Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38 & 39 Nations

[Kathi]

 

[for_his_glory]

Psa 83:5 For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee:

And the last Empire being the Roman Empire will be the end time confederate that becomes an abomination to God in it's political, economic and religious war of power

Babylonian Empire:
(Iraq) The lion represents the winged lions that guarded the royal places of Babylon.

Medo – Persian Empire:
(Iran) The ribs of the bear are part of the consuming greed that devours the first empire.

Grecian Empire:
(Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt) Four wings of the leopard described the swiftness of this empire that ran from 334-331BC. It wrestled world dominion from Medo-Persia. After the death of Alexander the Great the kingdom was divided into four minor kingdoms that continued as prominent factors in world politics until the Roman Empire gathered it back as one kingdom.

Roman Empire:
Iron represents the stronghold this nation had. Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.

 

[tim-from-pa]

I noticed (my observation) that end time groups of nations seem to fall generally into the 4 Semitic-Japhetic-Hamidic-Israel groups, of Naoh's sons.

The way I see it, psalm 83 is taken to mean the 10-nation confederacy (the King of the North aka the beast or Antichrist). Germany is in that list as well as some nations in the middle east. This will pair up with the false church which will be a unified religion of Christianity, Judaism and modern Muslim. This is how I see the beast making that agreement with Israel. These are Semitic peoples.

The "King of the South" will be the more radial Muslims, in which the likes of ISIS will be part. They will cause lots and lots of trouble but will not prevail. Historically that also involved Egypt. These have more Hamidic in them.

The likes of Gog and Magog and their associated nations are associated with Russia today, and China and other such eastern nations (Jephetic). This is Ezekiel 38 and so forth.

And lastly, there's Jacob. These are the Jews, the nation of Israel, the people of NW Europe, Britain and the USA. These will be persecuted severely during the Tribulation, invasion, famine, disease, captivity, etc. as prophesied in Leviticus and Deuteronomy as well as the prophets before being brought back into the land during the time of Christ.

Now I just identified the groups as a whole, so if we want to ask ourselves where an obscure nation such as Argentina will fit in, I would say with Gog if they are Japhetic, but they also paired with Germany historically. But they won't be part of the King of the south or Israel, I can say that much.

I have an excellent book "Origin of the Nations" which identified peoples of various nations today all over the world with various middle eastern nations as many of them migrated over the years.

 

[Sinthesis]

I noticed (my observation) that end time groups of nations seem to fall generally into the 4 Semitic-Japhetic-Hamidic-Israel groups, of Naoh's sons.

Noah didn't have four sons. Israel/Jacob is descended from Shem.

 

[Sinthesis]

The confederates of Psalm 83 (literal)

• Edom (descendants of Esau)
• Ishmaelites (descendants of Ishmael)
• Moab (descendants of Lot)
• Hagarenes
• Gebal
• Ammon (descendants of Lot)
• Amalek (descendants of Esau)
• Philistines
• Tyre
• Assur (Assyria)
• Children of Lot (Ammonites and Moabites)

Perhaps a case could be made that the Ishmaelites still exist within Islam, but the rest have clearly been judged by God and lost to history as a fulfillment of the 83rd Psalm.

 

[jasonc]

ASSHUR? those guys are now Christians and are in persecution in Iraq.

 

[Adstar]

People need to understand that there are two great battles. These two battles are separated by the 1000 year kingdom of Jesus. The battle of Armageddon happens at the return of the Lord Jesus. The second battle happens at the end of the 1000 years and it happens just before the final judgement. The battle prophecised in Ezekiel 38 & 39 happens just before the final judgement. If you read Revelation 19 you will see the return of Jesus and continuing on in Revelation 20 you will read about the 1000 year reign of the Messiah Jesus and at the end of Revelation 20 you will see the battle of Ezekiel 38&39 detailed.

The war revealed in Daniel chapter 11 between the evil King of the North and the evil king of the South will happen before the battle of Armageddon before the return of Jesus. This war is a part of the ""wars and talk of wars""

 

[Sinthesis]

ASSHUR? those guys are now Christians and are in persecution in Iraq.

Really? Then why a Psalm praying for their destruction at the hand of God?

 

[tim-from-pa]

People need to understand that there are two great battles. These two battles are separated by the 1000 year kingdom of Jesus. The battle of Armageddon happens at the return of the Lord Jesus. The second battle happens at the end of the 1000 years and it happens just before the final judgement. The battle prophecised in Ezekiel 38 & 39 happens just before the final judgement. If you read Revelation 19 you will see the return of Jesus and continuing on in Revelation 20 you will read about the 1000 year reign of the Messiah Jesus and at the end of Revelation 20 you will see the battle of Ezekiel 38&39 detailed.

The war revealed in Daniel chapter 11 between the evil King of the North and the evil king of the South will happen before the battle of Armageddon before the return of Jesus. This war is a part of the ""wars and talk of wars""

I understand that theologians scratch their heads as to the exact time of the Ezekiel 38-39 battle, and there's different opinions. I am not committed to any one view, but I just want to point out one thing. In Revelation Gog and Magog seems to come from the 4 corners, while in Ezekiel it talks about North of the land of Israel? Or do you consider Gog and Magog as being separate from the nations of the 4-corners? The reason I ask is I'm wondering if there's two such battles? (Also notice how each one ends up that seems to be differing results)

 

[jasonc]

Really? Then why a Psalm praying for their destruction at the hand of God?

remember that most kingdoms in the bible weren't destroyed as none lived just that they had no homes. the assyro-chaldeans(asyrria-Babylon) are aramiac speaking Christians.the bible says god judged Egypt and yet they weren't destroyed forever.

 

[Sinthesis]

remember that most kingdoms in the bible weren't destroyed as none lived just that they had no homes. the assyro-chaldeans(asyrria-Babylon) are aramiac speaking Christians.the bible says god judged Egypt and yet they weren't destroyed forever.

Think about what a kingdom is. It is a socio-economic organization of people. It is not the people themselves, nor the land they inhabit, but the way some people and land are organized under authority. The actual people and land area of a kingdom can change over time as long as the authorized organization is maintained. Kingdoms are destroyed when they lose all authority over their people and land. The Assyria of Psalm 83 was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon. The people who today live where Assyria once was may want to identify themselves with the glory of the inhabitants of Nineveh 2600yrs before, but they share nothing beyond location. Do you consider yourself Timucuan because of where you now live?

God did judge Egypt, and the ancient Egyptian socio-economic organization that God judged is long gone. The physical place still exists, but the inhabitants have another language, religion, and government, so they belong to a different Egyptian 'kingdom' than those of the myriad 'Egypts' in the OT.

 

[Sinthesis]

I understand that theologians scratch their heads as to the exact time of the Ezekiel 38-39 battle, and there's different opinions. I am not committed to any one view, but I just want to point out one thing. In Revelation Gog and Magog seems to come from the 4 corners, while in Ezekiel it talks about North of the land of Israel? Or do you consider Gog and Magog as being separate from the nations of the 4-corners? The reason I ask is I'm wondering if there's two such battles? (Also notice how each one ends up that seems to be differing results)

Ezekiel 38 and 39 describe two separate conflicts.

 

[Sinthesis]

I understand that theologians scratch their heads as to the exact time of the Ezekiel 38-39 battle, and there's different opinions. I am not committed to any one view, but I just want to point out one thing. In Revelation Gog and Magog seems to come from the 4 corners, while in Ezekiel it talks about North of the land of Israel? Or do you consider Gog and Magog as being separate from the nations of the 4-corners? The reason I ask is I'm wondering if there's two such battles? (Also notice how each one ends up that seems to be differing results)

And they are not single battles, but extended campaigns.

 

[jasonc]

Think about what a kingdom is. It is a socio-economic organization of people. It is not the people themselves, nor the land they inhabit, but the way some people and land are organized under authority. The actual people and land area of a kingdom can change over time as long as the authorized organization is maintained. Kingdoms are destroyed when they lose all authority over their people and land. The Assyria of Psalm 83 was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon. The people who today live where Assyria once was may want to identify themselves with the glory of the inhabitants of Nineveh 2600yrs before, but they share nothing beyond location. Do you consider yourself Timucuan because of where you now live?

God did judge Egypt, and the ancient Egyptian socio-economic organization that God judged is long gone. The physical place still exists, but the inhabitants have another language, religion, and government, so they belong to a different Egyptian 'kingdom' than those of the myriad 'Egypts' in the OT.

the Egyptian as we know after exodus still existed until it was conquered by alexander the great.. archeology has confirmed that the descendents of Assyria and Chaldea are still around. that is what meant. though Egypt had been conquered again under Babylon. but still pharaohs were around. the dynasty of pharaoh that was killed in the events of exodus didn't live on but another took his place.

 

[Adstar]

I understand that theologians scratch their heads as to the exact time of the Ezekiel 38-39 battle, and there's different opinions. I am not committed to any one view, but I just want to point out one thing. In Revelation Gog and Magog seems to come from the 4 corners, while in Ezekiel it talks about North of the land of Israel? Or do you consider Gog and Magog as being separate from the nations of the 4-corners? The reason I ask is I'm wondering if there's two such battles? (Also notice how each one ends up that seems to be differing results)

Ezekiel 38
2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,
3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords: 5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet: 6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

Peria is in the East
Ethiopia is in the South,
Libya is in the West.
Gog /magog is in the North.

So this corresponds to the Revelation 20:
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[Adstar]

Here is a write up i did some time ago about Ezekiel 38/39 and how it relates to Revealtion 20

Revelation 20

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are.



Now Gog Magog is mentioned once in the OT in Ezekiel 38 and again in the Revelation 20. In revelation 20 this great battle and slaughter happens After the 1000 year reign of the Messiah Jesus. But the naming of Gog Magog is not the only interesting fact that leads me to believe that Ezekiel 38 happens at the end of the 1000 years. Lets read:



Ezekiel 38

1 Now the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 2 “Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, and prophesy against him, 3 and say, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Behold, I am against you, O Gog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal. 4 I will turn you around, put hooks into your jaws, and lead you out, with all your army, horses, and horsemen, all splendidly clothed, a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords. 5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya are with them, all of them with shield and helmet; 6 Gomer and all its troops; the house of Togarmah from the far north and all its troops—many people are with you.



Stop there. Now it mentions the troops from Persia Ethiopia and Libya. Why does the prophecy not mention the Egyptians? Where are they Syrians? or Sinar/Iraq? Where are all these peoples? Are the Libyans going to march through Egypt to attack Israel while the whole Egyptian nation sits quietly as the tanks roll by? Are the Iraqi's going to be doing the same when the Persians head west to Israel? And likewise is Syria and Lebanon going to take no part with the armies of the north? What has happened to these nations like Egypt and Syria? Could it be at the time of this war that these nations no longer exist? that they where destroyed 1000 years before and their lands where incorporated into the Messianic Kingdom? Take the time now to read Ezekiel 32 starting from verse 11 to the end.



God promised to the descendants of Abraham a promised land that was far bigger than the one that He established for them in the time of Moses. lets read about it.



Genesis 15

17 And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces. 18 On the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying:

“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates



So God has promised the descendants of Abraham will have a Land that includes the Nile and the Euphrates. Now Persia borders the land of the Euphrates to the east and Libya borders the land of the Nile to the west and Ethiopia borders the land of the Nile to the south. So at the time of Ezekiel the nations of Libya Ethiopia and Persia will border the greater Messianic Kingdom of the Messiah Jesus.



So the reason that the nations like Egypt and Syria are not mentioned in Ezekiel 38 is because they will have long been destroyed 1000 years before the battle detailed in Ezekiel 38.



Now let us continue to read Ezekiel 38:



7 “Prepare yourself and be ready, you and all your companies that are gathered about you; and be a guard for them. 8 After many days you will be visited. In the latter years you will come into the land of those brought back from the sword and gathered from many people on the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate; they were brought out of the nations, and now all of them dwell safely.



Now stop."visited". Who is going to visit them in the latter years? lets read Revelation 20 again:



Revelation 20

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them



Also note how Ezekiel describes the condition of safety of the people dwelling in Israel: "now all of them dwell safely." Does that describe the state of affairs of Israel today?? No not in the slightest. But to make the distinction more clear read on for the next 2 verses that more clearly describe the idyllic situation that will prevail in Israel at this time:



Ezekiel38

9 You will ascend, coming like a storm, covering the land like a cloud, you and all your troops and many peoples with you.”

10 ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “On that day it shall come to pass that thoughts will arise in your mind, and you will make an evil plan: 11 You will say, ‘I will go up against a land of unwalled villages; I will go to a peaceful people, who dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates’



With no walls? no bars nor gates? Look at Israel today look at the walls, the barbed wire, the compounds, the bars, the perilous state of security. Do the people of Israel dwell in peace and safety? Or in a state of siege and under threat of terror?



What kind of society needs no walls no bars or even gates? Israel today or Israel during the Reign of The Messiah Jesus? Come to think of it does any society today live in peace and safety with no need for security walls or bars or gates?



Ezekiel 38

12 to take plunder and to take booty, to stretch out your hand against the waste places that are again inhabited, and against a people gathered from the nations, who have acquired livestock and goods, who dwell in the midst of the land. 13 Sheba, Dedan, the merchants of Tarshish, and all their young lions will say to you, ‘Have you come to take plunder? Have you gathered your army to take booty, to carry away silver and gold, to take away livestock and goods, to take great plunder?’”’



During the 1000 year rule of the Messiah Jesus, we are told that many of the nations will give up their precious things and make great offering of the wealth of the nations to the Messianic kingdom. Will it be all this wealth that they will be seeking to plunder, great plunder?

 

[Sinthesis]

the Egyptian as we know after exodus still existed until it was conquered by alexander the great.. archeology has confirmed that the descendents of Assyria and Chaldea are still around. that is what meant. though Egypt had been conquered again under Babylon. but still pharaohs were around. the dynasty of pharaoh that was killed in the events of exodus didn't live on but another took his place.

So can we agree that not every 'Egypt' throughout history is to be considered equally as the object of prophecy whenever the word 'Egypt' is used in the bible?

Isa 19:25 - Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt mypeople, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

 

[jasonc]

So can we agree that not every 'Egypt' throughout history is to be considered equally as the object of prophecy whenever the word 'Egypt' is used in the bible?

Isa 19:25 - Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt mypeople, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

you can, I wonder if Egypt in that prophecy are the copts of today or some Egyptian-jewish converts.

 

[for_his_glory]

People need to understand that there are two great battles. These two battles are separated by the 1000 year kingdom of Jesus. The battle of Armageddon happens at the return of the Lord Jesus. The second battle happens at the end of the 1000 years and it happens just before the final judgement. The battle prophecised in Ezekiel 38 & 39 happens just before the final judgement. If you read Revelation 19 you will see the return of Jesus and continuing on in Revelation 20 you will read about the 1000 year reign of the Messiah Jesus and at the end of Revelation 20 you will see the battle of Ezekiel 38&39 detailed.

The war revealed in Daniel chapter 11 between the evil King of the North and the evil king of the South will happen before the battle of Armageddon before the return of Jesus. This war is a part of the ""wars and talk of wars""

There will be two great battles that will take place in the end of days as we the saints of God will still be here while they are taking place as Jesus said when you see the abomination of desolation (Papal Rome taking it’s seat in Jerusalem once again) stand in the Holy place, which is a literal place and a Spiritual place as Gods seal is upon those who are Spiritually born-again, John 3:3-6, Romans 10:9,10, and we need not fear what is about to take place even if we are persecuted to death for not bowing down to the new world order of a political, economic and religious system ran by the son of perdition, Matthew 10:28. You have to cross reference Zechariah 14; Revelation 13:11-18; and Revelation 20 to understand the prophecy given in Zechariah 14 about the second coming of Christ and what has to take place before and after his return that in a twinkling of an eye we will be with the Lord forever. Please read all these chapters as it is imperative for Spiritual understanding.
(Matthew 24:15; Rev 20:7-10)

The first battle of the end of days starts in Revelation chapter 20 and will be that of Satan’s control of Jerusalem through Papal Rome taking captive those that are of God and forcing them to bow down to their thoughts of an imaginative worship to their pagan gods and rituals and those that are in Christ will be forced to denounce Christ and if they refuse then they will die a martyrs death. This is the mark of the beast with Papal Rome being the beast and the mark of the beast is the actions of their hands and the thoughts of their minds. God sends an angel to bind up Satan and throw him into the Abyss right after Papal Rome’s abomination of desolation in Jerusalem so he can no longer deceive the nations. Remember that 1000 years is as a day with the Lord in his timing.
(Rev 13:11-18)

The second and last battle of the end of days will be the gathering of the bride of Christ (those who have repented) as she has made herself ready as she endured until the end of days, both dead and alive and will be taken in the air to meet Jesus while the angel chains Satan and throws him into the Abyss for a time. Jesus then comes down to earth to stand on the Mt. Of Olives with his army (we the saints) to fight the final battle as he cast the beast and the false prophet into the lake of fire and makes an end to the abominations of Papal Rome. Jesus will then let Satan loose from the Abyss and with Satan’s army will rage war on all the nations but will be consumed by the fire of heaven and will be cast into the lake of fire and sulphur with his army for eternity. After this God will bring everyone into his throne of judgment and those not found in the Lambs book of Life will be cast also into the lake of fire and sulphur with the beast, false prophet, Satan and all his army thus ushering in the new heaven and the new Jerusalem that we will be with the Lord forever.
(Rev 20:5,6; 9:20,21; 20:15)

 

[Adstar]

The first battle of the end of days starts in Revelation chapter 20 and will be that of Satan’s control of Jerusalem through Papal Rome taking captive those that are of God and forcing them to bow down to their thoughts of an imaginative worship to their pagan gods and rituals and those that are in Christ will be forced to denounce Christ and if they refuse then they will die a martyrs death. This is the mark of the beast with Papal Rome being the beast and the mark of the beast is the actions of their hands and the thoughts of their minds. God sends an angel to bind up Satan and throw him into the Abyss right after Papal Rome’s abomination of desolation in Jerusalem so he can no longer deceive the nations. Remember that 1000 years is as a day with the Lord in his timing.
(Rev 13:11-18)

The battle of Armageddon and the return of Jesus is detailed in Revelation chapter 19 before the start of chapter 20. Chapter 20 reveals the first resurrection and those who take part in it. This is the rapture/first resurrection. The only battle revealed in Chapter 20 is the battle that happens 1000 years after the battle of Armageddon when satan shall be released from the bottomless pit for a short time. The Battle in Revelation 20 is the very last battle. And there is only one battle mentioned in Revelation 20.