Prosecuted for a hate crime instead of murder….scary

[D-D-W]

D-D-W, I’m listening to Derek Prince who studied philosophy and taught on University level, I believe and he just said although he had studied all the philosophies, he found them inadequate. But when he found the Lord and started reading the Bible, he saw that the Bible is completely logical. “It made sense and it (went) on doing that for 50 years.” He was a professional logician. He loved Plato and the ancient philosophers but found the logic of the Bible vastly superior making SENSE finally.

Great! I met and talked with Dr Prince one-on-one a few times. When I was in college he visited our congregation many times. And yes, before coming to faith he taught Greek philosophy at Cambridge (graduate level).

 

[Milk-Drops]

Only if it goes to court. Do you really think that the Supreme Court rulings change how people individually behave? Besides, ten years later they can reverse. It’s called reality.

Ok, So we are so far off from the original point. You were concerned of Christians for being charged with hate crimes for being christian.....and I showed you that legally it's not about disagreeing with someth8ng but committing a crime with motivation based on race, sex, religion,creed, age, ability, or sexual orientation.

So your concern now is someone might be meN to Christians in general?


I mean I know everyone has to deal with Noying people. That's life.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Ok, So we are so far off from the original point. You were concerned of Christians for being charged with hate crimes for being christian.....and I showed you that legally it's not about disagreeing with someth8ng but committing a crime with motivation based on race, sex, religion,creed, age, ability, or sexual orientation.

So your concern now is someone might be meN to Christians in general?


I mean I know everyone has to deal with Noying people. That's life.

Do you really think no one in the US is being fired for reasons not heard of 30 years ago? Have you heard about males competing against females in sporting events and the females are too afraid to protest lest they lose their scholarship? The point is the justice system is not trustworthy. Would you believe this if I gave you cases? Last time you demanded hard evidence and all witnesses have is their testimony which is usually accepted in US courts as valid without any hard evidence unless they think there are personal motives to lie.

My point is that those who take a stand for Jesus’ commandments might more easily find themselves in legal trouble….same as those who oppose WOKE and BLM and other ungodly movements. The world in many western nations has changed. Do you disagree?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Great! I met and talked with Dr Prince one-on-one a few times. When I was in college he visited our congregation many times. And yes, before coming to faith he taught Greek philosophy at Cambridge (graduate level).

You are very fortunate. Would you be willing to start a biblical logic vs Aristotelian logic thread? It would be something I’ve never engaged in and am eager to think it through and test my own suspicions. If doesn’t test one’s theories, how can one know if what one thinks matches reality?

 

[Milk-Drops]

Do you really think no one in the US is being fired for reasons not heard of 30 years ago?

Yeah, because all the power is in the employer. Worker protections are not that great here.

Have you heard about males competing against females in sporting events and the females are too afraid to protest lest they lose their scholarship?

Have I heard talk8ng points in theblatest culture war distraction? Yep.

The point is the justice system is not trustworthy. Would you believe this if I gave you cases? Last time you demanded hard evidence and all witnesses have is their testimony which is usually accepted in US courts as valid without any hard evidence unless they think there are personal motives to lie.

Witness testimony, on its own is not usually strong evidence. Usually it's used as corroborative evidence alongside hard evidence.

My point is that those who take a stand for Jesus’ commandments might more easily find themselves in legal trouble….same as those who oppose WOKE and BLM and other ungodly movements. The world in many western nations has changed. Do you disagree?

What you are saying is way too vague. Legal trouble how? What woke mob? Twitter trolls? BLM? Are you shooting black people?

I th8nk its more that commentators you might be listening to are trying to convince you the world is on fire because they want rating.left, right, nuetral, etc all have motivations to keep you listening.

 

[WIP]

Yeah, because all the power is in the employer. Worker protections are not that great here.

Not all the power. Right now in fact employees, those willing to work, have a lot of power and many are beginning to exercise that power in demanding higher pay, changes in working conditions, etc. When employees are able to be selective, as they are now, employers are forced to make changes or go out of business.

 

[Milk-Drops]

Not all the power. Right now in fact employees, those willing to work, have a lot of power and many are beginning to exercise that power in demanding higher pay, changes in working conditions, etc. When employees are able to be selective, as they are now, employers are forced to make changes or go out of business.

I should have thought about that. My area learned that real quick, and it's kind of funny watching lazy middle people getting upset that people don't want to break their bodies for barely above minimum wage.

I think a more accurate way of saying what I said is that legally employers have a lot of leeway. Most people don't get on twitter starting race or sex drama, or put their personal views on facebook/insert social media here.

 

[D-D-W]

Not all the power. Right now in fact employees, those willing to work, have a lot of power and many are beginning to exercise that power in demanding higher pay, changes in working conditions, etc. When employees are able to be selective, as they are now, employers are forced to make changes or go out of business.

I worked for several years (20+) in the Tool and Die industry as a Design Engineer. It was typical to pay wages that required overtime to make a decent income. 55-60 hours a week was typical. There was also a lot of turn over, with people not working for any company more than a couple of years.

One of the last companies I worked for in that industry had a personnel policy with a point system. If you punch in late by 1 minute, you get a half point. If you punch out early by one minute - half a point. You had to punch out and back in for lunch break. If it was more than 15 minutes either way it was a whole point. So it was actually possible to score 4 points in a single day. Any more than 6 points in a 6 month period resulted in a 3 day suspension without pay, typically a Tuesday-Thursday to not give the employee a long weekend; and that was timed at the discretion of the immediate supervisor. It could be even a year or more after the offense. The addition of even another half point before the suspension was done resulted in immediate dismissal. There was no paid sick leave. "Vacation leave" was a check given for 2 weeks pay annually. You had to schedule the actual time off weeks in advance, and it did not count in your pay for computing overtime.

 

[WIP]

I worked for several years (20+) in the Tool and Die industry as a Design Engineer. It was typical to pay wages that required overtime to make a decent income. 55-60 hours a week was typical. There was also a lot of turn over, with people not working for any company more than a couple of years.

One of the last companies I worked for in that industry had a personnel policy with a point system. If you punch in late by 1 minute, you get a half point. If you punch out early by one minute - half a point. You had to punch out and back in for lunch break. If it was more than 15 minutes either way it was a whole point. So it was actually possible to score 4 points in a single day. Any more than 6 points in a 6 month period resulted in a 3 day suspension without pay, typically a Tuesday-Thursday to not give the employee a long weekend; and that was timed at the discretion of the immediate supervisor. It could be even a year or more after the offense. The addition of even another half point before the suspension was done resulted in immediate dismissal. There was no paid sick leave. "Vacation leave" was a check given for 2 weeks pay annually. You had to schedule the actual time off weeks in advance, and it did not count in your pay for computing overtime.

Competition for workers plays a huge role in what employers will pay. Finding workers willing and able to sweep a floor is easy and a company doesn't have to look further than its own community. People that fill those positions come dime a dozen. For this reason, the value for that type of position is low and the job pays less. Finding workers to fill positions that require higher skill or education levels requires a company to look farther out. Depending on the skill/education level, some of those positions require an employer to look statewide. Competition for a still higher skill/education level position may be regional or countrywide or even worldwide. The farther out a company has to look to fill those position, the higher the salary becomes.

I worked for a company that designed and built industrial packaging machinery. I worked in the electrical design group. At one point management determined that the demographics of filling some of the higher skilled positions, such as my electrical design position, had changed over the years due to the changes in technological advancement. So, they made the decision to restructure the pay scales for many of the skilled positions including electrical design and engineering in order to attract workers from a larger regional area. As a result, my job class pay scale took a nice jump as did my own salary. They also did this because they were concerned about the potential for those skilled workers already employed to leave for better offers from our competition.

 

[D-D-W]

Competition for workers plays a huge role in what employers will pay. Finding workers willing and able to sweep a floor is easy and a company doesn't have to look further than its own community. People that fill those positions come dime a dozen. For this reason, the value for that type of position is low and the job pays less. Finding workers to fill positions that require higher skill or education levels requires a company to look farther out. Depending on the skill/education level, some of those positions require an employer to look statewide. Competition for a still higher skill/education level position may be regional or countrywide or even worldwide. The farther out a company has to look to fill those position, the higher the salary becomes.

In general that is true. But the way that company's rules were written they often shot themselves in the foot. Shortly before I left there a man who had a pregnant wife got into trouble with the point system and was given a suspension. He was a die repairman. (rare skill-set) In the tool and die industry Saturday work is fairly common but not universal, even in the same company. It was winter and his suspension had not happened yet. One Saturday morning he was NOT scheduled to work, but there had been a crash overnight and they needed him to get that die back in operation ASAP. So he got up and drove but bad road conditions (lake effect snow) made him punch in a couple of minutes late. He got the die back up and going. Monday when he arrived for work the head of HR told him to pack his stuff up as he had been fired. I quit shortly after that and I have no idea how long it took to find a replacement for him.

Addendum: In that company your 2 week "vacation" check was given on the anniversary of your hire date. If you let them know you were leaving a minute BEFORE that check was in your hand, you would never see it. So on my date, the boss handed me the check (which I quickly stuffed in by back pocket) and then handed him my resignation. He tried to grab the vacation check back but it was out of his reach, and there were others in the office at the time so he did not try to wrestle me for it.

 

[WIP]

In general that is true. But the way that company's rules were written they often shot themselves in the foot. Shortly before I left there a man who had a pregnant wife got into trouble with the point system and was given a suspension. He was a die repairman. (rare skill-set) In the tool and die industry Saturday work is fairly common but not universal, even in the same company. It was winter and his suspension had not happened yet. One Saturday morning he was NOT scheduled to work, but there had been a crash overnight and they needed him to get that die back in operation ASAP. So he got up and drove but bad road conditions (lake effect snow) made him punch in a couple of minutes late. He got the die back up and going. Monday when he arrived for work the head of HR told him to pack his stuff up as he had been fired. I quit shortly after that and I have no idea how long it took to find a replacement for him.

Addendum: In that company your 2 week "vacation" check was given on the anniversary of your hire date. If you let them know you were leaving a minute BEFORE that check was in your hand, you would never see it. So on my date, the boss handed me the check (which I quickly stuffed in by back pocket) and then handed him my resignation. He tried to grab the vacation check back but it was out of his reach, and there were others in the office at the time so he did not try to wrestle me for it.

Of course, you only know the one side of the story too. In the end it is a business relationship.

I recently inquired about putting solar power on our home. The first salesman I contacted for a proposal said he would have my proposal in a couple days and we would communicate via video conference. I waited nearly a week before I sent an email asking when he would be ready. He set up a time for the meeting and when that time came, I logged in and waited. I sat there for about 1/2 hour and then hung up the call. I finally got an email from him with all kinds of reasons or excuses for not being able to make our meeting. Supposedly he had family issues to take care of. Maybe true, maybe not but had he been doing his job right he would have sent me a message to let me know he was not able to finish my proposal on time and then he would have also sent message before the meeting to let me know we'd have to reschedule. Well, we rescheduled and again he was unable to make that meeting and he of course had a couple reasons or excuses for that. Third time's the charm I guess as we finally connected, almost a month after first contact. One thing is for sure, I had lost confidence in the company because of his incompetence and the likelihood of me hiring them to do the work was very low. There are other companies that I can hire to do that work.

 

[D-D-W]

Of course, you only know the one side of the story too. In the end it is a business relationship.

Business relationship - yes. But I do know a bit more than just one side.

I heard the side from the guy who got fired. My boss's boss (son of the company owner) wanted an exit interview and we discussed that situation (with names) during the talk. Dear old dad was wanting to retire and had to decide which son to pass it on to. They both were trying to dad how much they could whip the people into shape to increase profits. I previously had tried to talk with dad and the 2 sons about the division of labor, and the labor rules. The owner family was Salary (salary exempt) and everyone else including administrative dept heads were regular hourly. And that meant the same work rules had to apply to the people running the machines spitting out parts, us in the engineering staff, the tool makers, and almost everyone in the front office had to have the same work rules designed for the production line workers. But what they did NOT know was there is a 3rd class - Salary NON exempt - that still allowed overtime for engineering staff and tool makers, but allowed for more relaxed work rules. They opted to not make that change. So during the interview I cited the firing of the die repair man as part of my reason for leaving. At the end his response was "I can run my company any way I like." I replied "Of course you can. But I do not have to stay and be a part of that." So I heard the son's position as well.

 

[WIP]

I heard the side from the guy who got fired. My boss's boss (son of the company owner) wanted an exit interview and we discussed that situation (with names) during the talk.

It sounds like you were/are in management position. In either case, I'm surprised that you could do this. If anyone else in the company learned that you were sharing this kind of information, I wouldn't be surprised if they left the company or at the very least they probably should.

 

[D-D-W]

It sounds like you were/are in management position. In either case, I'm surprised that you could do this. If anyone else in the company learned that you were sharing this kind of information, I wouldn't be surprised if they left the company or at the very least they probably should.

No - I was a tool and die design engineer. We (designers) of course had friends among the tool makers that had to read and understand our designs in order to make them. But everyone knew everyone else pretty much (except for the production line workers)

And the Tool and Die industry back in the 90s in that geographical area, all the designers and draftsmen knew each other and the other companies as well. It was very fluid. Work here for 2 years, there for the next 3. Someplace else after that. There was less turn around with the builders, but some there as well.

They were all small to medium size companies. This one was unique in that they not only built dies and tooling, they used the tooling themselves for production.

 

[Christ_empowered]

Work is becoming a nightmare for many people. I think it’s more common in the USA but a frien now living in England tells me it’s becoming a problem there too.

I couldn’t even work minimum wage jobs without extreme bullying and underhanded tactics. My experience is but one of many at all strata of the labor force.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Work is becoming a nightmare for many people. I think it’s more common in the USA but a frien now living in England tells me it’s becoming a problem there too.

I couldn’t even work minimum wage jobs without extreme bullying and underhanded tactics. My experience is but one of many at all strata of the labor force.

Right now at this late stage in my working career I'm comfortable and don't have to endure all the games played by people fearing for their jobs.

 

[Christ_empowered]

It’s a long story but people I worked with tried to ruin my parents careers and…blah blah blah they had to move to other states. Intense…

Glad your working situation is better.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It’s a long story but people I worked with tried to ruin my parents careers and…blah blah blah they had to move to other states. Intense…

Glad your working situation is better.

The corporate world is very ugly...but so are small town economies where people fight over the few jobs there are like dogs over a slab of meat. Honestly? Of the two evils, the corporate world is better.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I can’t really compare. I honestly got pushed past my limit I. Part because of that nonsense. It’s part of the reason I have. The schizophrenia label now. As a side note…

Psych labels make it harder to get work in and of themselves. This keeps people in the mental patient role or at least contributes. Blah I’m personally blessed in my own life but I’ve seen some tragic situations from all that junk.