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Peter or Paul , is it the same Message ???
- Thread starter dan p
- Start date
seekandlisten
Member
dan p said:
What is this discussion based on? Acts 21 had to do with Paul offending the Jews didn't it. So, in following with his own teaching, he went through with their 'rituals' so as not to become a 'stumbling block'. Paul also said that he would become 'all things' so that by 'any means necessary one might be saved'. We also know that what 'goes into our mouths' does not defile us it's what comes out. You also have 1 Corinthians 10:23-33 where everything is permissable but not beneficial. The disagreements between Peter and Paul were more towards 'rituals' and other such useless things. You could look at when circumcision was talked about where it said if it was beneficial 'God' would have created us that way right? The arguments of differing beliefs that don't matter has been going on since the start and shows no signs of letting up now. Just my thoughts, correct me if I missed the point.
dan p said:
Though Paul had some ministry with the Jews, the 12 were not given to work with the Gentiles as was Paul. The 'same message', regarding faith...the message was consistent between both Jew and Gentile. As regarding forms of law keeping, I don't see that Paul compelled the Gentiles to keep the law/s that were given to the Jews, and in that sense the message is different from that of the 12.
- 1 Corinthians 9:19-22
19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all,
that I might gain the more.
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that
are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God,
but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things
to all men, that I might by all means save some. KJV
handy
Member
The only difference that I see between Paul's message and the 12 apostle's is this:
Acts 15:5But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses."
6The apostles and the elders came together to look into this matter.
7After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, "Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe.
8"And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;
9and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
10"Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?
11"But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are."
They then went on to tell the gentiles:
28"For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:
29that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell."
Paul, however told the Corinthians:
1 Corinthians 8:4Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one.
5For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords,
6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
7However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
8But food will not commend us to God; we are neither the worse if we do not eat, nor the better if we do eat.
9But take care that this liberty of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak.
Acts 15:5But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses."
6The apostles and the elders came together to look into this matter.
7After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, "Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe.
8"And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;
9and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
10"Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?
11"But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are."
They then went on to tell the gentiles:
28"For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:
29that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell."
Paul, however told the Corinthians:
1 Corinthians 8:4Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one.
5For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords,
6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
7However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
8But food will not commend us to God; we are neither the worse if we do not eat, nor the better if we do eat.
9But take care that this liberty of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak.
seekandlisten said:
Hi seekandlisten , I believe that you miss what Acts 21:21 is saying .
#1 , We see that the Context is Jewish in verse 18 !!
#2 , Paul was just offending , I do not blieve that for a minute , as they were always trying to kill him .
#3 , And they are INFORMED of thee , that thou TEACHEST all the Jews which are among the GENTILES to FORSAKE Moses , saying that they ought NOT to Circumcise children , neither to WALK after the Customs .
1) Informed is KATECHEO is a Gk compound word , KATA which means DOWN and ECHEO which means " a sound " . It means to sound down into the ears , to indoctrinate , to inform , instruct , and to teach .
2) Teachest is DIDASKO and means to teach and to teach to learn .
2) Teaching them to Forsake Moses , which is a Death sentence !!!
3) Not to Circumcise children , a death sentence !!!
4) And not to walk after their Jewish customs , you have to be Kidding !!!!!
seekandlisten
Member
dan p said:
Acts 21:21
21They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs.
I still don't get what you are getting at? Do you have some point that is 'enlightening'? All I see is arguing over circumcision and the Law of Moses. As far as circumcision, useless as it is our hearts that matter. The Law of Moses, summed up by Jesus in Matthew 22:37-40:
37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Can you break any of the 10 commandments following these 2, I think not.