Portrait of the Modern, Self-righteous Pharisee

[AVBunyan]

Self-righteous Pharisees are difficult to spot these days due several reasons:
1. They have learned to hide behind the skirts of religion so they walk as tares among the wheat.
2. They go undetected due to the gross ignorance of the scriptures of today’s modern “Christianityâ€Â.

So, after dealing with these self-righteous Pharisees for over 22 years or so I thought I might give you some tips on how to spot one.

1. They have no final authority – they use tradition, whatever bible suits their fancy, their church and their leaders but never a final authority. They have rejected the authority of the King James Bible – the book God has been using to bring revival and to save sinners for the past 350 years or so.

2. Their favorite parts of the “bible†(even though it is not their final authority) are those parts that have nothing to do with the body of Christ and grace as it has been revealed to us by Paul. You will find them hanging around:
a. The OT – written doctrinally to and for Israel under the law before Calvary was even revealed. These books deal with an earthly kingdom.
b. The Gospels – written doctrinally to and for Israel under the law before the purpose of Calvary was even revealed. These books deal with an earthly kingdom meant for the nation of Israel. The disciple that walked with Christ for over 3 years did not even understand the death, burial, and resurrection so how can we expect modern-day self-righteous Pharisees to understand it.
c. Acts – a transitional book that shows God’s dealings with Israel and then transitioning to Paul and the opening up of the gospel to the Gentiles
d. Hebrews through Revelation - written doctrinally to and for Israel to be understood by Israel during the great tribulation. These books deal with an earthly kingdom. And when you mention this to them their comeback is usually, “You just don’t believe all the Bible like we do!â€Â

Summary – they lump all the scriptures together and make “bible goulash†and apply everything to everybody regardless of context. They make the poorest of bible students due to their blindness.

3. The books they are least familiar with are Paul’s – especially from Ephesians thru Philemon. If you don’t believe this then monitor their posts on different forums and just see how much they know about Paul. All they use Paul for is “out-of-context†verses which are practical exhortations which have nothing to do with true justification before God.

4. They are void of understand of the “tion†words of Paul: justification, sanctification, adoption, glorification, redemption, and regeneration, etc. If you doubt this then ask them to define the words as they are found in Paul.

5. They are void of understanding of the body of Christ and it’s uniqueness in scriptures.
If you doubt this then ask them – don’t take my word for it.

6. The confuse the outworking of salvation passages in the scriptures and make these passages mean justification.
Example. – If Paul were to say, “Study to shew thyselves approved…†they would twist that to mean, “If you don’t study then you won’t be saved.†They seem to apply every command to if you don’t do the command then you are not enduring to the end.

7. They seek to talk saints out of their salvation by seeking to get them to ignore Paul’s writings and turn their attention on themselves for their justification.

8. They have not a clue of what doctrinally took place at Calvary.
If you doubt this then ask them – don’t take my word for it.

9. They love to speak of obedience, following Christ, repentance, enduring to the end, suffering, etc. because they so much want to have a part in their salvation. All of those words are used to apply to their efforts. And when you bring the above up to them their comeback is, “You don’t believe in doing good works!â€Â

10.They couldn’t tell you the difference between standing vs. state or position vs. practical if their lives depended upon it. If you doubt this then ask them – don’t take my word for it.

11. They can’t tell you God’s future purposes for Israel or for the body of Christ. If you doubt this then ask them – don’t take my word for it.

12. They like to use high-sounding words with lots of “isms†on the end and accuse you of bein an “ism†to hide the fact that they don’t know the “tion†words of Paul.

13. They have no assurance of their salvation for at any moment they just might:
a. sin unto death
b. reject Christ
c. quite believing
d. deny Christ
e. forget to ask forgiveness
f. fail to follow their church’s teachings
And many, many more!

Sumary of #13 – their salvation is dependent upon them not doing the above things listed and more. And when you bring the above up to them their comeback is, “You don’t believe in doing good works!â€Â

And finally – when you point out things like the above then they will accuse you of having no love.

I chose 13 points for the number 13 in the scriptures represents rebellion.

Have you seen one lately?

Keep your eyes open – watch!!!!

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Self-righteous Pharisees are difficult to spot these days due several reasons:
1. They have learned to hide behind the skirts of religion so they walk as tares among the wheat.
2. They go undetected due to the gross ignorance of the scriptures of today’s modern “Christianityâ€Â.
We can be spotted by our use of red font.

So, after dealing with these self-righteous Pharisees for over 22 years or so I thought I might give you some tips on how to spot one.
Just look for the guys with a foot planted in your...

1. They have no final authority – they use tradition, <against tradition whatever bible suits their fancy, their church and their leaders but never a final authority. They have rejected the authority of the King James Bible – the book God has been using to bring revival and to save sinners for the past 350 years or so. <stumping FOR tradition :

2. Their favorite parts of the “bible†(even though it is not their final authority) are those parts that have nothing to do with the body of Christ and grace as it has been revealed to us by Paul.
At long last, my turn to use this (appropriately, even)
All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

You will find them hanging around:
a. The OT – written doctrinally to and for Israel under the law before Calvary was even revealed. These books deal with an earthly kingdom.
Dismissing the OT is called 'Marcionism,' a variant of gnosticism. Declared heretical in the second century, still held to be so by Catholics, Orthodox, AND Evangelicals.

b. The Gospels – written doctrinally to and for Israel under the law before the purpose of Calvary was even revealed. These books deal with an earthly kingdom meant for the nation of Israel. The disciple that walked with Christ for over 3 years did not even understand the death, burial, and resurrection so how can we expect modern-day self-righteous Pharisees to understand it.
The Pharisees embrace Jesus' teaching. On what planet?
c. Acts – a transitional book that shows God’s dealings with Israel and then transitioning to Paul and the opening up of the gospel to the Gentiles
This is a book of history, the Christian '1 and 2 Chronicles.
d. Hebrews through Revelation - written doctrinally to and for Israel to be understood by Israel during the great tribulation. These books deal with an earthly kingdom. And when you mention this to them their comeback is usually, “You just don’t believe all the Bible like we do!â€Â
Hebrews was written to the Hebrews. Of course, so were the Ten words, otherwise known as the ten commandments. I'm not about to dismiss those, either.

Summary – they lump all the scriptures together and make “bible goulash†and apply everything to everybody regardless of context. They make the poorest of bible students due to their blindness.
Or, as it truly is, we don't tear out chunks of scripture so as to prop up doctrines of demons. Rather,we attempt to harmonize the tensions within scripture. This is wisdom. Even though Protestants and Catholics and Orthodox harmonize the scriptures in soemwhat different ways, we all generally aproach scripture with the idea of letting it instruct us, not vice versa.
3. The books they are least familiar with are Paul’s – especially from Ephesians thru Philemon. If you don’t believe this then monitor their posts on different forums and just see how much they know about Paul. All they use Paul for is “out-of-context†verses which are practical exhortations which have nothing to do with true justification before God.
I have entire Pauline letters committed to memory. Paul's soaring doxologies have informed my faith and deepened my walk. And, as an Apostle of the Church, I follow him as he follows Christ.
Notice who is foremost?
4. They are void of understand of the “tion†words of Paul: justification, sanctification, adoption, glorification, redemption, and regeneration, etc. If you doubt this then ask them to define the words as they are found in Paul.
Here's a small hint for you to chew, and hopefully not choke on: Paul did not write in English.

5. They are void of understanding of the body of Christ and it’s uniqueness in scriptures.
If you doubt this then ask them – don’t take my word for it.
You certainly creat a unique Body of Christ, I'll grant you that

6. The confuse the outworking of salvation passages in the scriptures and make these passages mean justification.
Example. – If Paul were to say, “Study to shew thyselves approved…†they would twist that to mean, “If you don’t study then you won’t be saved.†They seem to apply every command to if you don’t do the command then you are not enduring to the end.
Actually, this scripture is written specifically to Timothy, and commands him to show himself worthy of listening to by working hard at what he does- which in Timothy's case, was as an episkopate/elder. The proof of his work would be good doctrine.
Paul also warns Timothy to avoid threads like this one: profane and vain babblings."
Perhaps I should take Paul's warning to Timothy to heart...
7. They seek to talk saints out of their salvation by seeking to get them to ignore Paul’s writings and turn their attention on themselves for their justification.
Who keeps starting threads with his name on them pointing to the glory of his understanding and the foolishness of others? Ogh yes, that would be you. "Attention to themselves."
8. They have not a clue of what doctrinally took place at Calvary.
If you doubt this then ask them – don’t take my word for it.
I don't imagine very many will take your word for it- even though you haven't offered your word, as in a positive statement as to what DID happen at the cross. It's just easier to claim that everyone else is worng than to make your case, eh?
9. They love to speak of obedience, following Christ, repentance, enduring to the end, suffering, etc. because they so much want to have a part in their salvation. All of those words are used to apply to their efforts. And when you bring the above up to them their comeback is, “You don’t believe in doing good works!â€Â
And you, for your part, ignore clear scripture COMMANDING the enduring to the end. As such, you teach slackness and slumber.
10.They couldn’t tell you the difference between standing vs. state or position vs. practical if their lives depended upon it. If you doubt this then ask them – don’t take my word for it.
When I see "stand" in scripture, it's a command to endure
When I see "position" in scripture, I see ..well, the word ain't in tha mighty KJV! Lord, help us.
When I see the word "practical" in scripture, oops, same thing.

Let's just say that I make up some terms, say smarkwipple, and challenge you to define it. Ahahah! You don't know the first thing about smarkwipple!
Heathen.

11. They can’t tell you God’s future purposes for Israel or for the body of Christ. If you doubt this then ask them – don’t take my word for it.


12. They like to use high-sounding words with lots of “isms†on the end and accuse you of bein an “ism†to hide the fact that they don’t know the “tion†words of Paul.
I know the meaning of smarkwipple- do you?

13. They have no assurance of their salvation for at any moment they just might:
a. sin unto death
b. reject Christ
c. quite believing
d. deny Christ
e. forget to ask forgiveness
f. fail to follow their church’s teachings
And many, many more!

Summary of #13 – their salvation is dependent upon them not doing the above things listed and more. And when you bring the above up to them their comeback is, “You don’t believe in doing good works!â€Â


And finally – when you point out things like the above then they will accuse you of having no love.
I don't accuse you of having no love- I accuse you of holding a bible that looks something like this

I chose 13 points for the number 13 in the scriptures represents rebellion.

Have you seen one lately?
Yes, funny you should ask...
Keep your eyes open – watch!!!!

 

[Heidi]

Self-righteous Pharisees are difficult to spot these days due several reasons:
1. They have learned to hide behind the skirts of religion so they walk as tares among the wheat.
2. They go undetected due to the gross ignorance of the scriptures of today’s modern “Christianityâ€Â.

So, after dealing with these self-righteous Pharisees for over 22 years or so I thought I might give you some tips on how to spot one.

1. They have no final authority – they use tradition, whatever bible suits their fancy, their church and their leaders but never a final authority. They have rejected the authority of the King James Bible – the book God has been using to bring revival and to save sinners for the past 350 years or so.

2. Their favorite parts of the “bible†(even though it is not their final authority) are those parts that have nothing to do with the body of Christ and grace as it has been revealed to us by Paul. You will find them hanging around:
a. The OT – written doctrinally to and for Israel under the law before Calvary was even revealed. These books deal with an earthly kingdom.
b. The Gospels – written doctrinally to and for Israel under the law before the purpose of Calvary was even revealed. These books deal with an earthly kingdom meant for the nation of Israel. The disciple that walked with Christ for over 3 years did not even understand the death, burial, and resurrection so how can we expect modern-day self-righteous Pharisees to understand it.
c. Acts – a transitional book that shows God’s dealings with Israel and then transitioning to Paul and the opening up of the gospel to the Gentiles
d. Hebrews through Revelation - written doctrinally to and for Israel to be understood by Israel during the great tribulation. These books deal with an earthly kingdom. And when you mention this to them their comeback is usually, “You just don’t believe all the Bible like we do!â€Â

Summary – they lump all the scriptures together and make “bible goulash†and apply everything to everybody regardless of context. They make the poorest of bible students due to their blindness.

3. The books they are least familiar with are Paul’s – especially from Ephesians thru Philemon. If you don’t believe this then monitor their posts on different forums and just see how much they know about Paul. All they use Paul for is “out-of-context†verses which are practical exhortations which have nothing to do with true justification before God.

4. They are void of understand of the “tion†words of Paul: justification, sanctification, adoption, glorification, redemption, and regeneration, etc. If you doubt this then ask them to define the words as they are found in Paul.

5. They are void of understanding of the body of Christ and it’s uniqueness in scriptures.
If you doubt this then ask them – don’t take my word for it.

6. The confuse the outworking of salvation passages in the scriptures and make these passages mean justification.
Example. – If Paul were to say, “Study to shew thyselves approved…†they would twist that to mean, “If you don’t study then you won’t be saved.†They seem to apply every command to if you don’t do the command then you are not enduring to the end.

7. They seek to talk saints out of their salvation by seeking to get them to ignore Paul’s writings and turn their attention on themselves for their justification.

8. They have not a clue of what doctrinally took place at Calvary.
If you doubt this then ask them – don’t take my word for it.

9. They love to speak of obedience, following Christ, repentance, enduring to the end, suffering, etc. because they so much want to have a part in their salvation. All of those words are used to apply to their efforts. And when you bring the above up to them their comeback is, “You don’t believe in doing good works!â€Â

10.They couldn’t tell you the difference between standing vs. state or position vs. practical if their lives depended upon it. If you doubt this then ask them – don’t take my word for it.

11. They can’t tell you God’s future purposes for Israel or for the body of Christ. If you doubt this then ask them – don’t take my word for it.

12. They like to use high-sounding words with lots of “isms†on the end and accuse you of bein an “ism†to hide the fact that they don’t know the “tion†words of Paul.

13. They have no assurance of their salvation for at any moment they just might:
a. sin unto death
b. reject Christ
c. quite believing
d. deny Christ
e. forget to ask forgiveness
f. fail to follow their church’s teachings
And many, many more!

Summary of #13 – their salvation is dependent upon them not doing the above things listed and more. And when you bring the above up to them their comeback is, “You don’t believe in doing good works!â€Â

And finally – when you point out things like the above then they will accuse you of having no love.

I chose 13 points for the number 13 in the scriptures represents rebellion.

Have you seen one lately?

Keep your eyes open – watch!!!!

Again, good post, Av, especially the part about the their fear of the loss of their salvation and lack of trust in Christ's words that "No one can snatch them out of my hand."

But not only have I seen one, I've seen many. Paul said; "For there will come a time when men will not put up with sound doctrine but instead, to suit their own desires will surround themselves with a great number of teachers who say what itching ears want to hear." We are surrounded by Pharisees in our churches and clergy. The law can be summed up in one word; love. Works that come from faith take about as much effort as thanking someone from rescuing us from a burning fire. Therefore, doing good deeds should never be considered work. "For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks." Once the inside of our cup is cleaned, the outside will become clean as well.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Again, good post, Av, especially the part about the their fear of the loss of their salvation and lack of trust in Christ's words that "No one can snatch them out of my hand."

But not only have I seen one, I've seen many. Paul said; "For there will come a time when men will not put up with sound doctrine but instead, to suit their own desires will surround themselves with a great number of teachers who say what itching ears want to hear." We are surrounded by Pharisees in our churches and clergy. The law can be summed up in one word; love. Works that come from faith take about as much effort as thanking someone from rescuing us from a burning fire. Therefore, doing good deeds should never be considered work. "For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks." Once the inside of our cup is cleaned, the outside will become clean as well.

So you agree that the Gospels were written to Jews, not to us, same for James, and same for Hebrews- Revelation? You take no alarm at the tearing and rending of pages out of your bible?

Have the Reformed moved beyond sola scriptura to somewhat scriptura?

 

[Heidi]

Have you ever read the bible, Orthodox? :o

Jesus told his disciples to preach first to the Jews, then to the Gentiles. God wanted the Jews to have the first chance to accept or reject Christ because the Jews were the chosen people of God. The gospel is now open to everyone.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Have you ever read the bible, Orthodox? :o

Jesus told his disciples to preach first to the Jews, then to the Gentiles. God wanted the Jews to have the first chance to accept or reject Christ because the Jews were the chosen people of God. The gospel is now open to everyone.

Indeed I have, Heidi.
Did you read the post you "amened?" In it, AV claims that the Gospels are not for us Gentiles. Did you catch that? He also claims that James' letter is not for us either.

Now I'll ask again: do you agree with him about the gospels and James?

 

[AVBunyan]

Folks – get your doctrine straight!
According to scripture - what is scripture for first and primarily?

2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

First and foremost it is for doctrine.
What you folks are doing is saying every verse in the Bible is doctrine for you today. If this was true then why don’t you sacrifice a lamb – it’s in the Bible?!?!?!

All the Bible is written for you: Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

But not the Bible is written to you!

Example –
Genesis:
Doctrine – “Noah, build a boat or else!†(Paraphrasing here)
Application for me today – “If I want to be saved I need to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ!†or, “I need to be separated from the world!â€Â

Leviticus:
Doctrine – “Offer up a sin offering or else!†(Paraphrasing here)
Application for me today – “I should feel bad for sinning for it cost the life of that lamb – I am thankful for my Lamb which was sacrificed for me. Therefore I will seek to walk in the power of the Spirit and not sin!

Matthew
Doctrine – “Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!†i.e. Repent of your rejection of God the Father in the OT and believe that Jesus is your messiah and then you will have the right to enter into the earthly kingdom promised to Israel.
Application for me today – (as a believing saint) “I need to turn from my sinful ways for the Lord is coming at any moment!â€Â
Doctrine for sinner today – “I need to believe that Christ died for my sins, was buried and rose again!â€Â

Matthew
Doctrine – “Forgive or you will not be forgivenâ€Â
Doctrine for me today – “Because of Christ I am forgiven†Eph. 1:7; Col. 1:14
Application for me today – “I should forgive because Chrsit forgave me – Eph. 4:32
Mark –
Doctrine “Endure to the end to be saved.†I.e. Now that you are in the tribulation be faithful, don’t give in to the antichrist’s doctrine and your physical life will be spared.
Application for me today – I need to be faithful unto the end of my life – not being conformed to this world so that I will be a good testimony.

Get the doctrine for the people and age it was intended for and then make application from it. Don’t make your application doctrine for this age.

Ii believe and read Genesis thru Revelation – I have taught most of those books - but I know what is for me doctrinally and what is not for me doctrinally.

It appears some of you folks still do not know what is doctrinally for you today. All you do is twist and misinterpret what I say.

So, yes – there are parts in James, the Gospels and other places that are not doctrinally for me today. There is some doctrine for me today from those books. The doctrine of the tongue in James is right on. How does one know what is not for you today? Real simple – compare to Paul – if it doesn’t contradict Paul then you are safe. That is why you had better start with Paul – but some of you will not – you will go to those red letters only and completely miss the boat.

You had better learn what God has for Israel, as a nation, vs. what God has for the body of Christ today - mix them up and you have a mess!!!

 

[von]

You wrote:

7. They seek to talk saints out of their salvation by seeking to get them to ignore Paul’s writings and turn their attention on themselves for their justification.

This is the craziest thing I have ever heard. No one tries to talk anyone out of their salvation and we don't walk around with fear of losing our salvation. Maybe you need to learn a little more about it. We believe in serving the Lord in the beauty of Holiness. We believe that the Lord requires more than believing in Him but living a holy life before Him. It is not about works, no good works are going to do anything for anyone. It is about love for someone who gave their life for you. Do you really think that His death justifies what you are saying? He died a horrible death and if you think that asking forgiveness once and making no commitment to live for Him takes care of it all you are mistaken my friend. Why do you punish your children when they do wrong? Aren't they forgiven the moment they are born into your family? I know you are going to say, God does punish us, He just doesn't put us to hell. Well, wouldn't that be considered rebellion, to continue in sin just because you think you are not going to hell, but you are only going to be punished? Maybe you need to read. (and by the way I use only the KJV) It says if you commit adultery, fornication, and so forth you will go to the lake of fire and it is not talking to sinners. What is it about that that you can not understand?

 

[von]

Jesus Himself said, Mark 16:17 - These signs shall follow "them that believe". Not you few disciples, not the apostles, not a certain generation, but those who believe. Guess they won't follow you since you are not a believer in them. He also said it is for you, your children, and whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord. If these things are not for today then how can salvation be for today? You OSAS people sure have a convenient salvation.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

You wrote:

7. They seek to talk saints out of their salvation by seeking to get them to ignore Paul’s writings and turn their attention on themselves for their justification.

This is the craziest thing I have ever heard. No one tries to talk anyone out of their salvation and we don't walk around with fear of losing our salvation. Maybe you need to learn a little more about it. We believe in serving the Lord in the beauty of Holiness.

<Here insert a thundering "AMEN">

We believe that the Lord requires more than believing in Him but living a holy life before Him. It is not about works, no good works are going to do anything for anyone. It is about love for someone who gave their life for you. Do you really think that His death justifies what you are saying? He died a horrible death and if you think that asking forgiveness once and making no commitment to live for Him takes care of it all you are mistaken my friend. Why do you punish your children when they do wrong? Aren't they forgiven the moment they are born into your family? I know you are going to say, God does punish us, He just doesn't put us to hell. Well, wouldn't that be considered rebellion, to continue in sin just because you think you are not going to hell, but you are only going to be punished? Maybe you need to read. (and by the way I use only the KJV) It says if you commit adultery, fornication, and so forth you will go to the lake of fire and it is not talking to sinners. What is it about that that you can not understand?

Bravo. Excellent points, well stated.
James

 

[AVBunyan]

Crazy?

You wrote:
1. This is the craziest thing I have ever heard.
2. No one tries to talk anyone out of their salvation and we don't walk around with fear of losing our salvation.
3. Maybe you need to learn a little more about it.
4. We believe in serving the Lord in the beauty of Holiness.
5. We believe that the Lord requires more than believing in Him but living a holy life before Him.
6. It is not about works, no good works are going to do anything for anyone.
7. He died a horrible death and if you think that asking forgiveness once and making no commitment to live for Him takes care of it all you are mistaken my friend.
8. Why do you punish your children when they do wrong?
9. Aren't they forgiven the moment they are born into your family?
10.Well, wouldn't that be considered rebellion, to continue in sin just because you think you are not going to hell, but you are only going to be punished?
11. Maybe you need to read. (and by the way I use only the KJV) It says if you commit adultery, fornication, and so forth you will go to the lake of fire and it is not talking to sinners.

12. Jesus Himself said, Mark 16:17 - These signs shall follow "them that believe". Not you few disciples, not the apostles, not a certain generation, but those who believe. Guess they won't follow you since you are not a believer in them.
13. He also said it is for you, your children, and whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord.
14. If these things are not for today then how can salvation be for today?
15.You OSAS people sure have a convenient salvation.

1. Clear as crystal – please study II Tim. 2:15 prayfully.

2. By promoting one can lose salvation you are raising doubts in new saints and trampling upon Calvary – this is preaching another gospel - this Paul warns about in Gal. 1:8,9.

3. Been observing and studying your crowd and it’s writings for over 22 years now thank you.

4. Never said you were not and commend you for doing so – praise the Lord.

5. Then you are adding works to the doctrine of faith alone which Paul proclaimed.

6. ????????????

7. See #7 – my salvation was dependent upon a prayer or asking forgiveness – my salvation was based upon what Jesus did at Calvary. Who ever told you that regenerated saints do not desire to live for God? Are you trusting your great commitment?

8. So they will do right.

9. Not sure where you are heading – the movement God saved me I was forgiven forever – Eph. 1:7-13.

10.To continue in sin is rebellion – generally speaking a true saint can mess up but he will always return. Question for you – when your son sins is he still your son? If he runs away cursing you is he still your son? He will always be your son – fellowship may be severed - he will be miserable – but he is still and will always be your son. By the way – According to law a dad cannot disown an adopted son – hence the reason why Paul uses the term “adopted†and “adoption†in Romans and Galatians.

11. To what verse are you referring?

12. You are right – they won’t follow me - I’m not a Jew trying to get into an earthly kingdom!

13. You missed the context and the purpose for Israel, as a nation. Start from Gen. 3:1 and go forward – maybe God will show you.

14. See # 12 – I’m not a Jew trying to get into a kingdom by following my earthly messiah – see #13.

15. We have a great salvation based upon the finished work of Jesus Christ.

Where did you get the idea we believe in getting saved and living like we want.

The true grace believer has grace as its teacher and lives more godly and holy in this present world than those of you who believe you can lose it.

Wasn't that fun?

 

[Orthodoxy]

I think personally the modern day Pharisee will pray like this:

In the name of the Father, Amen. O'God I thank thee that I am not like that sinner over there. Look at him Lord, pathetic "worshipping Mary, "kissing idols", believing what men say. Why cant that sinner see things our way, O'Lord? You know how fervently I pray in Jesus name O'God. How much I love you O'Lord. You know O'God how much I love this man that I can only wish he knew what I know about you. Open his eyes O'Lord to the deeper understanding me and you hold in a mystical unknown way. Help this blind sinner to see. etc etc etc........

In Jesus name, Amen

There are millions of variations of this prayer and I am guilty of uttering a few like it from my protestant days.

My prayer as an Orthodox Christian for all you who are far off and in need of God's mercy and love is this:

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy (pour your grace) on us.

The story of the publican and the pharisee plainly shows the heart of the righteous and the heart of the hardened.

Thus are both known unto men.

Orthodoxy

 

[Orthodoxy]

I also personally think, in my opinion, the Pharisees and Scribes were "sola scriptura" adherant. One of Jesus Christ complaints against the Pharisees and Scribes was they held to the "letter of the law" without understanding the "heart of the law". This is what we see today in those that demand an adherance to "the final authority" of the bible in any version.

A glaring myth exposed. Did the pharisees understand they were blind, naked, without hope resting in the "letter of the law"?

Forgive them Father they know not what they do.

Lord have mercy.

Orthodoxy

 

[cj]

LOOK...... enough already, when is the picture of OC going to be posted?

It is the topic of this board isn't it.


In love,
cj

 

[Heidi]

Folks – get your doctrine straight!
According to scripture - what is scripture for first and primarily?

2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

First and foremost it is for doctrine.
What you folks are doing is saying every verse in the Bible is doctrine for you today. If this was true then why don’t you sacrifice a lamb – it’s in the Bible?!?!?!

All the Bible is written for you: Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

But not the Bible is written to you!

Example –
Genesis:
Doctrine – “Noah, build a boat or else!†(Paraphrasing here)
Application for me today – “If I want to be saved I need to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ!†or, “I need to be separated from the world!â€Â

Leviticus:
Doctrine – “Offer up a sin offering or else!†(Paraphrasing here)
Application for me today – “I should feel bad for sinning for it cost the life of that lamb – I am thankful for my Lamb which was sacrificed for me. Therefore I will seek to walk in the power of the Spirit and not sin!

Matthew
Doctrine – “Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!†i.e. Repent of your rejection of God the Father in the OT and believe that Jesus is your messiah and then you will have the right to enter into the earthly kingdom promised to Israel.
Application for me today – (as a believing saint) “I need to turn from my sinful ways for the Lord is coming at any moment!â€Â
Doctrine for sinner today – “I need to believe that Christ died for my sins, was buried and rose again!â€Â

Matthew
Doctrine – “Forgive or you will not be forgivenâ€Â
Doctrine for me today – “Because of Christ I am forgiven†Eph. 1:7; Col. 1:14
Application for me today – “I should forgive because Chrsit forgave me – Eph. 4:32
Mark –
Doctrine “Endure to the end to be saved.†I.e. Now that you are in the tribulation be faithful, don’t give in to the antichrist’s doctrine and your physical life will be spared.
Application for me today – I need to be faithful unto the end of my life – not being conformed to this world so that I will be a good testimony.

Get the doctrine for the people and age it was intended for and then make application from it. Don’t make your application doctrine for this age.

Ii believe and read Genesis thru Revelation – I have taught most of those books - but I know what is for me doctrinally and what is not for me doctrinally.

It appears some of you folks still do not know what is doctrinally for you today. All you do is twist and misinterpret what I say.

So, yes – there are parts in James, the Gospels and other places that are not doctrinally for me today. There is some doctrine for me today from those books. The doctrine of the tongue in James is right on. How does one know what is not for you today? Real simple – compare to Paul – if it doesn’t contradict Paul then you are safe. That is why you had better start with Paul – but some of you will not – you will go to those red letters only and completely miss the boat.

You had better learn what God has for Israel, as a nation, vs. what God has for the body of Christ today - mix them up and you have a mess!!!

We are no longer under the Old Covenant, Av, because the new replaces the old. We therefore read the OT through the mind of Christ once we receieve the Holy Spirit. So no verse in the bible, whether in the OT or the NT can be understood without the mind of Christ because Jesus says we have one teacher and that is the Christ. Therefore, no one who has the mind of Christ can ever say it's okay to sacrifice a lamb because Jesus has become our permanent sacrifice once and for all.

And that's why all new believers need to read the NT before the OT so they know what our Lord teaches us about scripture.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

I think personally the modern day Pharisee will pray like this:

In the name of the Father, Amen. O'God I thank thee that I am not like that sinner over there. Look at him Lord, pathetic "worshipping Mary, "kissing idols", believing what men say. Why cant that sinner see things our way, O'Lord? You know how fervently I pray in Jesus name O'God. How much I love you O'Lord. You know O'God how much I love this man that I can only wish he knew what I know about you. Open his eyes O'Lord to the deeper understanding me and you hold in a mystical unknown way. Help this blind sinner to see. etc etc etc........

In Jesus name, Amen

Yes, it seems as if plankeye is as easy to catch as pinkeye.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

LOOK...... enough already, when is the picture of OC going to be posted?

It is the topic of this board isn't it.


In love,
cj

OC the "topic of this board?"
Only in your eyes, sweetheart. :

I think you meant to say 'he's the topic of the thread, isn't he?'
Shame to see mediocre shtick get fumbled out of bounds in this manner.

 

[Vic C.]

LOOK...... enough already, when is the picture of OC going to be posted?

It is the topic of this board isn't it.


In love,
cj

:o

:-?

Warning...

Rule 2 - No Flaming:
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You won't be labeled as a troll if your post has substance.

 

[cj]

LOOK...... enough already, when is the picture of OC going to be posted?

It is the topic of this board isn't it.


In love,
cj

:o

:-?

Warning...

Rule 2 - No Flaming:
You will not post any messages that harass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another member or guest. This will include misquoting another member out of context. You may discuss another member's beliefs but there will be no personal attacks on the member himself or herself.

Rule 6 - No Trolling:
You will not post anything that disrupts the peace and harmony of this forum. Don't make inflammatory remarks just to get a response. This will also include posts that put down Christianity in general or any posts considered as blasphemy by staff (this is a CHRISTIAN FORUMS site).
You won't be labeled as a troll if your post has substance.

Ohh relax mighty one, even OC got the humor in it, or didn't you notice his reference to sweetheart.

But I understand and will continue to comply.

In love,
cj

 

[cj]

LOOK...... enough already, when is the picture of OC going to be posted?

It is the topic of this board isn't it.


In love,
cj

OC the "topic of this board?"
Only in your eyes, sweetheart. :

I think you meant to say 'he's the topic of the thread, isn't he?'
Shame to see mediocre shtick get fumbled out of bounds in this manner.

Fuddy duddy,..... "it" is the...... picture.


Sorry luv, the fumble was on you.

But hey, it was meant in light-heartedness, so lets not go any further with "it".

In love,
cj