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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Proverbs 16:4
- Thread starter crossnote
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Every man is evil, until they choose to repent of sin.
Pick your path.
crossnote
Member
Please address the verse especially this part, ‘the Lord has made the wicked for the day of evil’.
You forgot this verse...
KJV Ecc 1:13 And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done
under heaven: this sore7451 travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith.
Word Study: H7451 רע ra‛, ָרָעה
rā‛āh: An adjective meaning bad, evil.
Concordant OT Ecc 1:13 “It is an experience of evil Elohin [God] has given to the sons of humanity to humble
them by it.”
Like the wicked for the day of evil, God also made the righteous for the day of redemption.
But men make up their own minds on which sector they belong to.
crossnote
Member
So are you saying that God made some wicked and some righteous?
God made them all, and all started out wicked (after hitting the age of reason).
But some have turned to righteousness.
No... pretty sure he was saying scripture is saying that! He just pointed it out to you.
Check this out....
Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility — not willingly but because of God who subjected it — in hope...
Not willingly indeed!!!
Paul
crossnote
Member
So God ordained the Fall?
Rom 9:22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
Prepared = Strongs - 2675. katartizó
Usage: (a) I fit (join) together; met: I compact together, (b) act. and mid: I prepare, perfect, for his (its) full destination or use, bring into its proper condition (whether for the first time, or after a lapse).
"to adjust," which is derived from 739 /ártios, "properly adjusted") – properly, exactly fit (adjust) to be in good working order, i.e. adjusted exactly "down" to fully function.
1Pe 2:8 and “A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.
Destined = Strongs 5087. tithémi
Definition: to place, lay, set
Prepared = Strongs - 2675. katartizó
Usage: (a) I fit (join) together; met: I compact together, (b) act. and mid: I prepare, perfect, for his (its) full destination or use, bring into its proper condition (whether for the first time, or after a lapse).
"to adjust," which is derived from 739 /ártios, "properly adjusted") – properly, exactly fit (adjust) to be in good working order, i.e. adjusted exactly "down" to fully function.
1Pe 2:8 and “A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.
Destined = Strongs 5087. tithémi
Definition: to place, lay, set
Yes, you need to get a Biblical theology.
Heb_2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
His purpose for creation was to bring many sons to glory. He would perfect their captain through suffering. How would their captain suffer without the fall?
Eph 1:9 he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.
The first creation was never intended to be permanent. It was intended to fall and then brought to fulfillment through the suffering, death and resurrection of Christ.
crossnote
Member
Edward
2024 Supporter
The scripture soesn't really say I think. But since we know Romans 8:28
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose..../
That all of this on earth is only a learning experience. That's why He kept repeating through scrpture, do not fear, Fear Not. I think there's a chance that all of these things living in the natural isn't really happening (We are seated in Heavenly places with Christ!)
So we're just here for the experience and to grow and learn. Some of us people probably got curious in Heaven? Maybe somebody said, God, why do we call you good? What does good mean?
Well it means the opposite of Bad.
What does bad mean?
We didn't know! There had never been any evil in Heaven before Lucifer fell. And they booted him out quick.
What is good?
What is Love?
What is Bad?
What is evil?
We did not know yet. Maybe even some of the Angels didn't know either. Maybe some Angels are learning about evil by watching us? (We sure must seem stupid to them! Lol) And God is the kind of guy who when His children ask Him a question, He likes to answer them and teach them.
So here we are.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose..../
That all of this on earth is only a learning experience. That's why He kept repeating through scrpture, do not fear, Fear Not. I think there's a chance that all of these things living in the natural isn't really happening (We are seated in Heavenly places with Christ!)
So we're just here for the experience and to grow and learn. Some of us people probably got curious in Heaven? Maybe somebody said, God, why do we call you good? What does good mean?
Well it means the opposite of Bad.
What does bad mean?
We didn't know! There had never been any evil in Heaven before Lucifer fell. And they booted him out quick.
What is good?
What is Love?
What is Bad?
What is evil?
We did not know yet. Maybe even some of the Angels didn't know either. Maybe some Angels are learning about evil by watching us? (We sure must seem stupid to them! Lol) And God is the kind of guy who when His children ask Him a question, He likes to answer them and teach them.
So here we are.
Dorothy Mae
Member
God didn’t make wicked people or make people wicked so that He can punish them.
What it means is God has an order for things and a plan to deal with all human choices. Those choices are freely made.
crossnote
Member
the carnal mind is enmity against God Romans 8:7
We were dead in trespasses and sins; Ephesians 2:1
We ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. Titus 3:3
We were in the power of darkness, and have been translated into the kingdom of His dear Son Colossians 1:13
We were
shapen in iniquity; Psalms 51:5
Ok, the choices are freely made, but the choices follow the desires of the old Adamic nature, otherwise why the constant exhortation to 'be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind'?
Dorothy Mae
Member
Don’t have a carnal mind and there’s no enmity against God.
Dead people don’t sin. They can’t. They cannot make any choices.
Describes some but not all.
Still, free choices were made.
No, That’s not what it says. You changed it. David speaks solely of himself (say “I” not “we”) because it was thought that his mother had committed adultery. Jeremiah who was legitimate, said he was fearfully and wonderfully made in his mothers womb.
There is no “old Adamic nature”in scripture. We sin because “we want and don’t have. We don’t have because we don’t ask. We ask and don’t receive because we ask with wrong motives.”
crossnote
Member
I was describing a non believer, not you.
Spiritually dead and at enmity toward God their choices go against God and His will.
Titus 3:3 described my life to a T before Christ.
We made choices but were not free. They were according to our sinful nature.
I didn't change a thing, again...
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.KJV (Psa 51:5)
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.NASB(Psa 51:5)
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.ESV(Psa 51:5)
Pick your verse (your choice) but neither is saying what Jeremiah said (apples and oranges).
Reread Romans 7 and...
For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.
(Rom 8:3-5)
Even in the Christian...
For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
(Gal 5:17)
I have given you many Scriptures, can you be so kind as to return the favor?
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Dorothy Mae
Member
Scripture doesn’t say “unbelievers” but only “carnal mind.”
I rejoice that are now found in Him. I sincerely do. That’s really wonderful!!! May there be more of those who can say with you this testimony!!
We don’t have a sinful nature and we are and were free. We do sin and with time, that becomes our character/nature.
All first person David addressing himself and himself alone. (Notice the mother was subbing when he was conceived.)
That’s because Jeremiah wasn’t a child conceived in adultery.
Notice they SET THEIR MINDS which is choice pure.
Notice “desires” of the flesh which can bring forth sin.
crossnote
Member
Can you give me some Scriptural support for your objections?
I know it's hard work, but that's what Christians have in common in determining spiritual truths.
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Dorothy Mae
Member
Of course there are no scriptures saying false understandings we have today aren’t true. But what we do have is what the authors thought about the matters.
James says the reason we sin is not because we have a sin nature or carnal mind we can’t help, but because we want and don’t have. Surely you know that passage. It was the golden opportunity to explain sin in the theology that it’s our nature and he did the opposite.
Now, have you ever met someone whose mind is, in modern terms, in the gutter? That’s a carnal mind set on sensual pleasures. Those people probably never have a pure thought. I don’t like being around them as only filth comes out.
If we look at that very interesting exchange between God and Cain we, again, see God Almighty laying the responsibility directly in Cain in his struggle with sin. What did God say? Sin is crouching at the door. Sin was OUTSIDE of him and wanted in. He, Cain, needed to defeat it. There’s no mention of his father Adam’s sinful nature he couldn’t help. God said it was his choice.
But Crossnote, if you keep
going down this path, you’ll find a new freedom but also the weight of your own choice. They’ll be no excuse for sin anymore. And what is worse, those in the church who strongly hold that excuse will not like being told that sin is their own choice and they could have resisted. There is NO sin that He doesn’t provide an escape for…if we want the escape.
(Do you recognize the scriptures woven in the above?)