Quality church

[joyinhim]

I have been a Christian for 7 years. I have attended many denominations, but I never found any quality churches. Right now I am thinking about Seventh day Adventist. They are the best one so far. I am so disillusioned about most churches because they have such a low standard of Christianity. I hope I am not offending too many people. After all Jesus is expecting a lot from His followers.

There doesn't seem to be many (if there are at all) churches that are wholeheartedly seeking God's glory. :smt102

What do you think about my observations?

 

[kwag_myers]

I think that you are correct in your observation. And I doubt that you will find what you are looking for in any particular denomination. The problem is that it is the Holy Spirit who does the work in us that brings us into obediance to God's Word. There's all kinds of scripture about doing it in your own strength, but most Christians still insist on walking out their salvation without the Holy Spirit's influence.

There are churches out there that are not compromising the Word, but they're hard to find. And my guess is that when you do find one, it will be a small church, probably less than 150 members. Everyone is going to those mega churches to have their ears tickled. No crucifying the flesh there.

I don't know much about the Seventh Day Adventist, but I don't think that they are real big on the Holy Spirit.

 

[joyinhim]

I think that you are correct in your observation. And I doubt that you will find what you are looking for in any particular denomination. The problem is that it is the Holy Spirit who does the work in us that brings us into obediance to God's Word. There's all kinds of scripture about doing it in your own strength, but most Christians still insist on walking out their salvation without the Holy Spirit's influence.

There are churches out there that are not compromising the Word, but they're hard to find. And my guess is that when you do find one, it will be a small church, probably less than 150 members. Everyone is going to those mega churches to have their ears tickled. No crucifying the flesh there.

I don't know much about the Seventh Day Adventist, but I don't think that they are real big on the Holy Spirit.

I think I know what you mean by Holy Spirit. I have been to tongue speaking churches and they use this term. I have checked Seventh day Adventist and they are producing a lot of fruit. We know by our fruit if we are true followers or not. I believe SDA is the best denomination comparing others. :angel:

 

[SputnikBoy]

I think that you are correct in your observation. And I doubt that you will find what you are looking for in any particular denomination. The problem is that it is the Holy Spirit who does the work in us that brings us into obediance to God's Word. There's all kinds of scripture about doing it in your own strength, but most Christians still insist on walking out their salvation without the Holy Spirit's influence.

There are churches out there that are not compromising the Word, but they're hard to find. And my guess is that when you do find one, it will be a small church, probably less than 150 members. Everyone is going to those mega churches to have their ears tickled. No crucifying the flesh there.

I don't know much about the Seventh Day Adventist, but I don't think that they are real big on the Holy Spirit.

No offense, kwag, I mean ...REALLY no offense, but I sometimes think you might place too much emphasis on the TANGIBLE signs of the Holy Spirit. The HS can and possibly should be manifested in one's life in a relatively simplistic way. I DO believe that the HS is working within the SDA Church more than you probably realize. This is not a criticism to you, kwag, but merely me making a pertinent point.

I think I know what you mean by Holy Spirit. I have been to tongue speaking churches and they use this term.

And, unfortunately, this is why so many 'Holy Spirit practitioners' come unstuck. I don't know if kwag is a 'tongue-speaker'.

I have checked Seventh day Adventist and they are producing a lot of fruit. We know by our fruit if we are true followers or not. I believe SDA is the best denomination comparing others. :angel:

I'm pleased to hear that you feel the SDA Church is producing a lot of fruit, joyinhim. While it's probably true that NO Christian denomination has the monopoly on scriptural truths, I DO believe that the SDA Church has done much 'homework' in all areas of Bible study and they should be commended for having done so. They receive more than their share of criticism from other Christian denominations but that's mainly due to the Sabbath/Sunday issue. If it were possible for every Christian to read their Bible from start to finish, oblivious to the influence of mainstream Christian Sunday tradition OR SDA teaching about the Sabbath, EVERY Christian would be keeping the 7th-day Sabbath. Sunday wouldn't even figure in the equasion. And they would get this SOLELY from the Bible. True!

 

[kwag_myers]

I'm not sure who I am quoting here because it's hard to follow.

No offense, kwag, I mean ...REALLY no offense, but I sometimes think you might place too much emphasis on the TANGIBLE signs of the Holy Spirit. The HS can and possibly should be manifested in one's life in a relatively simplistic way. I DO believe that the HS is working within the SDA Church more than you probably realize. This is not a criticism to you, kwag, but merely me making a pertinent point.

I suspect that this person has never read the Bible. Even in the Old Testament we see tangible signs of people being filled with the Holy Spirit. Here are some examples:

Exodus 35:31
1 Samuel 10:10-11

As for the New Testament, Acts 2:4. In fact, the entire book of Acts is filled with tangible signs of the Holy Spirit.

Why would this person attempt to down-play the physical signs of the Holy Spirit? Because, I suspect, they lack this in their own lives and instead of seeking God as to why, they have chosen to justify themselves (illustrated by the Pharisees in the Gospels). This is a good example of the proud verses the humble. A humble Christian would say, "Lord, why am I not seeing the same signs and wonders that are spoken of in Your Word?" You need to be humble to pray this prayer, because the cause is almost always sin.

And, unfortunately, this is why so many 'Holy Spirit practitioners' come unstuck. I don't know if kwag is a 'tongue-speaker'.
Not sure what you mean by "unstuck". If you mean unstuck as in unstuck doing the same old thing Sunday after Sunday, year after year, generation after generation, then this statement is correct. When you are led by the Holy Spirit, you are in a state of constant change (1 Corinthians 3:18).

Yes, I speak in tongues as the Holy Spirit gives me utterance. This is in keeping with Acts 2:4. What is that to you?

The rest of the post is spillage from another thread where there is an attempt to put all Christians under legalism and rob us of the freedom that we have in Christ.

 

[joyinhim]

I'm not sure who I am quoting here because it's hard to follow.

No offense, kwag, I mean ...REALLY no offense, but I sometimes think you might place too much emphasis on the TANGIBLE signs of the Holy Spirit. The HS can and possibly should be manifested in one's life in a relatively simplistic way. I DO believe that the HS is working within the SDA Church more than you probably realize. This is not a criticism to you, kwag, but merely me making a pertinent point.

I suspect that this person has never read the Bible. Even in the Old Testament we see tangible signs of people being filled with the Holy Spirit. Here are some examples:

Exodus 35:31
1 Samuel 10:10-11

As for the New Testament, Acts 2:4. In fact, the entire book of Acts is filled with tangible signs of the Holy Spirit.

Why would this person attempt to down-play the physical signs of the Holy Spirit? Because, I suspect, they lack this in their own lives and instead of seeking God as to why, they have chosen to justify themselves (illustrated by the Pharisees in the Gospels). This is a good example of the proud verses the humble. A humble Christian would say, "Lord, why am I not seeing the same signs and wonders that are spoken of in Your Word?" You need to be humble to pray this prayer, because the cause is almost always sin.

[quote:322bc]
And, unfortunately, this is why so many 'Holy Spirit practitioners' come unstuck. I don't know if kwag is a 'tongue-speaker'.
Not sure what you mean by "unstuck". If you mean unstuck as in unstuck doing the same old thing Sunday after Sunday, year after year, generation after generation, then this statement is correct. When you are led by the Holy Spirit, you are in a state of constant change (1 Corinthians 3:18).

Yes, I speak in tongues as the Holy Spirit gives me utterance. This is in keeping with Acts 2:4. What is that to you?

The rest of the post is spillage from another thread where there is an attempt to put all Christians under legalism and rob us of the freedom that we have in Christ.

[/quote:322bc]

Quag, I have attended two tongue speaking churches. I am a serious Christian so I don't just take people's word. I investigate their fruit because I do not want to waste my servanthood for Him.

I have been watching Christians all around me. Most of the church goers are not showing much of the fruit like I posted in OP.

Worst kind is the tongue speaking church goers. It seems that they are using the tongue speaking as disguise of high spirituality. It would work if their daily life is filled with godly and holy living.

I am sorry if it sound critical or harsh. But this is my honest observation..

 

[Free]

Personally, I would never attend and SDA church or recommend that anyone do so.

 

[joyinhim]

Personally, I would never attend and SDA church or recommend that anyone do so.

I am sorry you feel this way. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I am not SDA member but they are the best denomination in over all. They are excelling in every which way. The only thing I don't agree is that they are not anti-'military and I am..

 

[SputnikBoy]

Personally, I would never attend and SDA church or recommend that anyone do so.

Why not, Free ...is Saturday inconvenient for you? The day itself MUST be the reason since Jesus Christ and Him only is the focal point of the Adventist Church. As long as you make a statement such as the one you made you might need to back it up with a legitimate reason.

I may not have known Jesus had it not been for the dedicated SDA pastor who did Bible study with me back in early 1988. He sure had his work cut out with me since I had little interest in the Bible. As far as I was concerned, it was a book for 'the boring' and 'the gullible'. And as for Saturday being the Sabbath - he had to be kidding! It's just a DAY for heavens sake ...who cares? Well, maybe, just maybe, God cares. I've always been grateful to Pastor Jack for sharing the good news of Jesus with me.

I've learned since then that it isn't the church (denomination) that we need to be wary of but the message given by the church. I don't doubt that there are sincere Christians in EVERY church. There are, however, any number of messages that are at best 'questionable' being presented these days by some evangelical churches. In many churches, the Holy Spirit (and the supposed gifts that accompany a claimed 'infilling') has BECOME the religion. In fact, without the extra 'tangible frills' many of these churches would fold into a heap and die. Jesus and faith in Him alone is not enough it would seem.

After my 17 years as a Christian I become immediately suspicious when one of the first things another Christian wants to bring up in conversation is, "Are you filled with the Holy Spirit?" That means, of course, "Do you speak in tongues?" And 'tongues' is the extent of 'HS infilling' to most of them. The same is true with a number of people on this forum ...the emphasis is on the (gifts of the) Holy Spirit, NOT Jesus ...check it out. I've found too often, sadly, that the walk of supposed 'Spirit-filled' Christians doesn't necessarily match their talk.

The SDA message is, as mentioned, the 'no frills' gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[SputnikBoy]

I'm not sure who I am quoting here because it's hard to follow.

It's me, kwag ...Sputnik! :smt039

No offense, kwag, I mean ...REALLY no offense, but I sometimes think you might place too much emphasis on the TANGIBLE signs of the Holy Spirit. The HS can and possibly should be manifested in one's life in a relatively simplistic way. I DO believe that the HS is working within the SDA Church more than you probably realize. This is not a criticism to you, kwag, but merely me making a pertinent point.

I suspect that this person has never read the Bible.

Now THAT hurt, kwag. :smt022

Even in the Old Testament we see tangible signs of people being filled with the Holy Spirit. Here are some examples:

Exodus 35:31
1 Samuel 10:10-11

Is there anyone in your church who is into the gifts of the HS as given in these texts, kwag? Any goldsmiths, silversmiths, bronzesmiths (?) who are led to the art of making crafts by the Holy Spirit? Does anyone even prophesy?

As for the New Testament, Acts 2:4. In fact, the entire book of Acts is filled with tangible signs of the Holy Spirit.

Ah yes ...speaking in tongues. Does anyone today even care about the other MORE IMPORTANT gifts that are mentioned in the NT? Of course not. The other gifts don't display one's 'infilling of the HS' NEARLY as publicly as do 'tongues' ...isn't that right, kwag?

Why would this person attempt to down-play the physical signs of the Holy Spirit?

Because 'this person' doesn't believe in the ONE only supposed gift of the HS that is manifested in many of today's Pentecostal churches. Be honest, kwag, you are not referring to ANY of the gifts of the HS other than 'tongues' ...that's right, isn't it? When anyone mentions the term 'physical signs of the Holy Spirit' they are referring to 'speaking in tongues' and nothing else. And, while this thread is not about 'tongues' I'm addressing a very deceitful message of some churches that is becoming more and more widely spread.

Because, I suspect, they lack this in their own lives

Lack what ...the ability to speak 'in tongues'? Come on, kwag, don't be so vague. What portion of the Holy Spirit am I (in your view) lacking?

and instead of seeking God as to why, they have chosen to justify themselves (illustrated by the Pharisees in the Gospels). This is a good example of the proud verses the humble. A humble Christian would say, "Lord, why am I not seeing the same signs and wonders that are spoken of in Your Word?"

Um ...speaking 'in tongues' do you mean?

You need to be humble to pray this prayer, because the cause is almost always sin.

I certainly need to be humble, I'll grant you that. But how do you know that I'm not humble, kwag ...do you know me personally? I don't speak 'in tongues', incidentally. Does this indicate a lack of 'Spirit-infilling' to you? Please ...be honest with me.
[quote:28330]

[quote:28330]And, unfortunately, this is why so many 'Holy Spirit practitioners' come unstuck. I don't know if kwag is a 'tongue-speaker'.

Not sure what you mean by "unstuck".

Well, as mentioned previously, 'Holy Spirit practitioners' means only one thing these days. It means speaking 'in tongues'. And, since this present-day practice is absolutely and unequivocally scripturally false, then this is where they come unstuck.

If you mean unstuck as in unstuck doing the same old thing Sunday after Sunday, year after year, generation after generation, then this statement is correct. When you are led by the Holy Spirit, you are in a state of constant change (1 Corinthians 3:18).

Don't be so vague, kwag. Spoon-feed me, please ...give me some examples of how this constant change manifests itself in one's life. Is it still 'tongue-speaking' we're referring to here or something else? Whatever it is, I seem to not have it according to you.

Yes, I speak in tongues as the Holy Spirit gives me utterance. This is in keeping with Acts 2:4. What is that to you?

Oh, on the defensive, eh? Well, what it is to me is the fact that you keep on bringing up the 'lack' of HS infilling in relation to me. Other than speaking 'in tongues' what does the HS do for you and how SHOULD the HS be working in my life?

The rest of the post is spillage from another thread where there is an attempt to put all Christians under legalism and rob us of the freedom that we have in Christ.

That's just typical rhetoric, kwag, from someone who no doubt is as passionate about Sunday as an SDA might be perceived to be passionate about Saturday. But, let me get this right ...if I keep Saturday as my Sabbath, I'm being legalistic. If you keep Sunday as your Sabbath, you're NOT being legalistic ...is that what you're saying?[/quote:28330][/quote:28330]

 

[Free]

Personally, I would never attend and SDA church or recommend that anyone do so.

I am sorry you feel this way. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I am not SDA member but they are the best denomination in over all. They are excelling in every which way. The only thing I don't agree is that they are not anti-'military and I am..

Well, I obviously do not think they are the best denomination nor that they excel in every way. They have their serious problems just like every other denomination. Certainly some are better than others, but that would not include the SDA.

Also, I don't think that you will find any anti-military denomination, other than Hutterite or Amish, since it isn't really a biblical position.

 

[joyinhim]

Personally, I would never attend and SDA church or recommend that anyone do so.

I am sorry you feel this way. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I am not SDA member but they are the best denomination in over all. They are excelling in every which way. The only thing I don't agree is that they are not anti-'military and I am..

Well, I obviously do not think they are the best denomination nor that they excel in every way. They have their serious problems just like every other denomination. Certainly some are better than others, but that would not include the SDA.

Also, I don't think that you will find any anti-military denomination, other than Hutterite or Amish, since it isn't really a biblical position.

Again we are all entitled our own opinions. I am just happy that SDA is showing a lot of fruit of crhistianity.

I pray that you get rid of your hostility toward SDA church.