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Proper way to read Revelation

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Just read it.
No interpretation needed.
If you or I saw what John saw we would write exactly what he did. (other than differences between Greek and your chosen language)

If this is not acceptable to you then you are saying that either John, the Angels, or Jesus is lying.
If "John really meant..." than you are saying John did not write what he saw.
etc.

Revelation... the only book of the Bible that is commanded by Jesus to be written.
Revelation... the only book of the Bible that contains a blessing for reading, hearing and keeping the words of this prophecy.
Revelation... the only book of the Bible that contains a curse for altering the text of the prophecy.

And Rev 1:3 says to keep the words of the prophecy... that mean not to alter the text.
If I ask you to keep my copy of a picutre at your place and you return it to me with an altered image... did you really keep my picture?
Exigesis not Isegesis. I swear that almost no one knows how to do it right.
 
If you or I saw what John saw we would write exactly what he did. (other than differences between Greek and your chosen language)
When you talk about "you or I " seeing what John saw, are you talking about us seeing the vision in John's time period or seeing the vision in our time we live in today ?
 
Exactly.
That sort of thinking leads to Isegesis.
What did I say? Did I stammer? Did I slur my words?
What I said is what I meant.
 
If I saw the same vision today that John saw @2000 years ago probably the only way that I would come to writing it just exactly as he did would be if the Holy Spirit directed me to .

Why ? Just maybe John was writing about things that exist in our world today and I would describe them for what they are known to us now.
 
If I saw the same vision today that John saw @2000 years ago probably the only way that I would come to writing it just exactly as he did would be if the Holy Spirit directed me to .

Why ? Just maybe John was writing about things that exist in our world today and I would describe them for what they are known to us now.
Incorrect about the only way to write exactly the same thing is if the Holy Spirit were to guide you... Not saying that He wouldn't.

If John couldn't describe them... then for John to be honest... he would have to say he didn't understand it.
If John saw a flaming sword in the mouth of Jesus... then that is what he saw. (or are you calling John a liar?)
If John saw locusts with mens faces, womens hair, and a scorpion tail... then that is what he saw.
If the Angel showed an Apache attack hellicopter as a locust... then the Angel lied.

So what is it?
Is what John wrote as it was shown to him... or was he or the Angels or Jesus lying?
 
I wish it was simple
Soon ,shortly .

In John's mind was it in his life time ,if so then well ,where is the last part ? Paradise and sin gone and Satan judged?

Is it a literal 1000 years or figurative ?

How many ressurection as paul mentions one ,and Jesus only one and John has two ,the dead live not again
Until after a thousand years .

Your premise that you need not any other book in the bible to reference .Amy prophecy ,vision by John can't contradict the others visions or words .
 
I'm amil but this has been and on and off study of mine and I'm at again .I expect to learn but it won't change that we don't know as a whole
 
I wish it was simple
Soon ,shortly .

In John's mind was it in his life time ,if so then well ,where is the last part ? Paradise and sin gone and Satan judged?

Is it a literal 1000 years or figurative ?

How many ressurection as paul mentions one ,and Jesus only one and John has two ,the dead live not again
Until after a thousand years .

Your premise that you need not any other book in the bible to reference .Amy prophecy ,vision by John can't contradict the others visions or words .
Who would you trust with the vision of the end times?
I would trust that Jesus would instruct His Angels to communicate with John exactly what He wanted communicated.
What does it matter what John believed about Revelation... Did he record it accurately? John's views are of no import as Revelation is a direct vision from Jesus... So not like anything else in the NT.
Literal or figurative would be a silly question if you trust John not to be lying.
There are no contradictions with other passages in the Bible... If you believe that John, Angels and Jesus were not lying.
Other passages in the Bible are open to interpretation... Not so with Revelation. If you trust the accuracy of the Word.

And what do you mean of your claim of Preterism? Am I preterist? Is Revelation? Are you? A one word answer is not enough to convey the thought in this case.

I stand with the Jesus dictated vision over the mentions of end times in other Biblical writers letters.
Did Jesus specifically command Paul to write about the resurrection?
Did Jesus specifically command any other NT writer to lay down what the end times look like?
Maybe Jesus needed to correct some of the ways the early Church was mis-applying what Paul and the others wrote... maybe.
 
I'm amil but this has been and on and off study of mine and I'm at again .I expect to learn but it won't change that we don't know as a whole
What don't we know as a whole? Please complete your ideas so we all can interact with your ideas as a whole.

Don't amil's look at Revelation as metaphor for the most part?
So you would then be saying the John is lying. He is not accurately reporting what was shown to him.
Or is Jesus being intentionally misleading and is He directing His Angels to mislead John?

Or am I not understanding your position?

I will just trust that John, the Angels and Jesus are telling the truth. If we can't agree, then I guess your part of the conversation would be coming to a close soon.
 
Who would you trust with the vision of the end times?
I would trust that Jesus would instruct His Angels to communicate with John exactly what He wanted communicated.
What does it matter what John believed about Revelation... Did he record it accurately? John's views are of no import as Revelation is a direct vision from Jesus... So not like anything else in the NT.
Literal or figurative would be a silly question if you trust John not to be lying.
There are no contradictions with other passages in the Bible... If you believe that John, Angels and Jesus were not lying.
Other passages in the Bible are open to interpretation... Not so with Revelation. If you trust the accuracy of the Word.

And what do you mean of your claim of Preterism? Am I preterist? Is Revelation? Are you? A one word answer is not enough to convey the thought in this case.

I stand with the Jesus dictated vision over the mentions of end times in other Biblical writers letters.
Did Jesus specifically command Paul to write about the resurrection?
Did Jesus specifically command any other NT writer to lay down what the end times look like?
Maybe Jesus needed to correct some of the ways the early Church was mis-applying what Paul and the others wrote... maybe.
Uhm the apostle John would have addressed that .you notice the visions of Daniel , Ezekiel and Isiah and Moses all are close .slight variance but you can't ignore

A full preterist takes it all done,soon and shortly meaning Satan is judged .

I get the vision problem
 
What don't we know as a whole? Please complete your ideas so we all can interact with your ideas as a whole.

Don't amil's look at Revelation as metaphor for the most part?
So you would then be saying the John is lying. He is not accurately reporting what was shown to him.
Or is Jesus being intentionally misleading and is He directing His Angels to mislead John?

Or am I not understanding your position?

I will just trust that John, the Angels and Jesus are telling the truth. If we can't agree, then I guess your part of the conversation would be coming to a close soon.
No ,if I were to be premil ,Jesus isn't coming to judge all but to simply redeem isreal and set up another church and saved people and yet Jesus says in no parables that at all.

Only that he is coming back and all must believed or be damned .

Amil is problematic but I also don't take the battles on horses on the earth as literal.


Isreal so decimated that war horses and battles of that and yet the ac controls all the world with his mark and can't negate buying .?

I don't take armegeddon as a local event as logically you would have too .
 
Uhm the apostle John would have addressed that .you notice the visions of Daniel , Ezekiel and Isiah and Moses all are close .slight variance but you can't ignore

A full preterist takes it all done,soon and shortly meaning Satan is judged .

I get the vision problem
John would have address what?

And no John would not have addressed something that was not part of his mandate from Jesus.
In this book of the Bible, John is a scribe. Not a teacher, nor apostle... a scribe that Jesus could trust to get His words right.

So are you calling me a Preterist? or Revelation as Preterist? or are you Preterist? You still haven't clarified that comment for me.
 
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Pre mil is another thread and well you will have myriads on that .

I prefer the simplicity of the didache if I must
 
John would have address what?

And no John would not have addressed something that was not part of his mandate from Jesus.
In this book of the Bible, John is a scribe. Not a teacher, nor apostle... a scribe that Jesus could trust to get His words right.

So are you calling me a Preterist? or Revelation as Preterist? or are you Preterist? You still haven't clarified that comment for me.

Sorry you need glasses... I got the LASIK many years ago and it went very well... or are you making another hard to follow comment?
So when John wrote 1st John and third and second and his book,heard and read the others .they just allow it?

Paul himself said a bit on the ac , ressurection.

I believe in the ressurection of that just and unjust .

Jesus mentions only one ressurection.see you want to pideon hole this into one statement of premillennialism.

Yet it's not that simple
 
Pre mil is another thread and well you will have myriads on that .

I prefer the simplicity of the didache if I must
Sorry I couldn't understand a word of what you are trying to communicate.
 
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Neither,
Defend how it can be two ressurections

When it's only one mentioned by Paul and Jesus ?

Daniel says that as well.
No pause ,no break
 
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Sorry I couldn't understand a word of what you are trying to communicate.
You don't know the oldest doctrine after the Bible that is basic tenent on baptism and communion and end times ,written one hundred years after John's death ?

A simple paragraph on escahtology .that's it.dont take the mark ,oops they didn't take as in John's lifetime it didn't happen and they looked ,look for the man of sin .the judgement and the here after .

It's not the Bible but it's simple and easy .
 
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Neither,
Defend how it can be two ressurections

When it's only one mentioned by Paul and Jesus ?

Daniel says that as well.
No pause ,no break
I can't follow your logic as you are missing all sorts of details. References would be nice.

But I see you want to argue... so I will be ignoring you if you persist.
 
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