Questions about Hell

[Elijah674]

I won't speak for Free-but your answer to him is much too simplistic and inaccurate.

This is from Vines:
thanatos, "death" is used in scripture of:
(b)the separation of man from God; Adam died on the day he disobeyed God, Gen. 2:17, and hence all mankind are born in the same spiritual condition, from which, however, those who believe in Christ are delivered. "Death" is the opposite of life; it never denotes non-existence. As spiritual life is "conscious existence in communion with God", so spiritual death is "conscious existence in separation away from God". Vines Expository Dictionary pg. 149

Any thoughts? Westtexas

Yeah, from the Jer. 17:5 'large' group, one can find about anything ones desires! Yet, God said what?? then that other dude has most all believing him. Gen. 3:4 That includes ALL of these in Rev. 17:1-5. (at least they are 'PROPHESIED' the abomination of the earth ones, because they are far, far off from the whole truth.

--Elijah

 

[JJsaint]

I won't speak for Free-but your answer to him is much too simplistic and inaccurate.

This is from Vines:
thanatos, "death" is used in scripture of:
(b)the separation of man from God; Adam died on the day he disobeyed God, Gen. 2:17, and hence all mankind are born in the same spiritual condition, from which, however, those who believe in Christ are delivered. "Death" is the opposite of life; it never denotes non-existence. As spiritual life is "conscious existence in communion with God", so spiritual death is "conscious existence in separation away from God". Vines Expository Dictionary pg. 149

Any thoughts? Westtexas

So people don't die?

Go to the local cemetery and see which ones are not dead....

 

[JJsaint]

Not really. It doesn't answer what was asked. "Death" must be defined first and posting passages in which the word "death" appears does give us a complete definition of death and all it's nuances.

Why don't you try to define death?

 

[westtexas]

So people don't die?

Go to the local cemetery and see which ones are not dead....

Absolutely they do-everyone has a physical death. However, your avoiding the issue as you have done with everyone you have debated with so far. There is much more to death than a "nice long nap" as you would have everyone believe. You're not going to answer Free's question-are you.

Westtexas

 

[elijah23]

I have always assumed hell exists and it was in the bible from genesis to revelation.

I read somewhere today that in the old testament hell as the concept we know is not mentioned. The original Hebrew word which is where the word hell is inserted often is Sheol. It seems correct translation noways in English is actually death or grave instead of a place of torment and fire.

Is it true the KJV translators translated the meaning wrong in the OT?

I have never considered it before as I have never read it and wondered if any theologian type people know of this and how the notion of hell came to be?
I am sure I read somewhere in the NT about eternal torment.

I bet this subject has come up before a few times.

I believe hell to be the the natural consequences of sin. Therefore, it is helpful to stop sinning. It makes life a lot nicer. It keeps us out of a lot of trouble.

 

[Elijah674]

Absolutely they do-everyone has a physical death. However, your avoiding the issue as you have done with everyone you have debated with so far. There is much more to death than a "nice long nap" as you would have everyone believe. You're not going to answer Free's question-are you.

Westtexas

I am not this Tex postor;). But, let me ask you and all of the rest before he (or 'i') venture on the question of being D-E-A-D.

First, I for one completely BELIEVE GOD'S WORD. So is satan telling the truth in your teaching as seen in Gen. 3:3 & God not doing so? This needs to be addressed before one can go deeper into Immortality! (1 Tim. 1:17 + 1 Tim. 6:16 finds ONLY GOD HAVING IMMORTALITY!) There just is NO TWO TRUTHS seen there.

--Elijah

 

[Free]

Why don't you try to define death?

I can't help but notice how often in other threads you referred to Strong's, albeit incorrectly in order to get the definition you preferred, yet the one time you should be referring to Strong's, you don't.

It is a simple request. All this talk of death and verses of death as though they prove one's point, yet you have not defined "death".

 

[JJsaint]

I can't help but notice how often in other threads you referred to Strong's, albeit incorrectly in order to get the definition you preferred, yet the one time you should be referring to Strong's, you don't.

It is a simple request. All this talk of death and verses of death as though they prove one's point, yet you have not defined "death".

Genesis 2:7:And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

When the soul dies - man dies.

Man became a living soul,when he is not he is obviously a dead soul in other words he would be dead.

 

[Free]

Genesis 2:7:And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

When the soul dies - man dies.

Man became a living soul,when he is not he is obviously a dead soul in other words he would be dead.

But again, this is not what I have asked.

 

[JJsaint]

But again, this is not what I have asked.

You give your explanation of death if you do not like what I posted.

 

[thethinkingrebel]

I can't help but notice how often in other threads you referred to Strong's, albeit incorrectly in order to get the definition you preferred, yet the one time you should be referring to Strong's, you don't.

It is a simple request. All this talk of death and verses of death as though they prove one's point, yet you have not defined "death".

Death is the ceasing of all function, including consciousness. This is also spiritual death as well. (this is so those who believe we have immortal spirits that go to heaven or hell when we die understand how dead I mean)

Needless to say, when you die the first death, you are as dead as dead can be, you have no awareness of time, space, you are unconscious - nonconscious.

Thats the death every conditionalist believes we all experience. This is also the death that the bible teaches, unless of course you use a bible that puts hell in place of hades/sheol.

 

[westtexas]

Needless to say, when you die the first death, you are as dead as dead can be, you have no awareness of time, space, you are unconscious - nonconscious.

Using your logic, if after the first death you are "as dead as dead can be"-how does anyone suffer the second death. Maybe your "deader than dead can be"?
Westtexas

 

[Free]

You give your explanation of death if you do not like what I posted.

If someone asks for a word to be defined, where does one look? I am asking what is the definition the word "death" as used in the NT, not an explanation of it.

 

[Elijah674]

Using your logic, if after the first death you are "as dead as dead can be"-how does anyone suffer the second death. Maybe your "deader than dead can be"?
Westtexas

Can you not find where ALL are promised an resurrection? (just not at the same time) And SECOND death surely finds these DEAD having need of an resurection to die a SECOND time!

 

[Elijah674]

Why don't you try to define death?

The Godhead's WORD does just that!
Obad 1:16 gives it defined..
'.. yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been.'

Being blotted out of existance is like it was before life, huh! Mal. 4:1-4 has this to say in documentation...
[1] For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
[2] But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
[3] And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

And more Holy Spirit Inspiration needed?? Eccl. 8 says it clearly in these Inspired WORDS..
[5] For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
[6] Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

And God say's NOTHING New under the sun? Eccl. 3:15 So there are many more documented Truth's about ones death being defined! We find in the N.N. 1 Cor. 14 that these prophets ALL agreed with the Holy Spirits documentation through them!

Lets see David teaching? Psalms 6
[5] For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Also in Psalms 115 we find more of Inspirational Truth.
[17] The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
[18] But we will bless the LORD from this time forth and for evermore. Praise the LORD.

Need more? (this is fun!)
Job gave some facts also. First notice this Truth...
Job 20
[4] Knowest thou not this of old, since man was placed upon earth,
[5] That the triumphing of the wicked is short, and the joy of the hypocrite but for a moment?
[6] Though his excellency mount up to the heavens, and his head reach unto the clouds;
[7] Yet he shall perish for ever like his own dung: they which have seen him shall say, Where is he?
[8] He shall fly away as a dream, and shall not be found: yea, he shall be chased away as a vision of the night.
[9] The eye also which saw him shall see him no more; neither shall his place any more behold him.

And we need some more from Job on that thought, huh! He has more in Job 14
[10] But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
(Holy Spirit if he has the Holy Spirit in the first place?)
[11] As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:
[12] So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
[13] O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!
[14] If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.
[15] Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.
....

[21] His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them.

And there are 'lots' more! Yet, who would change of the Rev. 17:1-5 ones?? For most of these believe satan over God (Gen. 3) as is still seen from their start to this present time.

--Elijah