Our conservative daughter is looking at Islam as MORE faithful and is being tempted

[ThomasOwlCat]

Our 17 year old daughter has been raised as modest, committeed to abstinance, in the church and a participant in many Christian youth programs. All along, she seems to have observed the seemingly hypocratic behavior of Christians among her peers (promiscuity), youth groups (immodest dress and bullying) and family (business over family, infrequent church, imperfect behaviors in mine and my wife's life). Meanwhile, she has befriended muslim girls who are steadfastly adherent to faith (headscarf, 5X prayers/day, eating halal...etc.

While we have a great relationship, her age and strive for independence are at the point where the scales of effective influence as a father are in direct competition with these friends. She states that she's "just asking questions" and I hope that is the case. These questions are: "How can we claim monotheism if we're praying to Jesus" (One of the goto themes in Islamic recruitment from what I understand). "If all these people in my life are faithful Christians, why don't I see more apparent adherence? (juxaposed to her friend that follow all of the traditions of their faith.)

A heavy hand will push her away and diminish my credibility (i.e. cutting her off from friends). A light hand could clearly be disasterous (doing nothing). Bottom line, I am looking for some help on how to proceed. She is eyes-wide-open about worldly things, and is unfortunately attributing most of it to our "Chirstian" society.

NOTE: I am looking for a strategy, not one conversation, a wise quote or singular piece of scripture. I understand that this is a sensative situation and needs a long-tail solution.

 

[Niblo]

Greetings.

Make no mistake, hypocritical behaviour is found among us Muslims every bit as much as among Christians!

You are fortunate to enjoy a ‘great relationship’ with your daughter; in which case, there will be a deal of trust between you.

Yes, she will have questions: ‘How can Christians claim to be monotheistic when they pray to Yeshua (ʿalayhi as-salām)?

The answer is simple enough:

They pray to Yeshua because – in all good conscience – they believe him to be both ‘Lord and God’. In Islam, actions are judged according to the intention behind them. A Christian’s desire is to offer praise and thanks.

And there is nothing wrong with that.

Christianity – as you know – is very much a monotheistic Faith.

The truth of this statement is – I believe – best seen in the context of marriage:

According to Islamic law, a Muslim male may not marry a polytheist. However, he is permitted to marry a Christian woman. Moreover, his wife enjoys an absolute – indissoluble – right not only to retain her Faith, but to practise it. She has no obligation to convert; and may not be coerced into doing so.

The Beloved refers to Christians as ‘Ahl al-kitab’ (the ‘People of the Book’ – an honorific title). This is what He has to say about them:

‘Those who believe and do good deeds are the best of creation. Their reward with their Lord is everlasting Gardens graced with flowing streams, where they will stay forever. God is well pleased with them and they with Him. All this is for those who stand in awe of their Lord.’ (Al-Bayyina 7 -8; my emphasis).

Take especial note of these verses. It has been my privilege to know – and to love – many Christians who were shining examples of Christian love and good practice (see my favourite example below).

These verses assure me that they shall have their reward in Heaven. These verses assure me that every Christian who carries the Beloved in their hearts, and who strives to do good, will have their reward. This is a solemn promise, and the Beloved does not renege on His promises.

Continued:

 

[Niblo]

Permit me to tell you a little of my paternal grandfather:

He was taken out of school at the age of ten, and set to work in the coal-mines (unlawful, but who cared?).

Using the local Miners’ Institute – centres of learning at that time (and being a book-worm) – he learned (among many other things) both Hebrew and Greek. His second great passion – Faith and Family together being his first – was music. Able to play both violin and piano – and to transpose written music into tonic-solfa for those who could not read music – he was appointed Musical Director of the Glanselsig Amateur Operatic Society. His favourite work was Handel’s Messiah. I can see him now, dressed in his black evening suit, white shirt, black dickie-bow, conducting a full chorus and orchestra, with his white baton; with every word, every note engraved in his heart. I have his baton, but none of his talent!

In the 1920’s a number of Italian families moved into Glamorgan and set up shops and cafes. One of these families (the Bassini’s) settled in Tynewydd (my home town).

When Italy declared war, and joined with Germany, the UK government issued an internment order against those it deemed to be ‘enemy civilians’. This included the Bassini’s. The husband (I knew him as Jack) was taken away, but his wife and children were allowed to remain in their home (they had a café and a fish and chip shop, located side-by-side).

One day, my grandfather was returning from work, only to discover a mob hurling abuse (and stones) at the Bassini’s and their home; at people they had once called friends. My grandfather told the mob to stop, and they did. Many years later the family’s eldest daughter (Maria) was accepted as a Carmelite nun; and my grandfather and grandmother were invited to attend the ceremony. A great honour.

My grandfather was an Elder at Blaencwm Chapel. The Elders employed the Minister.

When I was a teenager, one Minister visited my grandfather’s house. He was treated like royalty. My grandfather called him ‘Sir’. Later, I asked my grandfather why he had called this man ‘Sir’ after all, he was the Minister’s boss!

My grandfather smiled, and said: ‘I’m just an Elder. The Minister speaks the Word!’

When my grandfather died, several hundred men – of all ages – attended his funeral (women did not do so in those days). They filled the cemetery chapel, and many were weeping openly.

My grandfather was able to calm a howling mob – and move the hearts of many – not because of any legal authority (he had none), but because of his character; because of the person he was. He lived his Faith as it was meant to be lived. A Christian would say that he reflected the love of Jesus; and that it was this that made him a shining beacon to others. I would say that he reflected the love of God. He led by example rather than by argument.

He is, by far, the finest man I ever knew.

Perhaps you should encourage your daughter to study the lives of other Christians who were exemplars for their Faith.

Perhaps you should avoid attacking Islam - and its Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) - a very great temptation among non-Muslims! An attack here may well be seen as an attack on her friends; and that might damage the trust you enjoy with her.

I hope this helps. Please come back if you wish to.

Bear in mind that there is no obligation - in Islamic Law - for a Christian to convert to Islam.

Peace.

 

[Who Me]

These questions are: "How can we claim monotheism if we're praying to Jesus" (One of the goto themes in Islamic recruitment from what I understand). "If all these people in my life are faithful Christians, why don't I see more apparent adherence? (juxaposed to her friend that follow all of the traditions of their faith.)

A question that you need to ask of both your minister and youth leader.
If the diety of Jesus has not been clearly taught, maybe you should be challenging there competency.

Re your daugther, may I suggest talking her through what the bible says about Jesus.
He claimed to forgive sins, to have seen Abraham, to be equal with God and in evey case the Jews reacted.

If she has caught you out on unchristian behaviour, change.

You could ask her this:-
Argument 1: The Islamic Dilemma

First, I would use the following syllogism to show that the Koran is altogether untrustworthy because it both affirms and contradicts the Gospels.

1. The Koran affirms the divine inspiration, authority, and preservation of the Gospels (3:3-4; 5:47; 5:68; 6:115; 18:27)

2. The Koran contradicts the Gospels on major historical and theological issues (5:116; 4:157; 5:72)

3. Therefore, the Koran cannot be trusted

Explained another way, since the Koran affirms the divine inspiration, ongoing authority, and perfect preservation of the Gospels, and yet it also contradicts the Gospels on major teachings, then

• If the Gospels are NOT reliable, then the Koran is false because the Koran

teaches that the Gospels are reliable.

• If the Gospels ARE reliable, the Koran is still false because the Koran teaches

contradictory, mutually-exclusive facts about key issues.

• Either way, the Koran is false and cannot be trusted.

Some may respond that the verses which affirm the Gospels may have been abrogated, but there are no later verses in the Koran which claim corruption of the Gospels. There are Koran verses claiming that the Gospels were misused and misinterpreted, but there are none which state that the Gospels were permanently corrupted or lost to history. Further, if the Gospels were reliable at any time during the life of Muhammad, as Koran clearly states they were (5:47; 5:68), then they are reliable today because our modern Bibles are translated from manuscripts which pre-date Muhammad and the Koran.
from https://laurazpowell.org/blog/can-we-trust-the-koranic-view-of-jesus-a-debate

 

[Who Me]

another slightly easier to understand post about how the quarn maintains the accuracy of the gospels and in so doing contradicts its self.

The Islamic Dilemma: A Game-Changer for Conversations with Muslims — An Affair with Reason

The Muslim Claim “Hi, my name is Farjat* and I am from Libya. I am a Muslim and our holy Qur’an has the words of God which have never been changed. Your Bible has been changed, and that is why God had to reveal the holy Qur’an. It’s nice to meet you.” These were the first words of introduction fr

laurazpowell.org

 

[ThomasOwlCat]

Permit me to tell you a little of my paternal grandfather:

He was taken out of school at the age of ten, and set to work in the coal-mines (unlawful, but who cared?).

Using the local Miners’ Institute – centres of learning at that time (and being a book-worm) – he learned (among many other things) both Hebrew and Greek. His second great passion – Faith and Family together being his first – was music. Able to play both violin and piano – and to transpose written music into tonic-solfa for those who could not read music – he was appointed Musical Director of the Glanselsig Amateur Operatic Society. His favourite work was Handel’s Messiah. I can see him now, dressed in his black evening suit, white shirt, black dickie-bow, conducting a full chorus and orchestra, with his white baton; with every word, every note engraved in his heart. I have his baton, but none of his talent!

In the 1920’s a number of Italian families moved into Glamorgan and set up shops and cafes. One of these families (the Bassini’s) settled in Tynewydd (my home town).

When Italy declared war, and joined with Germany, the UK government issued an internment order against those it deemed to be ‘enemy civilians’. This included the Bassini’s. The husband (I knew him as Jack) was taken away, but his wife and children were allowed to remain in their home (they had a café and a fish and chip shop, located side-by-side).

One day, my grandfather was returning from work, only to discover a mob hurling abuse (and stones) at the Bassini’s and their home; at people they had once called friends. My grandfather told the mob to stop, and they did. Many years later the family’s eldest daughter (Maria) was accepted as a Carmelite nun; and my grandfather and grandmother were invited to attend the ceremony. A great honour.

My grandfather was an Elder at Blaencwm Chapel. The Elders employed the Minister.

When I was a teenager, one Minister visited my grandfather’s house. He was treated like royalty. My grandfather called him ‘Sir’. Later, I asked my grandfather why he had called this man ‘Sir’ after all, he was the Minister’s boss!

My grandfather smiled, and said: ‘I’m just an Elder. The Minister speaks the Word!’

When my grandfather died, several hundred men – of all ages – attended his funeral (women did not do so in those days). They filled the cemetery chapel, and many were weeping openly.

My grandfather was able to calm a howling mob – and move the hearts of many – not because of any legal authority (he had none), but because of his character; because of the person he was. He lived his Faith as it was meant to be lived. A Christian would say that he reflected the love of Jesus; and that it was this that made him a shining beacon to others. I would say that he reflected the love of God. He led by example rather than by argument.

He is, by far, the finest man I ever knew.

Perhaps you should encourage your daughter to study the lives of other Christians who were exemplars for their Faith.

Perhaps you should avoid attacking Islam - and its Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) - a very great temptation among non-Muslims! An attack here may well be seen as an attack on her friends; and that might damage the trust you enjoy with her.

I hope this helps. Please come back if you wish to.

Bear in mind that there is no obligation - in Islamic Law - for a Christian to convert to Islam.

Peace.

Niblo,
Much food for thought to be sure. I very much appreciate you sharing your thoughts. You've given us much to drill down on to be sure. Peace to you.

 

[Becky1]

Our 17 year old daughter has been raised as modest, committeed to abstinance, in the church and a participant in many Christian youth programs. All along, she seems to have observed the seemingly hypocratic behavior of Christians among her peers (promiscuity), youth groups (immodest dress and bullying) and family (business over family, infrequent church, imperfect behaviors in mine and my wife's life). Meanwhile, she has befriended muslim girls who are steadfastly adherent to faith (headscarf, 5X prayers/day, eating halal...etc.

While we have a great relationship, her age and strive for independence are at the point where the scales of effective influence as a father are in direct competition with these friends. She states that she's "just asking questions" and I hope that is the case. These questions are: "How can we claim monotheism if we're praying to Jesus" (One of the goto themes in Islamic recruitment from what I understand). "If all these people in my life are faithful Christians, why don't I see more apparent adherence? (juxaposed to her friend that follow all of the traditions of their faith.)

A heavy hand will push her away and diminish my credibility (i.e. cutting her off from friends). A light hand could clearly be disasterous (doing nothing). Bottom line, I am looking for some help on how to proceed. She is eyes-wide-open about worldly things, and is unfortunately attributing most of it to our "Chirstian" society.

NOTE: I am looking for a strategy, not one conversation, a wise quote or singular piece of scripture. I understand that this is a sensative situation and needs a long-tail solution.

When the camel gets his head in the tent he is in. Accepting antichrist folks as friends is toying with grave sin. You dont want one liners , but that is how i talk... What she is playing with is heavy sin. An example ; if she was playing around with prosecution, befriending a pimp, or a catch female would you be worried about your relationship or her safety and Salvation?

 

[Niblo]

Niblo,
Much food for thought to be sure. I very much appreciate you sharing your thoughts. You've given us much to drill down on to be sure. Peace to you.

Hi Thomas.

Thank you for your kind words. Glad to be of help...happy drilling!

May the Beloved guide your daughter along whatever way He has chosen for her; and may each of your family enjoy, for all their days, His abiding love and companionship.

Peace be upon you.

 

[for_his_glory]

Permit me to tell you a little of my paternal grandfather:

He was taken out of school at the age of ten, and set to work in the coal-mines (unlawful, but who cared?).

Using the local Miners’ Institute – centres of learning at that time (and being a book-worm) – he learned (among many other things) both Hebrew and Greek. His second great passion – Faith and Family together being his first – was music. Able to play both violin and piano – and to transpose written music into tonic-solfa for those who could not read music – he was appointed Musical Director of the Glanselsig Amateur Operatic Society. His favourite work was Handel’s Messiah. I can see him now, dressed in his black evening suit, white shirt, black dickie-bow, conducting a full chorus and orchestra, with his white baton; with every word, every note engraved in his heart. I have his baton, but none of his talent!

In the 1920’s a number of Italian families moved into Glamorgan and set up shops and cafes. One of these families (the Bassini’s) settled in Tynewydd (my home town).

When Italy declared war, and joined with Germany, the UK government issued an internment order against those it deemed to be ‘enemy civilians’. This included the Bassini’s. The husband (I knew him as Jack) was taken away, but his wife and children were allowed to remain in their home (they had a café and a fish and chip shop, located side-by-side).

One day, my grandfather was returning from work, only to discover a mob hurling abuse (and stones) at the Bassini’s and their home; at people they had once called friends. My grandfather told the mob to stop, and they did. Many years later the family’s eldest daughter (Maria) was accepted as a Carmelite nun; and my grandfather and grandmother were invited to attend the ceremony. A great honour.

My grandfather was an Elder at Blaencwm Chapel. The Elders employed the Minister.

When I was a teenager, one Minister visited my grandfather’s house. He was treated like royalty. My grandfather called him ‘Sir’. Later, I asked my grandfather why he had called this man ‘Sir’ after all, he was the Minister’s boss!

My grandfather smiled, and said: ‘I’m just an Elder. The Minister speaks the Word!’

When my grandfather died, several hundred men – of all ages – attended his funeral (women did not do so in those days). They filled the cemetery chapel, and many were weeping openly.

My grandfather was able to calm a howling mob – and move the hearts of many – not because of any legal authority (he had none), but because of his character; because of the person he was. He lived his Faith as it was meant to be lived. A Christian would say that he reflected the love of Jesus; and that it was this that made him a shining beacon to others. I would say that he reflected the love of God. He led by example rather than by argument.

He is, by far, the finest man I ever knew.

Perhaps you should encourage your daughter to study the lives of other Christians who were exemplars for their Faith.

Perhaps you should avoid attacking Islam - and its Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) - a very great temptation among non-Muslims! An attack here may well be seen as an attack on her friends; and that might damage the trust you enjoy with her.

I hope this helps. Please come back if you wish to.

Bear in mind that there is no obligation - in Islamic Law - for a Christian to convert to Islam.

Peace.

This is the greatest advice that I could not add much to this. ThomasOwlCat I would think since it seems your daughter has been grounded in the word most of her young life that it will remain in her even though at that age many try to seek out different things for themself. All you can really do is love her and be that Christian example in her life and pray she makes the right decisions in her life.

 

[JLB]

Our 17 year old daughter has been raised as modest, committeed to abstinance, in the church and a participant in many Christian youth programs. All along, she seems to have observed the seemingly hypocratic behavior of Christians among her peers (promiscuity), youth groups (immodest dress and bullying) and family (business over family, infrequent church, imperfect behaviors in mine and my wife's life). Meanwhile, she has befriended muslim girls who are steadfastly adherent to faith (headscarf, 5X prayers/day, eating halal...etc.

While we have a great relationship, her age and strive for independence are at the point where the scales of effective influence as a father are in direct competition with these friends. She states that she's "just asking questions" and I hope that is the case. These questions are: "How can we claim monotheism if we're praying to Jesus" (One of the goto themes in Islamic recruitment from what I understand). "If all these people in my life are faithful Christians, why don't I see more apparent adherence? (juxaposed to her friend that follow all of the traditions of their faith.)

A heavy hand will push her away and diminish my credibility (i.e. cutting her off from friends). A light hand could clearly be disasterous (doing nothing). Bottom line, I am looking for some help on how to proceed. She is eyes-wide-open about worldly things, and is unfortunately attributing most of it to our "Chirstian" society.

NOTE: I am looking for a strategy, not one conversation, a wise quote or singular piece of scripture. I understand that this is a sensative situation and needs a long-tail solution.

She needs to understand that Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation, regardless of how others act or behave.


Prayer and fasting for her is what is needed.



JLB

 

[D-D-W]

My question about your daughter is this: What is she "conservative" about - outward appearances and behavior, or her faith in Christ?

A major tenet of Islam (and this is inscribed over the door to the Dome of the Rock shrine on the Temple mount in Jerusalem) is this: "God has no son."

In 1 John, we read that the spirit of antichrist denies the Father and the Son. 1 John 2:22
So the spirit of "Allah" worshiped in Islam is actually the demon of antichrist. And this is what our Lord said about those who deny the Son:

Mark 8:38
For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.

Your daughter needs to be aware of that before making a decision to convert.

 

[Prycejosh1987]

The biggest problem with Christians is hypocrisy within our sects. The worst thing to do is say i will leave Christianity because of people. Jesus always should be the focus of our relationship with God in Jesus Christ, not Christians. Because Christians are flawed like everyone else, its just we have a greater motivation and commandment to do good.