Christian Forums

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Christian Forum aspires to be an online community where Christians can come together in fellowship with the purpose to encourage, inspire and build up our faith in Christ Jesus. John 13:34-35
  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

Questioning Jesus’ Existence

Pegasus

Member
From
Texas
Gender
Male
Messages
1,215
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
From Breakpoint by John Stonestreet

Excerpt:

Every year around March and December, this and other news outlets exhume the long-dead thesis that the New Testament is based on a mythological figure, not a Man who really lived, died, and rose from the grave two-thousand years ago. This year, CNN even republished an article from 2012 at CNN.com. In the piece, entitled, “Decoding Jesus: Separating Man from Myth,” John Blake suggests that Christ’s historical existence is an open question. CNN featured it at the top of their homepage as part of the push for their new series, “Finding Jesus: Faith, Fact, Forgery.”

Blake quotes the likes of Timothy Freke, author of “Jesus Mysteries” and former Baptist pastor Robert Price, author of “Deconstructing Jesus,” who both claim that the Gospels are forgeries or misunderstood allegories, and that the story of Jesus was copied from legends about pagan deities.

“In the age of the Internet and self-publishing,” writes Blake, “these arguments have gained enough traction that some of the world’s leading New Testament scholars feel compelled to publicly take them on.”

Now let me be clear: This is the very definition of fake news: No credible historian believes Jesus is a myth. Even among skeptics of religion, that theory has been abandoned. None other than Bart Ehrman, the agnostic biblical scholar and fierce critic of the New Testament, calls Jesus-deniers Internet conspiracy theorists trying to sell books, and compares them to Holocaust-deniers.

Dominic Crossan, another scholar who would never pass for an evangelical apologist, says he’s “certain” that Christ existed, and chalks up alternative theories to disdain for the Prince of Peace. Keep in mind, neither Ehrman or Crosson would affirm anything historically Christian, such as that Jesus was not just a man but God—that He performed miracles, died for the sins of the world, and rose from the dead for our justification. But if anything, this fact makes their agreement on His existence even more powerful, not less.

Remainder of the article here:

http://breakpoint.org/2017/03/questioning-jesus-existence/


Posters note: Yes it is that time of year, and we as Christians should be always be ready to defend the faith.

1 Peter 3:

“And do not be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled. 15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; 16 having a good conscience, that when they defame you as evildoers, those who revile your good conduct in Christ may be ashamed. 17 For it is better, if it is the will of God, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.
 

By Grace

Member
Christian
Yes
Messages
1,526
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
I just heard that on my local Christian radio station!

In an article years before his death, Charles Colson used the cave-in of John Dean (of Watergate infamy) to demonstrate the fact that "no one dies willingly to defend a lie"

If you like this, you may also like to search what Colson stated as an example to defend the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

BTW today is "National Pi Day" (3.14) Some pizza shops are offering discounts on pizzas as a celebration.
Of course that has nothing to do with the OP, but if I made you hungry, then I succeeded in my objective! :hysterical
 

Elisha

Member
Messages
57
Joined
Mar 8, 2017
Even the though the existence of Jesus is beyond dispute, just claiming he didn't exist sows the seeds of doubt, regardless of the evidence.
 

wondering

Supporter
From
Italy
Gender
Female
Messages
18,641
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
I just heard that on my local Christian radio station!

In an article years before his death, Charles Colson used the cave-in of John Dean (of Watergate infamy) to demonstrate the fact that "no one dies willingly to defend a lie"

If you like this, you may also like to search what Colson stated as an example to defend the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

BTW today is "National Pi Day" (3.14) Some pizza shops are offering discounts on pizzas as a celebration.
Of course that has nothing to do with the OP, but if I made you hungry, then I succeeded in my objective! :hysterical
Hi By Grace

Please don't make me search!
Just quick, in ten words or less, what is Colson's defense for the resurrection?
Could it be something new? ( Which I doubt )
 

wondering

Supporter
From
Italy
Gender
Female
Messages
18,641
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Hi By Grace

Please don't make me search!
Just quick, in ten words or less, what is Colson's defense for the resurrection?
Could it be something new? ( Which I doubt )
Oops.
Guess it has to do with the John Dean quote.
If so, of course!
 

Jim Parker

Member
From
People's Socialist Republik de Norte KKKalipornia
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Messages
11,259
Joined
Apr 17, 2015
Blake quotes the likes of Timothy Freke, author of “Jesus Mysteries” and former Baptist pastor Robert Price, author of “Deconstructing Jesus,” who both claim that the Gospels are forgeries or misunderstood allegories, and that the story of Jesus was copied from legends about pagan deities.
THis kind of rubbish sells books, fills seminars, and fills empty air for CNN and other similar entertainment networks targeting people who don't know any better.

The issue is not that they continue to publish such rot decade after decade and century after century.

The issue is why is there an audience to listen to or watch or read this junk? Why hasn't the CHURCH been so effective in preaching AND LIVING the Gospel that no one in their right mind would give such nonsense 5 seconds of their time?

There will always be detractors, liars, frauds, and scoundrels who make a living peddling that garbage.

The answer is not to try to silence them.

The answer is to preach the gospel at all times and, if necessary, to use words.

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.
(Mat 5:16)
 

wondering

Supporter
From
Italy
Gender
Female
Messages
18,641
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
THis kind of rubbish sells books, fills seminars, and fills empty air for CNN and other similar entertainment networks targeting people who don't know any better.

The issue is not that they continue to publish such rot decade after decade and century after century.

The issue is why is there an audience to listen to or watch or read this junk? Why hasn't the CHURCH been so effective in preaching AND LIVING the Gospel that no one in their right mind would give such nonsense 5 seconds of their time?

There will always be detractors, liars, frauds, and scoundrels who make a living peddling that garbage.

The answer is not to try to silence them.

The answer is to preach the gospel at all times and, if necessary, to use words.

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.
(Mat 5:16)
:clap
 

By Grace

Member
Christian
Yes
Messages
1,526
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Oops.
Guess it has to do with the John Dean quote.
If so, of course!
John Dean caved like the proverbial deck of cards "house" when pressured by federal investigators about the Watergate break in in 1972, and sang like a canary (Yeah, I like metaphors). So the point Colson made was that "No man will die for a lie, but men will die for the truth.".

That there were over 500 identified witnesses to the resurrection, and the fact that every one of the Apostles died at the hands of others, because they did not recant demonstrates the truth of the resurrection. Thirty-six words, not 10
 

wondering

Supporter
From
Italy
Gender
Female
Messages
18,641
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
John Dean caved like the proverbial deck of cards "house" when pressured by federal investigators about the Watergate break in in 1972, and sang like a canary (Yeah, I like metaphors). So the point Colson made was that "No man will die for a lie, but men will die for the truth.".

That there were over 500 identified witnesses to the resurrection, and the fact that every one of the Apostles died at the hands of others, because they did not recant demonstrates the truth of the resurrection. Thirty-six words, not 10
Yes. This is what I understood and, of course, I agree.
Why would any man die for a lie? Maybe one could, but not 12 and many others.

I'm sorry, I don't understand the 36 words, not 10...

BTW, I have parakeets.
Do they count?
Yes. My husband is always complaining about the singing...
 

Jim Parker

Member
From
People's Socialist Republik de Norte KKKalipornia
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Messages
11,259
Joined
Apr 17, 2015
One could die for a lie? Who? Give me one example.
Millions have died for the lie that Communism is the way to create an atheist, secular utopia on earth with peace and brotherhood and plenty for all mankind.
Millions died for the lie that Japan's empire was about "Asia for Asians" rather than just imperialist expansion and the subjection of Asia under Japanese rule.
Millions died for the lie that Hitler was "purifying" Europe by eliminating "life unworthy of life."
Millions have been murdered by Planned Parenthood for the lie that it is better to murder your baby than to force her to live in poverty.
Millions of Catholics and Protestants died in the 100 years of the wars of the Reformation because the princes of Europe pretended they were fighting to wipe out heresy rather than to secure their political power.

iakov the fool
 

wondering

Supporter
From
Italy
Gender
Female
Messages
18,641
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
One could die for a lie? Who? Give me one example.
Any one person might be willing to die for something he believes in, but which is a lie.

But Jim Parker has given you examples of millions of deaths ---
So I would say that covers it all.
 

Free

Member
From
AB, Canada
Gender
Male
Messages
13,677
Joined
Apr 2, 2003
You guys seem to be talking about two very different things.

Unless I am mistaken, when Elisha asked "One could die for a lie? Who? Give me one example," he is referring to a person willing to die for something they know is a lie. Which is, I believe, Colson's point.

That is very different from the examples given where people died at the hands of corrupt leaders, through no fault of their own. It is also very different from those willing to die for what they believe is the truth, even if it actually is a lie.

The whole reason for the argument that no one would die for a lie, is that there are those who reject Jesus's resurrection, saying it was all faked in some way by the disciples. But almost all the disciples were killed for their belief that Jesus actually did rise from the dead, something which they wouldn't have done if it had all been a lie.
 

Jim Parker

Member
From
People's Socialist Republik de Norte KKKalipornia
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Messages
11,259
Joined
Apr 17, 2015
Unless I am mistaken, when Elisha asked "One could die for a lie? Who? Give me one example," he is referring to a person willing to die for something they know is a lie. Which is, I believe, Colson's point.
Did you mean "Dominic Crossan"?
I assumed Elisha meant who would die for a lie. (period)
But your question makes sense. Who would be willing to die for s bunch of malarkey he made up as a scam?
Best ask Eli.
 

JAG ..

Member
Christian
Yes
Messages
448
Joined
Apr 20, 2015
[Bart D.] Ehrman

In Misquoting Jesus Ehrman recounts becoming a born-again, fundamentalist Christian
as a teenager. He recounts being certain in his youthful enthusiasm that God had inspired
the wording of the Bible and protected its texts from all error.
His desire to understand the
original words of the Bible led him to the study of ancient languages and also textual criticism.
During his graduate studies, however, he became convinced that there are contradictions and
discrepancies in the biblical manuscripts that could not be harmonized or reconciled. He
remained a liberal Christian for 15 years but later became an agnostic atheist after struggling
with the philosophical problems of evil and suffering [1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_D._Ehrman


Miscellaneous Points:

♦ . . . "many antichrists have arisen . . They went out from us, but they didn’t belong to us;
for if they had belonged to us, they would have continued with us. But they left, that they
might be revealed that none of them belong to us." I John chapter 2 [Its a good thing for
Christendom that Ehrman flies his true flag.]

♦ Ehrman says de facto, "I used to be one of you before I saw the truth and became
an agnostic atheist."
However this is a sword that "cuts both ways." Legion is the number of Christians
worldwide/historywide that can truthfully say, "I used to be one of you agnostic
atheists before I saw the truth and became a Christian."

♦ "All the Father gives me will come to me" said the Lord Jesus and this reality will take
place regardless of what Bart D. Ehrman thinks, says, or does. Bart D. Ehrman, long term,
and in the Grand Scheme Of Things, is irrelevant.

♦ Great Opening Post.
 
Last edited:

By Grace

Member
Christian
Yes
Messages
1,526
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Yes. This is what I understood and, of course, I agree.
Why would any man die for a lie? Maybe one could, but not 12 and many others.

I'm sorry, I don't understand the 36 words, not 10...

BTW, I have parakeets.
Do they count?
Yes. My husband is always complaining about the singing...

You asked for 10 words or less. (So I took it literally)
BTW do you post on another forum using a user name beginning with e?
Your posts seem familiar in wording.
 
Top