses to Mount Sinai.
And what of these men?
Well, we know that when Abraham is considered it is in relation to the matter of faith and when Moses is considered it is in relation to the law.
Abraham, faith, Mount Moriah (Mount Zion);..... Moses, law, Mount Sinai.
Question,...... since Moses was never introduced to the reality of being taken by God to Mount Moriah (Mount Zion), and thus never had the experience of seeing the view from Mount Moriah (Mount Zion), would he have been "wrong" to have gone through life according to what he had seen, that being the view from Mount Sinai alone?
See, Webster's view of words is not God's view, and thus to introduce it as some sort of "proof" regarding the reality of a man's speaking is at best exposing a limited understanding of what is real. And at worse it exposes a person who holds to the things of men in preference to the things of God.
As believers we need desperately to see this, and, to understand it in a full way.
A believers living and being should be according to God's view of things; and in scripture there is only one declared high-peak of God's view, Mount Moriah (Mount Zion), and thus every believer should pursue/desire/stretch forward for the gaining of this wonderful divine view.
But presenting Webster's definition of words is not indicative of the above. What it is is a demonstration of laziness on the part of the believer.
It is akin to saying "Here, have some dog food to eat."
Saint's, we should not serve oneanother dog food; we should only serve Christ.
And the Lord knows that He (His reality) is not found in Webster's Dictionary, it is found in God's living word.
But let's get back to the matter of "right or wrong", as it is basic to our going on with the Lord.
Again, would Moses have been "wrong" to continue his life according to the only view God had given him, the view from Mount Sinai?
No, of course not, this view was the measure God had portioned out to Moses.
But wait, Moses held to the law, and today we know that the law was unable to bring Moses into the full riches of God.
All his life Moses attempted to hold to the law, yet God knew that there was better to hold to.
Was the life that Moses lived a "wrong" life?
Of course not.
Was God wong for not brining Moses to Mount Moriah as He did with Abraham?
Also, of course not.
Then what gives,.... where's the "wrong" in this situation?
Truth is, there is no "wrong", but there is shortness of the fullness of life.
And thus we come to what jesus said concerning John the Baptist,...
"Truly I say to you, Among those born of women there has not arisen one greater than John the Baptist, yet he who is least in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he."
Greater than John the Baptist,.... even the least of all believers.
How?
All the prophets prior to John prophesied only that Christ was coming, but John testified that Christ had come. The prophets were looking forward to Christ, but John saw Christ. Hence, John was greater than all the prophets. Yet, although John saw the incarnated Christ and introduced Him to people, he did not have the resurrected Christ indwelling him. The kingdom people do. John could say only, "Here is Christ," but the kingdom people can say, "To me, to live is Christ" (Phil. 1:21). Hence, the least in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he. Whether a person is greater or lesser depends on his relationship to Christ. Christ is the deciding factor. The closer one is to Christ, the greater one is.
And why?
John 6:35, "Jesus said to them, I am the bread of life;..."
John 6:48, "I am the bread of life."
John 6:51, "I am the living bread which came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he shall live forever; And the bread which I will give is My flesh, given for the life of the world."
John 8:12, "Again therefore Jesus spoke to them, saying, I am the light of the world; he who follows Me shall by no means walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life."
John 11:25, "Jesus said to her, I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes into Me, even if he should die, shall live;"
John 14:6, " Jesus said to him, I am the way and the reality and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me."
Jesus is Life.
And when God measures things in creation He does so in relation to Jesus, in relation to Life.
Not in relation to "right" and "wrong"; as God knows that only He is righteous.
God view of creation is from the point of Life.
"How much Life does something have in it; and if not Life, then how much death.
Consider it for a moment,..... as you go through the day which contains more reality, asking yourself if the things you did were right or wrong or if they were done in life or in death?
We are all still yet to be perfected, therefore, how can we expect to know what we are yet to know, perfect rightness from wrongness?
Yet, as a bron-again creature who has received life at the moment of conversion, who can forget that first taste of Life?
As we read God's word or listen to His ministry, which of us can not taste life in His words, spoken or written?
Ummmmm,...... yummy,...... John 6:35!
Tell me, as you read the verses above, about Christ as life, did you not enjoy the taste of them?
Did you say,... "Yes, right."..... Or did you simply say "Ummmmm, nice."?
Remember Mount Moriah and Mount Sinai, these two mounts represent the God's law and God's grace.
On Mount Sinai we have lots of "right" and lots of "wrong", but on Mount Moriah all we have is God's provision of a sacrifice for Himself, otherwise called grace.
On which mountain do you want to be found, on the mount of the law or on the mount of grace?
Now don't get me wrong, for there is most certainly a place for Mount Sinai in all our lives, for this represents God's holiness and thus must become our's experientially.
But ours through Christ, and not through our self-effort.
Christ is the entire Reality of all things related to Mount Sinai,.... and this Christ was found on Mount Moriah, as the substitute Lamb provided by God Himself, long before God brought Moses to Mount Sinai.
Saints, if we try to understand and apply "right" and "wrong" without first having come to the full reality of the grace and Life that is found on Mount Moriah, we will fail, and thus only have a being in death.
Understand this,...... there is absolute righteousness in hell.
In the new eternity, when hell is viewed what will be seen is just "RIGHTeousness".
But all in hell will be in death.
See, even death is "right".
Hence, what is a proper view is not "right" and "wrong", the view from Mount Sinai, but the view of Life and death, the view from Mount Moriah.
Was not the ram given by God on Mount Moriah (a type of Jesus) sacrificed, i.e. entered into death?
Yet, does scripture not say that Isaac was a type of man in resurrection?
Death and life, not "right" and "wrong",..... this is the view from Mount Moriah,..... the view of God, the vision of Jah.
And so, what does any of this have to do with the thread title of Oneness?
Until all believers come into God's one view, until we all arrive at Mount Moriah in all our livng and being, we will suffer in division.
God is life, and oneness is found by simply abiding in His life, and not in what's "right" and what's "wrong".
A final note,...... Consider also the Samaritan woman, as she spoke of even a third mountain of worship.
This mountain was that where Jacob built himself a house. It was where for a time Jacob forgot about his promise to God of building a house for God.
Think of it, you promise to build God a house but then build your own house first.
This is the third mountain that a believer can be found on, the mountain of only self.
How far away from Mount Moriah must this third mountain be.
In love,
cj
How so? Well, common to the ways of fallen-humanity-focused persons, the human endeavor of word definition (Webster's Dictionary meaning) was presented as back-up proof to this statement.
Wonderful.
But what about God's definition? How about us considering that for a change I countered.
And with good reason,..... see, there is only one Mount Zion; and before Mount Zion became Mount Zion it was called Mount Moriah (indicating a specific mountain in the land of Moriah), the place where God instructed Abraham to offer Isaac as a sacrifice.
The Hebrew word Moriah means "the vision of Jah", or God's view (in Hebrew, the specific meaning of names is very important to our understanding of God and His economy towards men). Also, another mountain needs to be noted and its significance understood,... Mount Horeb (also called Mount Sinai), the place where the law was given to Moses.
So here we have two distinct mountains/places where God took a man, Abraham to Mount Moriah and Moses to Mount Sinai.
And what of these men?
Well, we know that when Abraham is considered it is in relation to the matter of faith and when Moses is considered it is in relation to the law.
Abraham, faith, Mount Moriah (Mount Zion);..... Moses, law, Mount Sinai.
Question,...... since Moses was never introduced to the reality of being taken by God to Mount Moriah (Mount Zion), and thus never had the experience of seeing the view from Mount Moriah (Mount Zion), would he have been "wrong" to have gone through life according to what he had seen, that being the view from Mount Sinai alone?
See, Webster's view of words is not God's view, and thus to introduce it as some sort of "proof" regarding the reality of a man's speaking is at best exposing a limited understanding of what is real. And at worse it exposes a person who holds to the things of men in preference to the things of God.
As believers we need desperately to see this, and, to understand it in a full way.
A believers living and being should be according to God's view of things; and in scripture there is only one declared high-peak of God's view, Mount Moriah (Mount Zion), and thus every believer should pursue/desire/stretch forward for the gaining of this wonderful divine view.
But presenting Webster's definition of words is not indicative of the above. What it is is a demonstration of laziness on the part of the believer.
It is akin to saying "Here, have some dog food to eat."
Saint's, we should not serve oneanother dog food; we should only serve Christ.
And the Lord knows that He (His reality) is not found in Webster's Dictionary, it is found in God's living word.
But let's get back to the matter of "right or wrong", as it is basic to our going on with the Lord.
Again, would Moses have been "wrong" to continue his life according to the only view God had given him, the view from Mount Sinai?
No, of course not, this view was the measure God had portioned out to Moses.
But wait, Moses held to the law, and today we know that the law was unable to bring Moses into the full riches of God.
All his life Moses attempted to hold to the law, yet God knew that there was better to hold to.
Was the life that Moses lived a "wrong" life?
Of course not.
Was God wong for not brining Moses to Mount Moriah as He did with Abraham?
Also, of course not.
Then what gives,.... where's the "wrong" in this situation?
Truth is, there is no "wrong", but there is shortness of the fullness of life.
And thus we come to what jesus said concerning John the Baptist,...
"Truly I say to you, Among those born of women there has not arisen one greater than John the Baptist, yet he who is least in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he."
Greater than John the Baptist,.... even the least of all believers.
How?
All the prophets prior to John prophesied only that Christ was coming, but John testified that Christ had come. The prophets were looking forward to Christ, but John saw Christ. Hence, John was greater than all the prophets. Yet, although John saw the incarnated Christ and introduced Him to people, he did not have the resurrected Christ indwelling him. The kingdom people do. John could say only, "Here is Christ," but the kingdom people can say, "To me, to live is Christ" (Phil. 1:21). Hence, the least in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he. Whether a person is greater or lesser depends on his relationship to Christ. Christ is the deciding factor. The closer one is to Christ, the greater one is.
And why?
John 6:35, "Jesus said to them, I am the bread of life;..."
John 6:48, "I am the bread of life."
John 6:51, "I am the living bread which came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he shall live forever; And the bread which I will give is My flesh, given for the life of the world."
John 8:12, "Again therefore Jesus spoke to them, saying, I am the light of the world; he who follows Me shall by no means walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life."
John 11:25, "Jesus said to her, I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes into Me, even if he should die, shall live;"
John 14:6, " Jesus said to him, I am the way and the reality and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me."
Jesus is Life.
And when God measures things in creation He does so in relation to Jesus, in relation to Life.
Not in relation to "right" and "wrong"; as God knows that only He is righteous.
God view of creation is from the point of Life.
"How much Life does something have in it; and if not Life, then how much death.
Consider it for a moment,..... as you go through the day which contains more reality, asking yourself if the things you did were right or wrong or if they were done in life or in death?
We are all still yet to be perfected, therefore, how can we expect to know what we are yet to know, perfect rightness from wrongness?
Yet, as a bron-again creature who has received life at the moment of conversion, who can forget that first taste of Life?
As we read God's word or listen to His ministry, which of us can not taste life in His words, spoken or written?
Ummmmm,...... yummy,...... John 6:35!
Tell me, as you read the verses above, about Christ as life, did you not enjoy the taste of them?
Did you say,... "Yes, right."..... Or did you simply say "Ummmmm, nice."?
Remember Mount Moriah and Mount Sinai, these two mounts represent the God's law and God's grace.
On Mount Sinai we have lots of "right" and lots of "wrong", but on Mount Moriah all we have is God's provision of a sacrifice for Himself, otherwise called grace.
On which mountain do you want to be found, on the mount of the law or on the mount of grace?
Now don't get me wrong, for there is most certainly a place for Mount Sinai in all our lives, for this represents God's holiness and thus must become our's experientially.
But ours through Christ, and not through our self-effort.
Christ is the entire Reality of all things related to Mount Sinai,.... and this Christ was found on Mount Moriah, as the substitute Lamb provided by God Himself, long before God brought Moses to Mount Sinai.
Saints, if we try to understand and apply "right" and "wrong" without first having come to the full reality of the grace and Life that is found on Mount Moriah, we will fail, and thus only have a being in death.
Understand this,...... there is absolute righteousness in hell.
In the new eternity, when hell is viewed what will be seen is just "RIGHTeousness".
But all in hell will be in death.
See, even death is "right".
Hence, what is a proper view is not "right" and "wrong", the view from Mount Sinai, but the view of Life and death, the view from Mount Moriah.
Was not the ram given by God on Mount Moriah (a type of Jesus) sacrificed, i.e. entered into death?
Yet, does scripture not say that Isaac was a type of man in resurrection?
Death and life, not "right" and "wrong",..... this is the view from Mount Moriah,..... the view of God, the vision of Jah.
And so, what does any of this have to do with the thread title of Oneness?
Until all believers come into God's one view, until we all arrive at Mount Moriah in all our livng and being, we will suffer in division.
God is life, and oneness is found by simply abiding in His life, and not in what's "right" and what's "wrong".
A final note,...... Consider also the Samaritan woman, as she spoke of even a third mountain of worship.
This mountain was that where Jacob built himself a house. It was where for a time Jacob forgot about his promise to God of building a house for God.
Think of it, you promise to build God a house but then build your own house first.
This is the third mountain that a believer can be found on, the mountain of only self.
How far away from Mount Moriah must this third mountain be.
In love,
cj
